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 Post subject: Preserving LD AC3 and DTS Soundtrack
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2016, 07:54 
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To Preserve the LD AC3 Soundtrack from my LD Player with APD-1 which sound card should I recommend to use on-board sound card or use dedicated sound card like Creative SB Audigy Series, Second which program should I use for record and re-done on DVD/BD movie soundtrack for replacing for fun/experiment, and Third Can you compare each version of GoldenEye between AC3 and DTS :wave: :think:
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 Post subject: Re: Preserving LD AC3 and DTS Soundtrack
PostPosted: 10 Apr 2016, 16:30 
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Technically I can't tell you for sure other than I'd like to do similar things myself.
Ac3 is able to be captured but currently no one knows how to capture the encoded dts LD stream.
Goldeneye has heavier LFE on the ac3 and prologic matrix track and the first DVD which uses the LD 5.1. This was either corrected or simply not present on the DTS LD.
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 Post subject: Re: Preserving LD AC3 and DTS Soundtrack
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2016, 20:33 
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sdraper wrote:
Technically I can't tell you for sure other than I'd like to do similar things myself.
Ac3 is able to be captured but currently no one knows how to capture the encoded dts LD stream.
Goldeneye has heavier LFE on the ac3 and prologic matrix track and the first DVD which uses the LD 5.1. This was either corrected or simply not present on the DTS LD.

Wouldn't it have to be captured in real time from the bit stream of the LD or maybe use an outboard encoder and use record in real time from analouge 6ch outputs and store on the harddrive of the pc and sync it up later on with video picture and encode it, burn it all into dts onto DVD RW or recordable bluray.

So the Dolby AC-3 has a higher LFE.1 level over the dts. Gosh always thought the LFE.1 on my dts pressing was stellar dynamic! Don't own it on any other format as its a film I only watch now and than.
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 Post subject: Re: Preserving LD AC3 and DTS Soundtrack
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2016, 09:40 
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sdraper wrote:
Goldeneye has heavier LFE on the ac3 and prologic matrix track and the first DVD which uses the LD 5.1. This was either corrected or simply not present on the DTS LD.
So what the main difference between LD 5.1, LD DTS and Special Edition DVD?
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 Post subject: Re: Preserving LD AC3 and DTS Soundtrack
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2016, 18:36 
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The LFE was mastered hot on the LD prologic and ac3. The SE DVD uses the LD ac3. The DTS is without this. It is unknown whether the hot life was a mistake or represents how he Dolby audio was theatrically but it is about 10db hotter than all other versions. The later UE and BD mixes are quieter like the DTS LD.
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 Post subject: Re: Preserving LD AC3 and DTS Soundtrack
PostPosted: 01 May 2016, 06:47 
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sdraper wrote:
Technically I can't tell you for sure other than I'd like to do similar things myself.

Well "technically" all you need is a sound card or onboard sound able to record from S/PDIF sources at 44.1/48 kHz and 16-Bit without screwing things up by performing resampling or other nonsense. Same goes for operating systems and audio editors. The chain is long and apparently there seems to be a latent desire of stupid programmers to mangle around with the bitstream all the time. :evil:

From a technical standpoint, the approach of recording PCM via S/PDIF and storing it in a file, should be well considered to be trivial. After all, it's 2016 already. :roll:

Personally, after a lot of frustration, I eventually had success with a cheap though internal (!) Terratec Aureon 5.1 PCI soundcard (around 15€ in Germany) with the CMI8738-Chipset, using "d0gbert's" custom drivers and Goldwave (setting "PCM 16 bit" in the options and Core Audio/WASAPI) under Windows 7.

sdraper wrote:
Ac3 is able to be captured but currently no one knows how to capture the encoded dts LD stream.

A bold statement considering that I already recorded several DTS LDs without any issue. Let "no one" state the following then:

Technically, you aren't capturing either AC3 or DTS but PCM audio which actually carries the former formats. All the sound card has to do is to receive the 44.1 kHz / 16 Bit PCM (DTS) or 48 kHz / 16 Bit PCM (AC3) and pass it to the driver without alteration.

Then it's up to the user to retrieve the pure AC3 or DTS stream by using tools like bsconvert (part of ac3 filter tools) or dtsconvert, stripping the unnecessary stuff data.
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 Post subject: Re: Preserving LD AC3 and DTS Soundtrack
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2017, 03:02 
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sdraper wrote:
Ac3 is able to be captured but currently no one knows how to capture the encoded dts LD stream.


DTS capture is definitely possible. See: http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/SUCCES ... e/id/15988

The truth is that editing AC3 or DTS captures to match them with other video formats is the more difficult part of the process, as it is not trivial to do without transcoding. It is doable, but very tedious, as both formats are frame based and can only be cut at frame boundaries. This limits the accuracy of any synced audio to half the frame length of the format at worst. Add to that that the LD DTS format cannot be decoded by software DTS decoders without altering the frame headers of each and every frame, and it makes true, bit-identical LD DTS tracks a rarity in fan edit/preservation/restoration community. When editing, small sections of audio may need to be re-encoded at the edit points, but the vast majority of the audio will remain bit identical to the LD. However, one must be careful that all re-encoded portions of audio are encoded using the exact same settings as the original LD track.

I have completed a preservation of the Jurassic Park LD DTS track, which is with the exception of a few milliseconds, bit identical to the LD and is synced to the current Blu Ray. I also plan to work on The Lost World as well.
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 Post subject: Re: Preserving LD AC3 and DTS Soundtrack
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2017, 02:35 
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First of all, a so-called bit-perfect capture card is needed to capture AC3 and DTS, and is highly reccomended to capture PCM as well.

AC3 could be used "as is", untouched, for DVD/BD/AVCHD project (if the video is in sync, of course), while PCM and DTS should be converted to 48KHz if used for such projects, or left untouched if used in a file format like MKV. MP4 and so on.
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 Post subject: Re: Preserving LD AC3 and DTS Soundtrack
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2017, 15:53 
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Since I use a laptop only (and therefore unable to add an internal soundcard), I had to look high and low for an external device capable of sending SPDIF to USB. I finally found the UX1 from HiFimeDIY and am VERY pleased with its performance. If anyone else is in a similar situation, I highly recommend this solution.
http://hifimediy.com/UX1-dac.
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 Post subject: Re: Preserving LD AC3 and DTS Soundtrack
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2017, 03:24 
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nems wrote:
Since I use a laptop only (and therefore unable to add an internal soundcard), I had to look high and low for an external device capable of sending SPDIF to USB.


With my DELL XPS 15 laptop slowly showing that it won't last very much longer (7 years), I was asking myself exactly the same question: how do I output to TOSLINK/Coax from a laptop that has no more optical outputs like mine did. In theory HDMI fixes that problem but my A/V Amp doesn't do HDMI, I need to split outputs: video to Projector and audio to Amp.

Mainly I need to be able to output Digital Stereo/DD/DTS from my laptop.
If this can ALSO acquire digital signal from an external source, or even record AC3 or DTS from LDs, then it's even better.

Just ordered this little baby to give it a try! If successful, then my laptop upgrade will get easier.

Julien
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 Post subject: Re: Preserving LD AC3 and DTS Soundtrack
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2017, 18:09 
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It seems like a nice product. I love the case. There are hundreds of USB things that do this though, I have to say. Adding a digital in-out to your laptop is a pretty common need. I use an Alesis IO|2 but there have to be a half dozen other external sound cards that use the same basic guts in a case painted a different color not to mention the hundreds of similar products made since I got this thing over a decade ago.
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 Post subject: Re: Preserving LD AC3 and DTS Soundtrack
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2017, 13:48 
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admin wrote:
Just ordered this little baby to give it a try! If successful, then my laptop upgrade will get easier.


Just received today and it's quite plug'n'play (no need to install drivers).

However, I can get it to output stereo over the SPDIF/Toslink but, and that's was my primary reason to buy it, I can't make it output AC3 or DTS over SPDIF in VLC. Back to my laptop internal digital out => DTS 6.1 is back.

What am I doing wrong !?! Is the box reformatting everything to stereo bitstream?

Julien
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 Post subject: Re: Preserving LD AC3 and DTS Soundtrack
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2017, 18:58 
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signofzeta wrote:
It seems like a nice product. I love the case. There are hundreds of USB things that do this though, I have to say.


If you have a list of candidates, I'm interested :-)

I will have to send back the UX1 and ask for a refund because this baby is just totally unable to pass through AC3 and DTS.
It's neat for 44.1-96Khz 16/24bit stereo replay, but it can't handle multichannel 48KHz formats.

Since my internal laptop SPDIF already handles 16/24bit for 44.1-192Khz bitrates, as well as AC3/DTS, using the UX1 would be a step backwards and I really need an external USB device to let me upgrade my laptop, loosing the internal SPDIF.

I'm back in the market then!

Julien
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 Post subject: Re: Preserving LD AC3 and DTS Soundtrack
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2017, 17:56 
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admin wrote:
I will have to send back the UX1 and ask for a refund because this baby is just totally unable to pass through AC3 and DTS.
I'm back in the market then!


Fixed that problem today by realizing that my Radiance 2144 came with a COAX OUT able to split the sound from an HDMI IN and send it back to my A/V Amp.
It supports 2ch/DD 5.1/DTS 5.1 (everything you can push on a SPDIF basically) and it's exactly what I was trying to achieve.

Case closed. Added bonus: all I need is a HDMI cable from laptop to Radiance instead of my initial plan of having video over HDMI and sound over SPDIF (splitting on the laptop) while it's much more convenient to make the split after the HDMI output.

HiFimeDIY was nice and refunded me the UX1+shipping after troubleshooting everything we could together, and finally giving up.

Julien
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