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 Post subject: Dolby Surround vs Pro Logic IIx?
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2013, 04:00 
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I recently got myself a nice cheap DVL-909 (PAL/NTSC European model) Laserdisc Player. A ton of my movies are Dolby Digital encoded and i quite like the PCM over analog sound; so i've also picked up a very cheap priced SONY MOD-RF1 Demodulator with a step down transformer.

I am wondering if AC-3 RF (Dolby Surround) is better than using Dolby Pro Logic IIx or IIz? I know Dolby Surround can be multi channel rather than upmixed like the Pro Logic but is it any better? My receiver can also do DTS:NEO6. Its a Pioneer VSX-527 which is alright and does the job for the price.

As an addendum is it better to use coaxial or optical with the demodulator? I'm currently using optical for the PCM audio as it does DTS and i thought i had a DTS disc somewhere, but i do not. If the title could be better worded or is in the wrong subforum, lmk as im not sure.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dolby Surround vs Pro Logic IIx?
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2013, 05:15 
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Dolby Digital: Discrete 5.1
Dolby Surround/Dolby Stereo/Pro Logic I: Matrixed 4.0 mixed down to Lt Rt (2ch)


Last edited by elieb on 08 Jul 2015, 23:43, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Dolby Surround vs Pro Logic IIx?
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2013, 06:28 
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Alright from what i understand, Dolby Surround IS Pro Logic its the same thing, its stereo digital with some encoding for Pro Logic so all i have to do is set my receiver to Pro Logic II right?
AC-3 eg. Dolby Digital (Dolby Digital Surround) has discrete channels of sound, from what i read its mostly later discs 1995 upwards.

Still i'd like to know if using the discrete AC-3 is really that much better.

I actually have quite a few AC-3 discs, Forest Gump and Men In Black actually say AC-3 on the back.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dolby Surround vs Pro Logic IIx?
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2013, 17:35 
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IMHO the dolby digital AC 3 is better, but that is just an opinion. Depends on what your preference is. Love the DTS discs as well. I don't think it makes any difference if you use coaxial or optical. Both get the job done.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dolby Surround vs Pro Logic IIx?
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2013, 23:29 
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hope your copy of MIB was a Pioneer. and PLII is a direct improvement over PL: surrounds no longer limited/bandpassed from 100hz to 7khz.
but alas, no true 5.1. (bass management, surrounds have some leakage, etc)


Last edited by elieb on 08 Jul 2015, 23:45, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Dolby Surround vs Pro Logic IIx?
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2013, 04:11 
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Yeah i heard DTS discs sound brilliant. My copy of Men In Black is Pioneer i checked the mint marks, its got a really nice picture.

My receiver has one optical and one coax digital, i think im better to use coax for the AC-3 so i can have the optical for PCM/DTS.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dolby Surround vs Pro Logic IIx?
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2013, 06:26 
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kierand212 wrote:
Yeah i heard DTS discs sound brilliant. My copy of Men In Black is Pioneer i checked the mint marks, its got a really nice picture.

My receiver has one optical and one coax digital, i think im better to use coax for the AC-3 so i can have the optical for PCM/DTS.

you are correct, that will be the best, or you would have to get some type of splitter.
when i had a setup i used coax for AC-3 and toslink for digital.
good luck with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Dolby Surround vs Pro Logic IIx?
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2013, 16:34 
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To be honest guys I have yet to carry our a good comparison.

I am looking at doing so when I connect my Pioneer CLD 97 which is in it's original un modded perfect new state.

I will genuinely be interesting to find out the best sound solution for this player.


Regards to all

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 Post subject: Re: Dolby Surround vs Pro Logic IIx?
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2013, 00:50 
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If done well Dolby Digital destroys Dolby Surround. There is no comparison.

It's not that Dolby Surround is garbage or anything, it's fine, it's just that Dolby Digital is extremely nice.

I only have a few DTS discs (there really aren't many good ones, sadly, mostly just late 90s Hollywood garbage most people don't even remember) but I didn't really hear anything special. Someday I'll have to get two copies of a movie so I can compare the DD and DTS versions.
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 Post subject: Re: Dolby Surround vs Pro Logic IIx?
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2013, 04:19 
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okay, 4 questions:
1) when playing back a DTS/AC-3 ld, how improved will it sound when it's upmixed to 7.1?
2) some ld's have NO lfe signal on lfe, is this normal?
3) some ld's have mono surround on AC-3, is there a list of mono surround ac-3 encoded movies
and finally.
4) how improved will PL2 be on stereo/PL encoded movies, if you selected either 5.1, with lfe as a lowpass or 7.1, simulated back surrounds?

i realize you can't play back an AC-3 movie in PL mode, with the lfe. such as the first die hard


Last edited by elieb on 08 Jul 2015, 23:46, edited 3 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Dolby Surround vs Pro Logic IIx?
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2013, 06:04 
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No, but you can play the digital audio (stereo) in dolby pro logic mode...
AC3 will sound way better ;)
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 Post subject: Re: Dolby Surround vs Pro Logic IIx?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2013, 03:30 
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IMHO, with very rare exception, everything should be played back in the mode it was created in. Play Dolby Surround movies in Dolby Pro Logic mode. DPLII is for Netflix and video games.

7.1 in homes is pointless anyway unless you have a huge home theater with ten feet of air between your seat and the rear wall. AC3/DTS discs should be played in standard mode, the only mode the director actually heard when he supervised it. That DSP garbage is for idiots and children. Adjust levels to match the movie to your room and leave it.
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 Post subject: Re: Dolby Surround vs Pro Logic IIx?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2013, 03:42 
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signofzeta wrote:
IMHO, with very rare exception, everything should be played back in the mode it was created in. Play Dolby Surround movies in Dolby Pro Logic mode. DPLII is for Netflix and video games.

7.1 in homes is pointless anyway unless you have a huge home theater with ten feet of air between your seat and the rear wall. AC3/DTS discs should be played in standard mode, the only mode the director actually heard when he supervised it. That DSP garbage is for idiots and children. Adjust levels to match the movie to your room and leave it.


nice to hear from you, zetaman. :)
i'd find pl2 movies for pl acceptable, dts neo:6 for dts ld's and dolby ex on for ex ENCODED titles.
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 Post subject: Re: Dolby Surround vs Pro Logic IIx?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2013, 20:21 
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Neo 6 isn't for DTS LDs, it's for Dolby Surround LDs.

Now that I've typed that I can see how counterintuitive it must sound...
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 Post subject: Re: Dolby Surround vs Pro Logic IIx?
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2013, 03:21 
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signofzeta wrote:
IMHO, with very rare exception, everything should be played back in the mode it was created in. Play Dolby Surround movies in Dolby Pro Logic mode. DPLII is for Netflix and video games.

7.1 in homes is pointless anyway unless you have a huge home theater with ten feet of air between your seat and the rear wall. AC3/DTS discs should be played in standard mode, the only mode the director actually heard when he supervised it. That DSP garbage is for idiots and children. Adjust levels to match the movie to your room and leave it.

THIS THIS A THOUSAND TIMES THIS!!!
If the track was mixed for a format, it should stay that way! The only thing I can and would like to see if necessary is representing a matrixed track in discrete 4.0 if people really dislike the matrix.
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 Post subject: Re: Dolby Surround vs Pro Logic IIx?
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2014, 17:26 
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I prefer STAR TREK II on the DOLBY CP500 in DOLBY STEREO. Just my 1pence. ;)

The Onkyo doesn't have the traditional Dolby pro-logic just pro-logic IIx where the other AVR I have can switch between the formats. I don't use the AVR for matrix mixes only discrete mixes.

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 Post subject: Re: Dolby Surround vs Pro Logic IIx?
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2014, 02:00 
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signofzeta wrote:
7.1 in homes is pointless anyway unless you have a huge home theater with ten feet of air between your seat and the rear wall.


Good evening and a happy healthy new year 2014 to all members and visitors.

If i may ask ... don't know if this was discussed in other threads here before ... what size/volume should a room have at least that a 7.x/9.x/x.x system
is in advantage/the lead in quality and reproduction over a 4.x/5.x system ?

I know that only a negligible quantity of movies has real 7.1 surround ... but like signofzeta said ...
signofzeta wrote:
IMHO, with very rare exception, everything should be played back in the mode it was created in.


I ask this because i think about to paint my apartment and rearrange furniture and speakers this year.
This could be the chance to upgrade from 5.1 to 7.1 but my cinema living-room is only 18.17m²(~195.49ft²). Not a real huge room :lol:
If a room is needed with maybe 50m²(538ft²) or bigger for the experience of a 7.1 mix or to hear the difference from 5.1 to 7.1
then i'll keep my 5.1 setup and don't have to buy the additional equipment.

Any advice is appreciated.


Thanks in advance
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 Post subject: Re: Dolby Surround vs Pro Logic IIx?
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2014, 03:23 
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If your listening furniture (sofa, chair, whatever) has its back up against a wall then 7.1 is pointless. If you can't get the speakers several feet behind you the system isn't going to work as designed.
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 Post subject: Re: Dolby Surround vs Pro Logic IIx?
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2014, 22:44 
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signofzeta wrote:
Neo 6 isn't for DTS LDs, it's for Dolby Surround LDs.

Now that I've typed that I can see how counterintuitive it must sound...


Actually, Neo-6, which performs better than any Dolby decoder, is for any matrixed soundtrack that follow Dolby MP encoding such as Ultra Stereo, circle Sirround, Shure SteroSurround and other generic matrix systems like MCA used for many years. Back in the late 80's there as a studio shoot out between the various decoders and Shure HTS decoder and the Aphex (Proton) were consistently preferred over Dolby Pro Logic.
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 Post subject: Re: Dolby Surround vs Pro Logic IIx?
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2014, 00:01 
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welcome back, disclord.
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