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 Post subject: Re: Squeeze LD
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2015, 21:53 
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For the moment I've only got the Pal+ LD Das Volk der Gräser, but i don't know if you can really call that squeeze,
because first 'invisible' lines have to be extracted by a decoder which then rebuilds it to an anamorphic 4:3 picture.
And that has to be stretched again to 16:9 by the tv or external processor.
I've got a Sony Pal + decoder, TVD 200, but i noticed, that without the decoder attached and the tv zoomed to 16:9 was even a tad better in picture quality.
With the decoder, the image was a bit softer and the colours were slighty a bit off or washed out.

So i guess only true full frame 4:3 squeeze ld's are arguably better, because they have got more lines compared to the same letterboxed titles and don't have to go through a torturous pal+ rebuild route.
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 Post subject: Re: Squeeze LD
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2015, 01:48 
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Good evening Svwees,

Have you ever seen the results from NTSC Squeezed transfers from Japan, for to my mind they are the ones to go for, and for a collector a must to own.

Just my own opinion of course..........I just love the Japanese way of packaging and transfers, of which cannot be beat.

I have a number of Japanese Squeezed titles and a couple more on the way.

I hope your interest in such, reveals much joy with your hard work.

Kind Regards

:wave:
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 Post subject: Re: Squeeze LD
PostPosted: 02 May 2018, 12:57 
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Firstly - apologies for resurrecting an old thread!

I've owned a DVL-909 for about 7 years now, and have slowly amassed a collection of over 200 LDs. However, I'd never managed to grab a 'squeeze' LD (a concept that has always intrigued me)

Last week i managed to get the Japanese squeeze release of 'Cliffhanger' for not too much money. Co-indcidentally, i also have the 1993 NTSC release of the film. This has made comparisons of the squeeze format really easy to do back-to-back for a given scene in the film.

I've always been less than impressed by 2.35:1 LD releases. The loss of 50% vertical resolution has always irked me. Aliasing, blurring and general loss of fidelity compared to 1.85:1 was always very noticable. Likewise, the 4:3 demos on my 'Snell and Wilcox' LD test disc blow 1.85:1 LDs out of the water. Using all 480 scan lines really does make a difference to picture quality (kinds goes without saying). I have a pan-scan version of 'Total Recall' which looks fantastic (for LD) thanks to making use all the vertical resolution LD can offer.

Back to the squeeze stuff - CliffHanger is presented in 2.35:1. Despite this, the extra resolution afforded by the squeeze formatting really does improve the image. A lot as it turns out!

Scene 4 of the NTSC 'normal' LD release of the film (introduction to the US Treasury folks - white Brinks Mat truck rolls into shot) looks bloody awful on the 1993 release. The trucks grill has artifacting/aliasing causing the straight lines of the grill to move about up and down as the truck comes into shot. As the scene pans up and away from the truck to the building, the parked cars and windows of the building all exhibit awful aliasing as the resolution miserably fails to display what it should. It's frankly terrible to watch - as are most 2.25:1 LDs that i have (same issues).

The same scene on the squeeze disc looks as good as the DVD release. Gone is all of the aliasing and blurriness. Suddenly the truck, the grill, the cars, the windows are in a much much sharper focus. No artifacts present at all. A following shot with money counting machines also look FAR superior to my original NTSC release. Far more detail is present in the image. I'd go so far as to say it's more than a 33% improvement in image quality, it really does look so much better. So much so that my gf sat and watched the first hour of the film with me, only realising is was on LD when the screen when black and the LD started to make a noise as it swapped the laser over :)

Which leads me on to asking the question: Are any of the squeeze 'films' shown in the 1.85:1 format? Because if they are, the visual quality will be another leap up from the 2.35:1 Cliffhanger squeeze release i would presume?

Also - were the squeeze releases treated to any additional mastering improvements over those original releases?

I'll see if i can post a few comparison still shots here at some point to show the increase in image quality. It's a real shame that squeeze didn't take off - it really would have given LD a jump in picture fidelity to take the fight to DVD :(
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 Post subject: Re: Squeeze LD
PostPosted: 02 May 2018, 14:46 
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andyvvc wrote:
Which leads me on to asking the question: Are any of the squeeze 'films' shown in the 1.85:1 format?


Just a few!

Fugitive, The (1993) [16904] (1.85:1)
Grumpy Old Men (1993) [16905] (1.85:1)

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 Post subject: Re: Squeeze LD
PostPosted: 02 May 2018, 16:42 
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Cheers! I already have 'The Fugitive' on normal NTSC release. Maybe that needs to be my next squeeze target :D
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 Post subject: Re: Squeeze LD
PostPosted: 18 May 2018, 08:11 
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I've gotten a little into squeeze, having picked up two discs but both were ugly as sin (Basic Instinct and Stargate).

After that, I got DTS Experience which has 4 Squeeze demos that look great, so I guess I was unlucky with the previously mentioned two movies. I've since read here that Basic Instinct is known as an ugly one.

Sorry if I'm late to the party, but can anyone speak to the PQ of Unforgiven and T2 squeeze editions? And any other squeeze editions worth it for PQ...
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 Post subject: Re: Squeeze LD
PostPosted: 22 May 2018, 05:49 
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ruinatokyo wrote:
Sorry if I'm late to the party, but can anyone speak to the PQ of Unforgiven and T2 squeeze editions? And any other squeeze editions worth it for PQ...


For T2 the Terminator 2: Judgment Day (1991) [PILF-2555] Squeeze release is clearly better than the master used for the first Squeeze Terminator 2: Judgment Day (1991) [PILF-2187] and the Hi-Vision release Terminator 2: Judgment Day (1991) [PILH-1001].

Image

ImageImage

Selling price online are following the same pattern (THX sells for more).

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 Post subject: Re: Squeeze LD
PostPosted: 10 Jun 2018, 22:30 
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I have picked up all of the squeeze feature film titles and I've discovered not all Squeeze discs are created equal.

The Japanese discs are actually coded to switch 16x9 TVs into 16x9 mode from any LD player. Well at least they do on all of my SONY TVs. My Vizio TV doesn't do it. The US titles don't contain the code an you have to manually switch the TV.
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 Post subject: Re: Squeeze LD
PostPosted: 10 Jun 2018, 22:49 
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Very interesting, I had Basic Instinct once, watched it but can't remember if it switched my TV at the time.
Can't test again as I sold it off.
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 Post subject: Re: Squeeze LD
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 02:33 
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I was unaware of Squeeze LDs until I picked up a sealed copy of Unforgiven. I'd love to take a look, but I don't want to open it. :D
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 Post subject: Re: Squeeze LD
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 02:49 
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cplusplus wrote:
I was unaware of Squeeze LDs until I picked up a sealed copy of Unforgiven. I'd love to take a look, but I don't want to open it. :D


You may as well throw it in the trash then.
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 Post subject: Re: Squeeze LD
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 03:42 
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I guess C isn't watching any LDs on a regular basis.

https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=8033
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 Post subject: Re: Squeeze LD
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 09:57 
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I remember seeing Unforgiven when I was a teenager (a long time ago folks) and thinking that just like the cowboy in the movie, this was the swan song for Clint Eastwood, a final goodbye to fans before quietly dying. Boy was I wrong, isn't the guy like 100 now and still making movies?

What a legend.

Open the LD (what are you even saving it for?? resell? ) it's a good movie and if you want to see it squeezed on LD this is your chance, you might not live as long as Clint..
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 Post subject: Re: Squeeze LD
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 11:28 
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cplusplus wrote:
I was unaware of Squeeze LDs until I picked up a sealed copy of Unforgiven. I'd love to take a look, but I don't want to open it. :D


I'd love to take a look, but I don't want to open it. - really???

For a number of reasons an interesting release.

Additional Information by admin (292) 12/09/2002
Was only available as a gift when buying a Widescreen TV Set.
Additional Information by joe (83) 02/04/2009
From the back sleeve:
'These discs are manufactured in a special 'anamorphically squeezed' format to be compatible with your new Toshiba 16:9 TV. These discs are promotional and not intended for resale.'


Perhaps pass it on to someone who will actually use the LDs in a player, that one is worth watching.

Open the thing - opening an LD set that has sat sealed for over 25 years now is quite a nice feeling or is it just me?

Cheers :thumbup: .

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 Post subject: Re: Squeeze LD
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 20:48 
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je280 wrote:
From the back sleeve:
'These discs are manufactured in a special 'anamorphically squeezed' format to be compatible with your new Toshiba 16:9 TV. These discs are promotional and not intended for resale.'[/i][/b]

Perhaps pass it on to someone who will actually use the LDs in a player, that one is worth watching.


Yes, it was manufactured in a special 'anamorphic squeeze' format, but none of the Warner Squeeze titles actually contain the 16x9 code to switch the monitor out of 4x3. The Japanese squeeze titles will automatically trigger the monitor into 16x9 mode, even on ancient players like the VP-1000.
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 Post subject: Re: Squeeze LD
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2018, 07:07 
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blam1 wrote:
The Japanese squeeze titles will automatically trigger the monitor into 16x9 mode, even on ancient players like the VP-1000.


Hi blam1,

Can you elaborate more on how this code works? Just curious as I have never heard of this before. I assume the signal must be embedded in the video signal?
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 Post subject: Re: Squeeze LD
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2018, 11:50 
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ldfan wrote:
blam1 wrote:
The Japanese squeeze titles will automatically trigger the monitor into 16x9 mode, even on ancient players like the VP-1000.


Hi blam1,

Can you elaborate more on how this code works? Just curious as I have never heard of this before. I assume the signal must be embedded in the video signal?

That would seem like a reasonable explanation. Probably works in the same way as teletext or closed captions. If the TV supports it, it can read it.
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 Post subject: Re: Squeeze LD
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2018, 20:41 
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takeshi666 wrote:
ldfan wrote:
blam1 wrote:
The Japanese squeeze titles will automatically trigger the monitor into 16x9 mode, even on ancient players like the VP-1000.


Hi blam1,

Can you elaborate more on how this code works? Just curious as I have never heard of this before. I assume the signal must be embedded in the video signal?

That would seem like a reasonable explanation. Probably works in the same way as teletext or closed captions. If the TV supports it, it can read it.


I have to assume the code is embedded in the vertical blanking interval. This is how frame numbers, chapter numbers and if the disc is CAV or CLV are encoded. I had never even noticed it until I played the squeezed "Cutthroat Island" and noticed the player on-screen display wasn't cut off at the top. Normally when watching a letterbox image on LD, you would use the TVs zoom feature to have the image fill the screen side-to-side which would cause the on-screen displays to get cut off at the top.
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 Post subject: Re: Squeeze LD
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2018, 02:12 
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rein-o wrote:
I guess C isn't watching any LDs on a regular basis.

https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=8033


Added a post :D
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 Post subject: Re: Squeeze LD
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2018, 06:49 
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DVD players also send out the 'squeeze' flag, but I've only seen that actually work when they're sending out a 480i or p signal. I have a DVD recorder that upscaled to 720 or 1080, but my TV doesn't automatically switch formats then so I leave it at 480. I also have a Pioneer DVD player which I still use since it has hacked firmware that ignores any button lockouts programmed onto discs (some discs have hidden audio tracks that can only be heard on this player). I have its component outputs hooked to my receiver when then outputs HDMI to the TV, if I let the receiver upconvert then the auto switching doesn't work but it does if I leave it unconverted at 480. Wondering now given my obsessiveness, if I got any LDs with the squeeze flag would I stop using my receiver's upconversion feature on the laserdisc player? I have 3 of the Warner squeeze discs and know to just manually set the receiver to output a stretched picture in those cases (of course the Warner Home Video opening and turtle sides play stretched as well.)
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