It is currently 25 Jun 2018, 01:03




 Page 1 of 2 [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Comparing THX and Criterion
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2016, 13:15 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 22 Nov 2011, 18:54
Posts: 705
Location: United States
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 4 times
In your opinion, which has better PQ and SQ: THX or Criterion?

I do not have a single movie in both formats so I cannot make a comparison.
_________________
LD
Pioneer CLD-D406
Sony MDP-600
CED
934-54780150, 934.54810350, SJT-200, CED-1, 3-VIP1000, VIP201P
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing THX and Criterion
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2016, 13:49 
Jedi Initiate
Jedi Initiate
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05
Posts: 2823
Location: MA USA
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 21 times
Two different unrelated things.

Criterion is a home video label which licenses film rights to put them on home video releases. Historically Laserdisc, DVD and Blu-ray (there are a couple Criterion VHS releases as well). It was a part of the Voyager Video label. Criterion line focused on independent, art-house and other significant films. Mastering engineers often sought after the best film negative/positive and audio elements to finish their home video production. Often cases they did their best to stay true to the director's intended cut, aspect ratio, color timing and audio mix. This earned them a high reputation among the purist.

THX is a home audio/video quality assurance program. George Lucas (creator of Star Wars) was annoyed that his films looked and sounded different in every theater due to different settings and gear used in every cinema. He consulted the engineer Tomlinsen Holmes for a solution. THX stands for Tomlinsen Holmes eXperience and also a homage to his early film THX1138. They came up with a large number of parameters and standards for how cinema gear(projector, speaker, amp etc...) should be setup. The equipment that met with these standards got the THX label. This way, each cinema got consistent (same quality) equipment and same settings. Later they went on and supervised film mastering, ensuring each film is mastered suitable for THX cinemas. In 90s, THX started offering THx home cinema. This enured the home cinema equipment also met with these criteria. So in short it's just a quality asurance certificate. Most high end equipment actually surpassed THX quality standards but the manufacturer didn't submit their equipment for testing (which cost money).

There are some Criterion LDs with THX certificate btw.
_________________
Wanted
HD-VMD Discs
Hi-Vision/Muse Discs Only complete/mint!
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing THX and Criterion
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2016, 15:09 
Jedi Initiate
Jedi Initiate
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05
Posts: 2823
Location: MA USA
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 21 times
THX home cinema in its early days didn't believe in the anamorphic process. Most early THX DVDs are letterboxed only. THX mastered films usually had dnr and ee applied. To be honest, back then we didn't know any better. Most reviewers praised the use of dnr and ee for cleaner and sharper video. Today they are the nemesis.

Audio wise, THX dictated a -3db curve on the upper hand to mimic speakers placed behind the cinema screen. Same master at home would be too bright.

Technically you need THX certified speakers, amp, player, and display to play THX certified discs for maximum compliance.

For example:

Alien THX/AC-3 Laserdisc
Runco LJR-II THX LD player
Denon AVP-8000 (AVP-A1 in EU) THX/AC-3 AV Pre-pep
Denon POA-8300 (POA-T1 in EU) 3ch THX Amp
Denon POA-8200 (POA-T2 in EU) 2ch THX Amp
M&K 5000 series THX speakers
Monster THX cables and interconnects
_________________
Wanted
HD-VMD Discs
Hi-Vision/Muse Discs Only complete/mint!
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing THX and Criterion
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2016, 15:38 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 22 Nov 2011, 18:54
Posts: 705
Location: United States
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 4 times
Fascinating. I thought that both THX and Criterion were aimed at improving PQ and SQ during the recording process. Instead, THX is a certification that relates to hardware and software so as to reach a certain level of quality during playback. Criterion is a process to get the best PQ and SQ by using the highest quality films/negatives when producing a video format i.e. LD, BD etc. I have only a very few (<10) of LD's with either branding so I cannot say that either one is better.

Right now, I am concentrating collecting LD's recorded in CAV such as box sets primarily.
_________________
LD
Pioneer CLD-D406
Sony MDP-600
CED
934-54780150, 934.54810350, SJT-200, CED-1, 3-VIP1000, VIP201P
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing THX and Criterion
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2016, 15:49 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 05 Jul 2011, 15:10
Posts: 902
Location: Norway
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time
The THX logo isn't necessarily a quality stamp. If I'm not mistaken, I recall the US release of Stargate had some errors with the audio track. I have replaced that one with the JP squeeze version, so don't own it anymore. The error was obvious and in my opinion should've been caught before the disc got released.
_________________
Player: Pioneer HLD-X9 and CLD-2950
My LD collection
Recently started collecting some anime on LD
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing THX and Criterion
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2016, 16:38 
Jedi Initiate
Jedi Initiate
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05
Posts: 2823
Location: MA USA
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 21 times
dumbchemist wrote:
Fascinating. I thought that both THX and Criterion were aimed at improving PQ and SQ during the recording process. Instead, THX is a certification that relates to hardware and software so as to reach a certain level of quality during playback. Criterion is a process to get the best PQ and SQ by using the highest quality films/negatives when producing a video format i.e. LD, BD etc. I have only a very few (<10) of LD's with either branding so I cannot say that either one is better.

Right now, I am concentrating collecting LD's recorded in CAV such as box sets primarily.



Correct on the THX. As Samaron pointed out, THX was supposed to mean perfect mastering but its track record isn't flawless. There has been many THX releases with issues. Today THX is irrelevant. I believe there were only 4 or 5 THX certified Blu-rays. Also as I pointed out, most manufacturers neglected getting THX certification to avoid paying fees to THX. For example, Runco LJR-II is a Panasonic LX-900U clone. Runco has the THX certification but Panasonic didn't submit their player to THX.

Criterion is NOT a process. Criterion is a studio, just like Universal home video or Warner home video. The difference is Universal and Warner make their own films and put them out to home video under their own name, Criterion licenses the home video rights from such studios to release for home video market. In order to be competitive against the big studios like Universal and Warner, Criterion generally offer the best possible version of the films. They also started including extra supplements such as commentary tracks and behind the scene features. Today Criterion is also irrelevant. Most studios follow the same practice and include extras, different cuts, different audio options.

Criterion also made mistakes a couple of times. Those issues were recalled and corrected.
_________________
Wanted
HD-VMD Discs
Hi-Vision/Muse Discs Only complete/mint!
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing THX and Criterion
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2016, 17:22 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 22 Nov 2011, 18:54
Posts: 705
Location: United States
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 4 times
Okay, so THX and Criterion are now considered irrelevant. That is fine by me. If a had to make a choice between a regular LD and a Criterion LD, the Criterion LD would win out; but, only if the cost difference is not that big. Obviously, I would not choose a $50 Criterion LD over a $20 CLV LD. With the current prices of new and used LD's being all over the place, the buyer has to do his homework before purchasing.
_________________
LD
Pioneer CLD-D406
Sony MDP-600
CED
934-54780150, 934.54810350, SJT-200, CED-1, 3-VIP1000, VIP201P
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing THX and Criterion
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2016, 17:47 
Jedi Initiate
Jedi Initiate
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05
Posts: 2823
Location: MA USA
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 21 times
True! If you aren't after anything so rare, you should be able to get any LD under $10 with patience. $50 is insane for an LD unless it is a rare title and you badly want it.

There are very few criterions that are somewhat rare. Same for THX.

It also depends on the kind of movies you like to watch. Criterion focuses on art-house, foreign and independent films. You will only see a handful mainstream films under their catalog.
_________________
Wanted
HD-VMD Discs
Hi-Vision/Muse Discs Only complete/mint!
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing THX and Criterion
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2016, 19:08 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 22 Nov 2011, 18:54
Posts: 705
Location: United States
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 4 times
substance wrote:
It also depends on the kind of movies you like to watch. Criterion focuses on art-house, foreign and independent films. You will only see a handful mainstream films under their catalog.


I don't know about the films that Criterion focuses on. I have only 3 Criterion films in my limited inventory: Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Lawrence of Arabia and Zulu. Zulu I can see as being a foreign film. Lawrence of Arabia maybe a foreign film (I am not sure). Definitely, Close Encounters is a US production.

I have no idea of how many THX LD's I have. My inventory spreadsheet does not list THX as a feature. Someday, I will update the spreadsheet whether an LD is THX or not.
_________________
LD
Pioneer CLD-D406
Sony MDP-600
CED
934-54780150, 934.54810350, SJT-200, CED-1, 3-VIP1000, VIP201P
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing THX and Criterion
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2016, 20:07 
Jedi Initiate
Jedi Initiate
User avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44
Posts: 2589
Location: United States
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 42 times
Lawrence of Arabia and Zulu are the definition of Hollywood movie.

Criterion is a company that sells other companies movies when the owners don't care to. In the LD days the vast majority of what they released had never been on video before and when it had it looked terrible. They were the heroic film snobs that saved movie nerds from terrible EP VHS copies of movies that had fallen into public domain. Naturally they wanted the best picture and sound but hey, so does everyone, right? Criterion is foremost about curation.

THX is a meaningless logo you could pay someone to let you use. It implied quality but didn't require it, as evidenced by them eventually selling THX certified VHS versions of Star Wars.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing THX and Criterion
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2016, 20:38 
Jedi Initiate
Jedi Initiate
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05
Posts: 2823
Location: MA USA
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 21 times
2001: a space odyssey*
Blade Runner*
Robocop*
Bram Stoker's Dracula*
The silence of the lambs*
Pulp Fiction*
Lawrence of Arabia*
Zulu*
Encounters of the Third Kind*
Ghostbusters*
Dr.No*
Goldfinger*
The Rock
Armageddon

Are the ones that might be of interest for mainstream audiences but the rest of the 600 or so films in their library are relatively unknown to most. Criterion currently holds licenses for only The Rock and Armageddon films in DVD form(no Blu-ray). All the above are out of print now. They all have been re issued by other studios many times.
_________________
Wanted
HD-VMD Discs
Hi-Vision/Muse Discs Only complete/mint!
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing THX and Criterion
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2016, 22:04 
Jedi Initiate
Jedi Initiate
User avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44
Posts: 2589
Location: United States
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 42 times
Yeah, another thing not mentioned is that when Criterion started out home video was only barely considered worth doing so it was no problem to license them Ghostbusters or whatever. Now studios release all that stuff themselves. Their first two releases were King Kong and Citizen Kaine. Clearly they aren't opposed to mainstream hits.

Armageddon had to be some kind of ironic hipster joke though. I still don't understand why they did that.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing THX and Criterion
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2016, 22:20 
Jedi Initiate
Jedi Initiate
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05
Posts: 2823
Location: MA USA
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 21 times
signofzeta wrote:
Yeah, another thing not mentioned is that when Criterion started out home video was only barely considered worth doing so it was no problem to license them Ghostbusters or whatever. Now studios release all that stuff themselves. Their first two releases were King Kong and Citizen Kaine. Clearly they aren't opposed to mainstream hits.

Armageddon had to be some kind of ironic hipster joke though. I still don't understand why they did that.


Criterion's founder is buddies with Michael Bay. He allowed them to do the Rock and Armageddon while they were also released from Universal at the same time.
_________________
Wanted
HD-VMD Discs
Hi-Vision/Muse Discs Only complete/mint!
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing THX and Criterion
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2016, 10:57 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 01 May 2016, 06:38
Posts: 823
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 23 times
The Rock is one of the dumbest films of all time.
_________________
Sony MDP-650, Sony MDP-355GX, Sony KVHR M36, DVDO VP-50
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing THX and Criterion
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2016, 15:02 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 22 Nov 2011, 18:54
Posts: 705
Location: United States
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 4 times
I understand about the art-house movies being in Criterion's catalog. I have The Umbrellas of Cherbourg in my collection. The dialog is in French which I can sort of understand; but, the acting definitely needs improvement. I watched the first 5 to 10 minutes of the film before stopping the player. The acting is not up to par.
_________________
LD
Pioneer CLD-D406
Sony MDP-600
CED
934-54780150, 934.54810350, SJT-200, CED-1, 3-VIP1000, VIP201P
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing THX and Criterion
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2016, 15:49 
Jedi Initiate
Jedi Initiate
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05
Posts: 2823
Location: MA USA
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 21 times
If you didn't like the umbrellas and don't know who Jaques Demy and Catherine Deneuve then most of the Criterion catalog isn't for you. As I said they are not everyone's cup of tea.
_________________
Wanted
HD-VMD Discs
Hi-Vision/Muse Discs Only complete/mint!
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing THX and Criterion
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2016, 20:37 
Jedi Initiate
Jedi Initiate
User avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44
Posts: 2589
Location: United States
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 42 times
dumbchemist wrote:
I understand about the art-house movies being in Criterion's catalog. I have The Umbrellas of Cherbourg in my collection. The dialog is in French which I can sort of understand; but, the acting definitely needs improvement. I watched the first 5 to 10 minutes of the film before stopping the player. The acting is not up to par.


Words fail me...
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing THX and Criterion
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2016, 16:45 
True fan
True fan
User avatar

Joined: 23 Jun 2013, 02:37
Posts: 492
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 1 time
The Criterion catalogue is most definitely one of the very best things to have ever hit the US home video market.

I own several Criterion LDs. The picture quality is usually really good. "Boyz N Da Hood" is a good example. It has both fantastic video and sound quality.
Each release is done with a lot of care, they have plenty of interesting extras PLUS the covers are great.
The Blu Rays are absolutely fantastic. I own the Criterion Blu Ray of The Thin Red Line. This is without any doubt one of the finest Blu Ray discs ever released.
Both video and audio are sublime. Since The Thin Red Line is probably my most favourite movie of all times owning this release is an absolute MUST HAVE.
All the previous releases by 20th Fox on DVD/Blu Ray were a joke compared to the Criterion release. The video quality was really good on the previous DVD releases
however the discs had absolutely no extras except for the trailer. Criterion gave the movie the treatment it deserved as they did with many other movies ( Le cercle rouge ( you MUST watch that one ! ),
Knife in the Water... there are just so many great Criterion releases ).

Without Criterion the home video market would be a much sadder place. Many classics would have never been rereleased with a such a great level of care and
dedication wasn't it for Criterion. They also had really great subtitles to many foreign movies. The subtitles to Romanski's "Knife in the Water", for example, were done by the great Romanski himself !


Last edited by confederate on 16 Oct 2016, 08:38, edited 1 time in total. _________________
Pioneer HLD-X0 with Sony MSC-3000 MUSE decoder.

Pioneer CLD-D925 for PAL discs.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing THX and Criterion
PostPosted: 16 Oct 2016, 07:25 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 01 May 2016, 06:38
Posts: 823
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 23 times
:clap: We love Criterion!
_________________
Sony MDP-650, Sony MDP-355GX, Sony KVHR M36, DVDO VP-50
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing THX and Criterion
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2016, 18:18 
Jedi Initiate
Jedi Initiate
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05
Posts: 2823
Location: MA USA
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 21 times
Razor buys THX

This pretty much tells you why THX today is irrelevant. It is owned by a company which makes keyboard and mice so go figure.
_________________
Wanted
HD-VMD Discs
Hi-Vision/Muse Discs Only complete/mint!
Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 2 [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to: