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 Post subject: Analog Audio on Music LD's
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2017, 07:16 
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Subj: Analog Audio on Music LD's. Have been enjoying listening to various performances using all vacuum tube mid price range Stereo system. I am curious as to the technical aspects of LD analog audio verses good quality LP's.. My ear tells me it is very close if not better. What do you think?.
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 Post subject: Re: Analog Audio on Music LD's
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2017, 10:23 
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I find analogue audio on music discs highly inferior to the digital track.
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 Post subject: Re: Analog Audio on Music LD's
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2017, 10:30 
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forper wrote:
I find analogue audio on music discs highly inferior to the digital track.


I don't think that was the question. Question is: audio merit of "LD analog tracks vs LP", apart from the obvious benefits of not having a stylus touching the surface.

At least, recently re-reading the Wikipedia entry for LaserDisc, I finally understood why some discs released into the early 90's would still have analog only (no digital tracks). The reason being that above 55mn, with standard 80's encoding, both Analog+Digital would have required to split a CLV disc on 2 sides. Decision was made at mastering to keep one side only and drop digital tracks.

But this, also, doesn't really answer the original question!

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 Post subject: Re: Analog Audio on Music LD's
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2017, 14:08 
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If Ray Charles said it is, who am I to disagree. The specs. for Laserdiscs audio are there, but like most music it depends on how well it was mastered.
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 Post subject: Re: Analog Audio on Music LD's
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2017, 16:12 
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Analog LD versus LP, no way. LP all the way.
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 Post subject: Re: Analog Audio on Music LD's
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2017, 19:05 
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As I understand it analog audio on LD is just FM, is it any different to VHS audio?

I don't really know what's possible with FM audio but in my experience the analog tracks weren't as well mastered as the digital ones. A well mastered LP trumps both LD analog and digital tracks in my opinion.

I'd be curious to know what the specs and numbers are for LD analog audio.
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 Post subject: Re: Analog Audio on Music LD's
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2017, 21:56 
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Vinyl pretty much is FM. FM is what sound is, really, so it has no inherent weekness as long as you are devoting enough bandwidth, and with analog bandwidth usually means physicality, size weight and expense. 2" studio tape is flawless, LD audio not so much...I'd compare the best analog LD audio to the best compact cassettes but with more balance problems. Potentially not bad at all, but most of the best analog LD soundtracks are probably on LDs that have even better sound on their digital tracks. With early Digital Audio LDs I wouldn't be surprised if someone found the digital tracks lacking, especially with music. I think there have been discussions here about bypassing CX and doing your own processing. That might be worth looking into for some people.

Hardcore LP listening usually involves the enjoyment of what cart/preamp/pressing/amp you have. Music usually contains much less dynamic range than a big time Hollywood movie to so it's really two different worlds. My audio and home theater setups are completely seperate. I'm super happy with both but I'm also sure they would be terrible at doing each other's jobs.
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 Post subject: Re: Analog Audio on Music LD's
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2017, 22:21 
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Is there a recording on a lp that also exists LD?
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 Post subject: Re: Analog Audio on Music LD's
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2017, 23:10 
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Thanks for that response, signofzeta. That was a really interesting read and answered a lot of things I've been puzzled with about with FM audio.
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 Post subject: Re: Analog Audio on Music LD's
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2017, 00:54 
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allenwrench wrote:
Is there a recording on a lp that also exists LD?


Using the same master? I seriously doubt it. It's possible though.
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 Post subject: Re: Analog Audio on Music LD's
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2017, 02:26 
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Maybe Starship: Knee Deep in the Hoopla (1986) [CLD-86-001]? That came to mind because the LP is a dollar bin staple. Not really something I feel like listening to that many times though.

I have this: Sonic Youth: Goo that Lives on in my Heart (1991) [PA-91-386] on LD and CD, could compare those. I'd like to check it against the LP but it starts at $40 on discogs. Like you were saying, though - probably remastered for the video.
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 Post subject: Re: Analog Audio on Music LD's
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2017, 02:59 
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allenwrench wrote:
Is there a recording on a lp that also exists LD?

Golden Earring: Live from the Twilight Zone (1984) [PA-85-139]

This same concert was released on vinyl and CD as Something Heavy Going Down.
I used to own the CD and it sounded like the same source from what was said on stage but never compared the CD to the LD
and have no way to tell if it was the same master.


:yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
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 Post subject: Re: Analog Audio on Music LD's
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2017, 18:07 
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Appreciate every ones response to my question. I have learned quite a lot.
The Beatles Anthology by Apple/Pioneer (contains 8 LDs) has stereo analog that should match their LPs.
I have not had time to compare, but would enjoy your evaluations.
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 Post subject: Re: Analog Audio on Music LD's
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2017, 19:18 
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bondden1 wrote:
Appreciate every ones response to my question. I have learned quite a lot.
The Beatles Anthology by Apple/Pioneer (contains 8 LDs) has stereo analog that should match their LPs.
I have not had time to compare, but would enjoy your evaluations.
Cheers

An analog recording in a studio will be much different than an analog recording done live on stage.
But we all knew that, right :think:

I had that set and from what i remember it was lots of partial clips and no full songs.
So whatever you think you will be getting you won't, but you will get a lot of great info and interviews from them.
And some short clips of Let It Be.


















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 Post subject: Re: Analog Audio on Music LD's
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2017, 20:38 
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The only way I think you'll find a direct LP/CD/LD comparison done with the same master is if they all came out at the same time. I assume this would be something released in 85-90. After that there is little chance that any act big enough to get something released on LD would be so half-assed as to use the same master for LP and redbook on new material. By 1990 LP was on its way out in US and Japan so new material would use a digital master with redbook in mind and an LP master being made from that.

Or maybe something from Neil Young? That's a joke...but maybe not.
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 Post subject: Re: Analog Audio on Music LD's
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2017, 21:37 
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signofzeta wrote:
Or maybe something from Neil Young? That's a joke...but maybe not.


I think you could be on to something there....
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 Post subject: Re: Analog Audio on Music LD's
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2017, 22:05 
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There's probably tons of stuff. Off the top of my head and from my own collection there's Eric Clapton unplugged, that came out on LD/CD/LP/VHS at the same time in 1992.

If you get into Japanese pop music there are tons and tons of clip LDs with the full song and the LP also available, probably from the same master.
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 Post subject: Re: Analog Audio on Music LD's
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2017, 22:18 
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forper wrote:
There's probably tons of stuff. Off the top of my head and from my own collection there's Eric Clapton unplugged, that came out on LD/CD/LP/VHS at the same time in 1992.

If you get into Japanese pop music there are tons and tons of clip LDs with the full song and the LP also available, probably from the same master.


Why don't you post about ECs unplugged to let us know.















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 Post subject: Re: Analog Audio on Music LD's
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2017, 23:12 
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Eric Clapton would for sure not have used the same master for LP as CD. In 1992 that would have been a really ghetto thing to do for one of the hugest selling artists on the planet.

To make an LP properly from a quality digital recording you must create a new master because the LP format doesn't have the dynamic range of CD. You also need to remove stereo separation from bass almost completely.

There are loads of CDs that use LP masters but probably not very many the other way around. In the punk/diy/dance world, sure, but those bands rarely have the industry clout to have an LD released of their material so...that's why this is hard.

I think that Starship album looks like the most likely thing suggest so far.
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 Post subject: Re: Analog Audio on Music LD's
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2017, 00:17 
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I played EC unplugged last night, compared analog/digital & actually the analog track is quite nice, but needs a lot more amplification from my DA50ES receiver. If I had different equipment, tube stuff etc it might be a very nice source?

Then I played Yumi Tanimura Feel Mie 91-92, again digital track is richer on my gear but analog not bad actually. Yumi really shines to me in digital..might just be preference.I might have had a bad impression of analog audio becausr last time I checked it, I was using Pioneer players which have poor audio in general.
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