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 Post subject: Insane number of limited/exclusive versions of albums
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2018, 18:43 
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The music industry has always thrived on creating a lot of product, especially back in the 80's boom when you got so many different 12", 7", picture discs, CD single, cassette single releases of the exact same tracks in different packaging.

Recently though I've seen a re-emergence of this trend with artists releasing:
standard edition CD with unique cover
HMV exclusive edition CD with different cover + 2 extra tracks
Tesco exclusive edition CD with 3 new tracks
Deluxe 2 CD edition
Deluxe 2 CD boxset edition
Deluxe 2 CD boxset signed with photo
Deluxe 2 CD + vinyl boxset
itunes digital album with exclusive extra content
Amazon digital album + exclusive video content
Super Deluxe 2 CD + cassette + vinyl + picture disc + poster + 300 page hardback book!
.
.
.
.

It seems the album has become the new single given we don't really have physical singles anymore.

Exclusive content has been scattered across nearly all these different releases so if you want all the tracks you need to buy maybe 10+ different versions of the same album (physical and digital) to access all the tracks.

This is clearly impossible to maintain unless :
a) you collect only 1 artist and don't mind filling your house
b) you have an endless supply of money

I love physical formats (especially laserdisc) but enough is enough. This endless stream of product is actually off putting if you are a collector. For the first time I'm starting to think I may actually go digital at least for some of the content since its impossible to buy 10 copies of every album for every artist I follow. I listen to music by literally thousands of artists. I wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't for the fact many of the exclusive tracks are actually better than the main album tracks.

Is this the music industry's subtle way of forcing us all to go digital?
If so it might work. Then again it might not if everyone instead downloads the content for free and buys nothing.

Just curious what others think of this current phenomenon which is going to impact how we all purchase music.
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 Post subject: Re: Insane number of limited/exclusive versions of albums
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2018, 18:56 
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I can kind of relate - there are certain artists/songs I'd love to own physical copies of, and let's say they're not some big name whose name is still remembered after all these years, so you can forget about there being any sort of a re-release, so the only place to look is the artist's heyday, which in this case is in the 80's. There's just one problem; CD singles weren't a thing until the 90's, so although you can find the full album on CD, if you prefer a different version of a song, whether it's simply an extended version (12" singles usually had those) or a remix, the only place you're gonna get it on is vinyl. Which, unlike CD, is affected by the device it's played on, so buying them in the second hand market is a bit of a crapshoot.

And in a more modern example, all this time I thought the 3- and 4-disc "deluxe" editions of Black Sabbath's Paranoid album were the same apart from the one disc, but turns out, apart from disc 1, they all have completely different contents!
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 Post subject: Re: Insane number of limited/exclusive versions of albums
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2018, 19:22 
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In the good old days it was pretty simple.
Buy the album if you're a casual listener.
Buy the album and all the singles if you are avid fan.
The singles were the delivery mechanism for bonus/exclusive content.
I love revisiting that golden era and discovering the content on 12", 7" and CD singles that I never got to hear originally.
It's truly the best experience ever as a music collector to listen to lots of these gems - yes even the dodgy B-sides are fun because the artist could literally freeform with no commercial pressure.

But today there are no physical singles - well almost. You get the occasional single on vinyl or CD still but they are very rare. They are mostly just used for promo copies. So most of this exclusive content is instead tacked on to different versions of the albums.

Now I know what some of you are thinking - why not just wait a year or two and buy all the different albums for 10p each second hand on Amazon. Wrong answer I'm afraid!.... because there are so few physical copies of most of these exclusive albums in circulation that when you go to buy them in 2 years time they will either be 'unavailable' or £200 each. That's precisely the trend I am seeing today. Even CD singles with 1 exclusive track that are only 2 years old are now selling (and I do mean selling) for £50 because they are so insanely rare. Back in the 90's when everything was over produced that would never have happened. I'm finding even 30 year CD singles are easy to track down with the internet and a good search engine.

Believe me folks, the landscape is changing rapidly. Maybe people are going back to what they remember from the good old days and feel comfortable with still - a slab of black vinyl because it actually seems the only sane choice in all this madness! I mean you know exactly what you are getting - its circular -it has 2 sides, it plays and it scratches so you need to be careful. All this other stuff is just too complicated to keep track of with over priced boxsets and limited editions that are deleted in 3 weeks time!
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 Post subject: Re: Insane number of limited/exclusive versions of albums
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2018, 21:27 
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I think also its a bit annoying to have the different versions and also different countries have different content. Its almost the same as movies. I hate that I seem to go for every versions for something especially due to the free promo stuff like posters and t-shirts. I have a tendency to collect stuff from different groups and solo artists. I do think it is more enjoyable to get singles like 45s and cassette as well as CD.
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 Post subject: Re: Insane number of limited/exclusive versions of albums
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2018, 05:59 
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In my case...

I love physical formats (otherwise I wouldn't be running this website!) but also would rather go for audio quality/durability over "special edition".

Right now this is my pecking order for buying music:

  1. Physical: SACD or BD Audio or DVD Audio
  2. File: Hi-Rez (24bit/44.1Khz to 24bit/192Khz) FLAC files -- below that a CD would be good enough
  3. Physical: Well mastered vinyl
  4. Physical: Japanese CD release (if including bonus tracks) because the paper and plastic quality are better
  5. Physical: Standard CD (over 16bit/44.1Khz FLAC files)
  6. File: Some exclusives iTunes releases

Everything else I'd skip unless the MP3/AAC version is a free download coming with the purchase or an Amazon AutoRip.

+ review forums such as AVS or Stevehoffman.tv for reviews
+ check for existing analysis on http://dr.loudness-war.info/
+ I'm not a fan of compilations or best-ofs, I respect the work an artist put in an album production to listen to the whole album in the intended track order
+ Not a big fan of recent POP music

How about other people here?

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 Post subject: Re: Insane number of limited/exclusive versions of albums
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2018, 08:59 
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Everything CD, used from charity shops or Japanese second hand. Have a few SACDs but can't afford a decent player to get the most out of them. I also have many CDs that I believe sound better than many SACDs.. I don't believe in ripping music I just put the disc in the tray and press play like the good ol days.
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 Post subject: Re: Insane number of limited/exclusive versions of albums
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2018, 09:29 
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forper wrote:
I also have many CDs that I believe sound better than many SACDs.


That will require instantiated examples with technical exhibits.

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 Post subject: Re: Insane number of limited/exclusive versions of albums
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2018, 10:39 
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I guess I don’t like many bands popular enough to have this many releases. I did get a little confused by New Order’s Music Complete which has now been re-edited twice for a total of three versions of the album since it’s 2015 release. Kinda...asking a lot guys.

I’ve also noticed that while the price of a standard CD is at its lowest now it’s also common for LEs to be stupid high priced, especially if there is an LP. I try to buy everything members of Doomtree put out but Dessa’s latest LE is $67.99 which is kinda insane. And those reissues of Pink Floyd and other classic rock honeypots can go to like $250...for a record you already bought six times!

I think the worst one of all though is the mainstream acts having LPs that cost $20-30 for no apparent reason. Indie LPs are totally affordable, sometimes as low as $10 for a full album with good art and printed materials, but if it’s Beastie Boys or Coldplay or some radio stuff like that it’s $26.99 or whatever, more than a lot of fancy pants 180g half speed mastered jazz albums I’ve bought so you know with their large sales someone is pocketing a massive profit from those Stones and Dylan reissues.
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 Post subject: Re: Insane number of limited/exclusive versions of albums
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2018, 13:57 
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admin wrote:
In my case...

Right now this is my pecking order for buying music:

  1. Physical: SACD or BD Audio or DVD Audio
  2. File: Hi-Rez (24bit/44.1Khz to 24bit/192Khz) FLAC files -- below that a CD would be good enough
  3. Physical: Well mastered vinyl
  4. Physical: Japanese CD release (if including bonus tracks) because the paper and plastic quality are better
  5. Physical: Standard CD (over 16bit/44.1Khz FLAC files)
  6. Physical: Some exclusives iTunes releases

Julien


SACD is all but dead as a format - people are offloading their SACD discs on Ebay before the bottom falls out of the market. It never caught on as a mainstream replacement for CD so the number of SACD releases is tiny. DVD audio is not convenient if you want to be able to play the discs everywhere. For example don't know too many cars with a DVD player built-in. Most new laptops don't even have one now!

So it sounds like you're going digital based on your pecking order which is precisely my point.

Last one you list is Physical - some exclusive iTunes releases.
I didn't know iTunes did any physical releases. Any examples?

Also, if you are downloading files - what 'version' of the album do you go with?
If you like albums in their entirety there isn't really a clear definition of which version is the album anymore as there are so many different versions. As I mentioned some of the best tracks are exclusive bonus tracks not included with what most people might regard as the core album. If you don't download those you're missing out. Also these bonus tracks are often not added at the end of a CD, but sometimes in the middle just to mix things up, so which version is the real album?
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 Post subject: Re: Insane number of limited/exclusive versions of albums
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2018, 16:17 
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laserdisc_fan wrote:
SACD is all but dead as a format


Japan is quite healthy still I'd say and they stopped BD Audio to re-release them on SACD instead.
Could you tell me where people offload their SACDs for cheap? I'm following auctions but they tend go up in price after selling out.

Ex: The $24.99 Blade Runner SACD is now a solid $99.99 on eBay.

The "sold, high price first" on eBay is quite scary:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=sacd&_sop=3


laserdisc_fan wrote:
For example don't know too many cars with a DVD player built-in. Most new laptops don't even have one now!


I got an external Pioneer UHD BD Player for CD/DVD/DVD-A/BD/UHD on my laptop :-)
Otherwise OPPO will handle anything, inclusing DSD SACD rips (I backup my discs).
Portability is not an issue, I listen mostly to music at home on my full speaker system.
Commuting time in Singapore is too short and owning a car here is a financial heresy.


laserdisc_fan wrote:
So it sounds like you're going digital based on your pecking order which is precisely my point.


Physical hi-res unless it's not available and the only choice is hi-res download.


laserdisc_fan wrote:
Last one you list is Physical - some exclusive iTunes releases.
I didn't know iTunes did any physical releases. Any examples?


Wrong copy/paste :-P


laserdisc_fan wrote:
Also, if you are downloading files - what 'version' of the album do you go with?


Not crazy about remasters with x2 number of tracks, more interested in the original material (linking back to the fact that I listen to the whole album as intended). I'll take them if thrown in for free.

Most recent purchases:

https://www.discogs.com/Isaac-Hayes-Hot-Buttered-Soul/release/10442065 (HDTracks)
https://www.discogs.com/Madonna-Like-A-Virgin/release/4318878 (HDTracks)
https://www.discogs.com/Madonna-True-Blue/release/4318595 (HDTracks)
https://www.discogs.com/Toto-40-Trips-Around-The-Sun/release/11574179 (HDTracks, few bonus tracks)
https://www.discogs.com/Chick-Corea-Friends-Remembering-Bud-Powell/release/8406275 (Vinyl, 1 bonus track)
https://www.discogs.com/Keith-Jarrett-Sun-Bear-Concerts/release/11206932 (SACD)
https://www.discogs.com/Various-Reservoir-Dogs-Original-Motion-Picture-Soundtrack/release/4054048 (Vinyl)
https://www.discogs.com/Angelo-Badalamenti-Music-From-Twin-Peaks/release/10311899 (Vinyl)

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 Post subject: Re: Insane number of limited/exclusive versions of albums
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2018, 18:15 
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I don't think SACD caught on in general. SACD are not cheap. I just think people are selling them now they know the format is pretty much dead. By way of example the first 3 Genesis boxsets were issued as SACD discs but only in Europe. Nobody cared in the USA so they only got normal CD releases there. By the time of the next 2 boxsets it seems even Europe didn't care so they were not issued in SACD their either. Those were probably some of the bigger sellers compared to many less known SACD titles issued.

In 1986 I remember some guy holding what was obviously his first CD up in the air in amazement outside a record shop in Belfast. I guess it was special back then because virtually no one owned a CD player or had seen a CD up close. The worlds first yuppie?..perhaps!

Fast forward 10 years to 1996 and almost everyone in the office I was working with had a personal rack of CDs and a portable CD player on their desk or were using the CD player built into their work PC! A few people had high end cassette walkmans still and there were even some younger ones with some new thing called minidisc which they had just purchased from Japan.

Fast forward another 10 years to 2006 and those racks of CDs were thick with dust with the office cleaners complaining like mad! Most people were now listening to their music on ipods. Minidisc was well and truly dead.

Fast forward another 10 years to 2016 and there isn't a CD in sight in the office. They have been thrown out or taken home and stashed in the attic. The smartphone has become the means by which most people listen to music and/or via the internet through their PC. Certainly no sign of anyone listening to music from any physical media.

So how in 2018 do we arrive at a situation where vinyl is now considered the best format to listen to music and we have not 1 but maybe 10 different versions of an album on CD? It's almost like we have come full circle again. Even the cassette is back!
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 Post subject: Re: Insane number of limited/exclusive versions of albums
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2018, 19:01 
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laserdisc_fan wrote:
Even the cassette is back!

I'm not willing to consider compact cassette as having made a full comeback until they start licensing the dolby noise reduction to new decks again.

And start selling tapes besides Type I.
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 Post subject: Re: Insane number of limited/exclusive versions of albums
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2018, 23:35 
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Oh man, my old deck has Dolby 1 and 2 or something like that.
While it does sound better it also sounds more muffled and you really don't want that, especially on the older tapes, you would rather a little hiss and the clarity of the music.

Just like vinyl, I personally would rather have a CD but I do know and understand why people want the noise.

Bring the noise LOL
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 Post subject: Re: Insane number of limited/exclusive versions of albums
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2018, 02:43 
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laserdisc_fan wrote:
A few people had high end cassette walkmans still and there were even some younger ones with some new thing called minidisc which they had just purchased from Japan.


That would have been me!

Fond memories of my beloved MZR-50, and horrible ones of the MRZ-55.

I still have a "mixed MD tape" a girl gave me on my birthday (with tons of heart stickers)... You can't beat Japan to be ahead of the technology curve in the 90's :-)

Always wondered how high-end MD decks would perform in terms of audio quality.

I kept a few MD discs for show... most people don't know what they are but movie buffs will recognize the "contraband software" Neo is selling in The Matrix or the replayed memories from Strange Days -- I spooked a few people lying about the fact that I got a real-life memory replay device and that these discs had all kind of twisted memories in them!

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Insane number of limited/exclusive versions of albums
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2018, 07:00 
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admin wrote:
forper wrote:
I also have many CDs that I believe sound better than many SACDs.


That will require instantiated examples with technical exhibits.

Julien


Well I don't rely on science and nominal data to tell me what sounds good. I rely on my good ol analogue ears..maybe it's my gear too. I have a good condition, pretty well regarded mid-range '80s CDP (Sony CDP-991) and a cheapo SACD player (Sony SCD-XE800). Good amp (Sony DA-50ES with all processing turned off) with a Sony JB980 QS MD deck cleaning up my sound acting as my DAC. All this goes to some very nice Sony SS-AL5 Mk IIs made in UK.

Anyway Asia - Asia and Mariah Carey Music Box sound better on redbook off the top of my head. My Dusty in Memphis sounds unbelievable on SACD tho so I guess it all depends on the master really but if the people working on the SACD aren't given superlative masters to work with, what's the point?
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 Post subject: Re: Insane number of limited/exclusive versions of albums
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2018, 07:02 
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admin wrote:
laserdisc_fan wrote:
SACD is all but dead as a format


Japan is quite healthy still I'd say and they stopped BD Audio to re-release them on SACD instead.




Yep, noticed the other day you can still get high-end Sony SACD decks at Japanese electronics stores like Yamada Denki
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 Post subject: Re: Insane number of limited/exclusive versions of albums
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2018, 07:05 
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laserdisc_fan wrote:
I don't think SACD caught on in general. SACD are not cheap. I just think people are selling them now they know the format is pretty much dead. By way of example the first 3 Genesis boxsets were issued as SACD discs but only in Europe. Nobody cared in the USA so they only got normal CD releases there. By the time of the next 2 boxsets it seems even Europe didn't care so they were not issued in SACD their either. Those were probably some of the bigger sellers compared to many less known SACD titles issued.

In 1986 I remember some guy holding what was obviously his first CD up in the air in amazement outside a record shop in Belfast. I guess it was special back then because virtually no one owned a CD player or had seen a CD up close. The worlds first yuppie?..perhaps!

Fast forward 10 years to 1996 and almost everyone in the office I was working with had a personal rack of CDs and a portable CD player on their desk or were using the CD player built into their work PC! A few people had high end cassette walkmans still and there were even some younger ones with some new thing called minidisc which they had just purchased from Japan.

Fast forward another 10 years to 2006 and those racks of CDs were thick with dust with the office cleaners complaining like mad! Most people were now listening to their music on ipods. Minidisc was well and truly dead.

Fast forward another 10 years to 2016 and there isn't a CD in sight in the office. They have been thrown out or taken home and stashed in the attic. The smartphone has become the means by which most people listen to music and/or via the internet through their PC. Certainly no sign of anyone listening to music from any physical media.

So how in 2018 do we arrive at a situation where vinyl is now considered the best format to listen to music and we have not 1 but maybe 10 different versions of an album on CD? It's almost like we have come full circle again. Even the cassette is back!


Good summation of the mainstream. However a lot here, including myself have had multiple MD decks and portables, Hi-MD gear (God, my MZRH-1 with EX700 IEMs was the best sonic experience of my life) and threw their ipods away in disgust when they realised MD was the truth and much better sounding compressed music done by people that understood music, not the computer dorks who created MP3.
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 Post subject: Re: Insane number of limited/exclusive versions of albums
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2018, 07:09 
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forper wrote:
admin wrote:
forper wrote:
I also have many CDs that I believe sound better than many SACDs.


That will require instantiated examples with technical exhibits.

Julien


Well I don't rely on science and nominal data to tell me what sounds good. I rely on my good ol analogue ears..maybe it's my gear too. I have a good condition, pretty well regarded mid-range '80s CDP (Sony CDP-991) and a cheapo SACD player (Sony SCD-XE800).


Maybe buy high(er) end equipment and run A/B tests before jumping to global conclusions?

"Some CD seem to sound better than SACD on my setup" is what you meant.
"Many CDs I believe sound better than many SACDs" is a rough generalization without substantiated supportive elements.

Be precise, words are important.

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 Post subject: Re: Insane number of limited/exclusive versions of albums
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2018, 08:09 
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forper wrote:
Good summation of the mainstream. However a lot here, including myself have had multiple MD decks and portables, Hi-MD gear (God, my MZRH-1 with EX700 IEMs was the best sonic experience of my life) and threw their ipods away in disgust when they realised MD was the truth and much better sounding compressed music done by people that understood music, not the computer dorks who created MP3.

ipods should be thrown away on the account of having been made by apple alone :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Insane number of limited/exclusive versions of albums
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2018, 08:27 
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admin wrote:
"Some CD seem to sound better than SACD on my setup" is what you meant.
"Many CDs I believe sound better than many SACDs" is a rough generalization without substantiated supportive elements.

Be precise, words are important.

Julien


Okay maybe but some SACDs sound significantly better to me on the same setup as well. My claim that many SACDs probably sound worse than many CDs still holds true I think.

Regarding ripping and storing and organising files of music? Not me, I put the disc in the tray and press play, just like the good ol days.
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