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rein-o
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Post subject: Re: What is CX? Posted: 06 Nov 2022, 17:08 |
Jedi Master |
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Joined: 03 May 2004, 19:05 Posts: 8117 Location: Dullaware Has thanked: 1228 times Been thanked: 851 times
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signofzeta wrote:
Verdict: people like distortion. Yep, we wouldn't have any modern guitar players without it, I doubt very strongly that anybody would want to listen to any rock song from the 70s to now without it.
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rein-o
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Post subject: Re: What is CX? Posted: 06 Nov 2022, 17:11 |
Jedi Master |
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Joined: 03 May 2004, 19:05 Posts: 8117 Location: Dullaware Has thanked: 1228 times Been thanked: 851 times
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jd213 wrote: rein-o wrote: jd213 wrote: . I did some capture tests on it a while back, and you could hear things like the disc spinning up in the audio signal.
WOW I wonder what the deal is with your setup, I've only ever heard issues when its an older disc and poorly mastered, not from spinning like a turntable ever. The same issue occurred both with a DVL-919 and an HLD-X9 directly into an ESI U86XT, so pretty sure it wasn't the setup. I'll see if I can dig up the captures again if you're interested. Yeah would love to see or hear that one. This sounds like a user error and you should never have that audio issue. Disc that comes to mind where you can hear the projector is the Japanese release of Friday the 13th, I remember it was cool at the time but thought it was garbage and sold it off.
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jd213
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Post subject: Re: What is CX? Posted: 08 Nov 2022, 21:20 |
Serious fan |
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Joined: 13 Jul 2012, 10:29 Posts: 162 Location: Japan Has thanked: 28 times Been thanked: 35 times
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Ok, here are the files, PW is my username: https://www.mediafire.com/file/b54focwd ... c.rar/fileBoth files contain the audio from when the disc starts spinning and the very beginning of the film, then jumps to the end of the film and when the disc stops spinning. edit: The X9 file might only have the beginning part, I forget. You can clearly hear the disc spinning in the beginning part since it's spinning faster.
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admin
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Post subject: Re: What is CX? Posted: 26 Feb 2023, 05:33 |
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Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 23:37 Posts: 4565 Location: Tokyo Has thanked: 298 times Been thanked: 1159 times
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kt7000 wrote: What determines this? The disc TOC (table of contents) will tell the player if CX should (stereo) or shouldn't (mono or mixed channels) be turned on. Julien
_________________ HARDWARE DATABASE HLD-X0/9 LD-S9 OPPO 105/205 SL-1200G LDD-1 MSC-4000 R2144 PONTUS II C45 MC257
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csidresal
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Post subject: Re: What is CX? Posted: 15 Jun 2023, 22:51 |
Third post and above |
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Joined: 28 Dec 2020, 08:30 Posts: 4 Location: United States Has thanked: 0 time Been thanked: 4 times
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I'll just add a couple thins from my experience and some that are anecdotal so take them for what they're worth.
As far as manually turning CX off. In my experience from a couple Pioneer players I've owned including a CLD-D503, you have "old" discs pre-1985 mostly that are Analog only and then you have discs that have Digital and Analog soundtracks. So the D/A button on the remote will turn CX on and off only on the old Analog only. Discs. If the discs has Digital and Analog it just switch between Analog and Digital. If you have an old Analog only disc give it a try it's fun to hear what CX actually does. Definitely takes away a lot of noise.
As far as Analog being "better" than Digital, yeah obviously not spec wise. Digital/CD 'can be' amazing! But look at Duran Duran was PA-83-044, Analog only. The audio on that disc is from the 1/2" master that used a DBX 150 I believe which basically doubled the dynamic range to a total of 115db something that digital systems were just starting to be able to do. According to the person on LDDB he also agrees the CD was inferior. (Later CD re-releases were improved of course) But it is possible the Analog tracks could have a better transfer than what is on digital.
Same with some of the Police/Sting discs I have. Some of the analog tracks for me sound amazing. I know Digital/CD was notorious for a time for having bad digital transfers that compressed everything from the original master recordings. Not that much of an expert the analog tracks on some of the videos you can hear more of the high notes of the guitar and high hats. At least seems like it when I've played around switching back and forth. Again, that doesn't mean I believe Analog is better, no I firmly believe Digital/CD is basically overkill almost for what my ears. But it comes down to the who, how or where the transfer came from. For movies I would guess Analog is a downgrade most times, but for older movies where the original soundtrack was analog? I don't know. Again, depends if they over compressed the digital version and maybe just dumped the original analog. Maybe the more untouched analog could sound better in some ways? I'm sure they're are people that know a lot about sound tracks and things, which I don't but I do find interesting.
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ldfan
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Post subject: Re: What is CX? Posted: 16 Jun 2023, 08:12 |
Hardcore fan |
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Joined: 28 Jun 2014, 05:59 Posts: 1462 Location: San Francisco, CA USA Has thanked: 426 times Been thanked: 537 times
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csidresal wrote: As far as manually turning CX off. In my experience from a couple Pioneer players I've owned including a CLD-D503, you have "old" discs pre-1985 mostly that are Analog only and then you have discs that have Digital and Analog soundtracks. So the D/A button on the remote will turn CX on and off only on the old Analog only. Discs.
True for the most part but not entirely. I'm not sure when the CX flag was embedded regularly on LD software to control when CX is activated or not but of the titles I have owned with no flag they were both from 1982. These are the two. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982) [LV 1180]Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, The (1977) [25 AS]And of these two discs, they were also the only discs I owned where only "minutes" were embedded on the run time so if I searched to a specific point on the disc the player limited me to full minutes in time. It should also be noted that some disc producers continued to press discs w/ no digital sound up to at least 1989 based on one title I own that came out in that time period (and it was set-up w/ the auto CX flag). csidresal wrote: If you have an old Analog only disc give it a try it's fun to hear what CX actually does. Definitely takes away a lot of noise. Not sure I would call that noise it's taking away as if we're comparing it to tape hiss and Dolby B noise reduction for tape. CX was developed to improve the sound of analog audio but actually used to also fix an issue w/ interference w/ the video signal. This article better explains it than myself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CX_(noise_reduction) scroll down to the section called "Use on LaserDisc and CED VideoDisc". csidresal wrote: As far as Analog being "better" than Digital, yeah obviously not spec wise. Digital/CD 'can be' amazing! But look at Duran Duran was PA-83-044, Analog only. The audio on that disc is from the 1/2" master that used a DBX 150 I believe which basically doubled the dynamic range to a total of 115db something that digital systems were just starting to be able to do. According to the person on LDDB he also agrees the CD was inferior. (Later CD re-releases were improved of course) But it is possible the Analog tracks could have a better transfer than what is on digital. Honestly speaking, of the few times that I have switched between Analog and Digital, I could barely hear a difference between the two tracks especially if they were sourced from the same master. I assume the Digital track would always be better and it can actually improve depending on what D/A Converter set-up you are using (if using the S/PDIF outputs). Also, I do find that players built between 1988 and 1990 that use multi-bit DAC's have great digital sound. csidresal wrote: Same with some of the Police/Sting discs I have. Some of the analog tracks for me sound amazing. I know Digital/CD was notorious for a time for having bad digital transfers that compressed everything from the original master recordings. Not that much of an expert the analog tracks on some of the videos you can hear more of the high notes of the guitar and high hats. At least seems like it when I've played around switching back and forth. Again, that doesn't mean I believe Analog is better, no I firmly believe Digital/CD is basically overkill almost for what my ears. But it comes down to the who, how or where the transfer came from. For movies I would guess Analog is a downgrade most times, but for older movies where the original soundtrack was analog? I don't know. Again, depends if they over compressed the digital version and maybe just dumped the original analog. Maybe the more untouched analog could sound better in some ways? I'm sure they're are people that know a lot about sound tracks and things, which I don't but I do find interesting. I have no real opinion about this since I haven't done an A/B tests on any level. However, I can agree that in the early days of PCM (especially CD), record producers were still trying to figure out how to master analog to digital and some early releases were just bad (Whitney Houston's debut album was one of them as it was recorded really low for some odd reason).
Last edited by ldfan on 16 Jun 2023, 20:50, edited 3 times in total.
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