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 Post subject: MSB LS-1 Platinum WOW
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2012, 20:14 
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I saw this at ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/110947825562?ss ... 1497.l2649

What is this machine inside? I was checking some info.

It was sold an LS-1 GOLD at ebay couple of months ago (seems like a RUnco LJRII), but this one is Platinum.

According to MSB only 2 Platinum units were even made (1997) and 3 GOLD.

Anyone knows this machine? What has inside?
  
 
 Post subject: Re: MSB LS-1 Platinum WOW
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2012, 21:21 
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I'm guessing it's still like the LS-1 Gold, which is still a Runco LJR II from what I gather, but with extra digital outputs like the Runco LJR II Pro Transport (the Basic only had 1 digital output and the AC-3 RF.)

The seller doesn't realize that the LS-1, like the Runco (save for their D/A model) is purely a "transport" so there's no internal D/A convertor. Thus he wouldn't get CD audio from the RCA outputs.
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 Post subject: Re: MSB LS-1 Platinum WOW
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2012, 21:24 
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Yeah, looks like it has one of those 3-prong pro audio digital outputs like the Runco LJR II Pro Transport--can't remember the name of those connections.

Image
(top left of the unit has that connection)
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 Post subject: Re: MSB LS-1 Platinum WOW
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2012, 22:14 
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So the Player is useless to player laserdiscs? The owner will have to use external DAC to play movies right?
THe RUnco LJRII Pro is only Transport also?
  
 
 Post subject: Re: MSB LS-1 Platinum WOW
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2012, 23:31 
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In a seriousness, if you have a player this fancy you damned well better have at least a surround receiver with digital ins on it.
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 Post subject: Re: MSB LS-1 Platinum WOW
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2012, 16:37 
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loius_steven wrote:
So the Player is useless to player laserdiscs? The owner will have to use external DAC to play movies right?
THe RUnco LJRII Pro is only Transport also?

If you don't have a receiver with digital inputs or an outboard DAC, then the only sound you will get from Laserdisc through the L and R outputs on the player will be the analog soundtracks.

And yes, the Runco LJR II Basic and Pro (it might be called "Studio" rather than "Pro", I can't quite remember) are only transports--no onboard D/A convertor. But the Runco LJR II/DA has an onboard DAC.

I have some pictures of that model. When I get home I'll share them here.
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 Post subject: Re: MSB LS-1 Platinum WOW
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2012, 19:41 
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elahrairrah wrote:
Yeah, looks like it has one of those 3-prong pro audio digital outputs like the Runco LJR II Pro Transport--can't remember the name of those connections.

Image
(top left of the unit has that connection)



would those be XLR? like wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLR_connector

that would be damn expensive and useless if one doesn't have surround.
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 Post subject: Re: MSB LS-1 Platinum WOW
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2012, 20:07 
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So here's the Runco LJR II D/A player that I used to have

Image

There's nothing on the front bezel to indicate it being any different from the Basic or Studio, but on the back . . .

Image

. . . you'll notice the bottom there has the DAC

Image

If the Runco doesn't have that, it's just a transport.

I would say the same for that MSB LS-1 Gold and Platinum.

You just have a few more options to connect it to an outboard DAC.

Some of the more seasoned electrical folks on the site may confirm this or not, but with having less electrical components inside the player, is there is a possibility of less interference, thus a better analog picture for the player?
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 Post subject: Re: MSB LS-1 Platinum WOW
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2012, 21:52 
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The MSB player shown above is a Panasonic LX-600 inside, NOT the LX-900 like the Runco LJR's used, so it has no digital effects, no digital field noise reduction (which, unlike the Pioneer DNR, works very well without any motion blur or softening of the high frequencies) and a slightly inferior 2D Logical Comb Filter. Like the 900 though, it has a sharper picture than the equivalent Pioneer's with slightly - and I do mean slightly, more chroma noise, but you have to compare it to a CLD-97 to see better performance - its tracking servos are all fully digital as is all the video signal processing. I don't know why, but the Panasonic's have much better analog audio than Pioneer and seem to be less affected by laser rots audible ticks and pops when playing analog discs. Unlike the 900 based Runco, the MSB has NO changes to the video circuits since the LX-600 it was based on doesn't have the APL problem that many 900's suffered from. The MSB is more about being a high end low-jitter CD player than a videophile LaserDisc player - its lack of digital noise reduction precluded it from getting THX certification, since that was a requirement for THX approval. The only other player, besides the Runco, to get THX certified was the EAD TheaterVision/Faroudja LD1000 (they are EXACTLY the same player), but both EAD and Faroudja chose not to go ahead with THX licensing after gaining approval due to the high per-player royalty THX required. Although the top looks like its plastic on the MSB, it's actually wood with rounded corners and a glossy finish. MSB sold it to sit on top of their outboard DAC that was only an inch or so high and made out of their EMA Isolation Plate to match the size of the player exactly. Although its probably one of the most beautiful players sold, it's basic performance is no better than the stock OEM LX-600, so unless you are trying to collect the oddball players like it, the 600 or especially the 900, is a far wiser purchase. Duncan can add AC-3 RF out to a stock 600 or 900 for a very reasonable price to make the player capable of all LaserDisc sound formats.
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 Post subject: Re: MSB LS-1 Platinum WOW
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2012, 02:57 
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Just so everyone is clear, the MSB shown above is NOT the equivalent of the Runco LJR I or II. The MSB is based on the mid-line LX-600 Panasonic and doesn't have digital effects or digital
Field noise reduction like the 900. MSB used the step-down player from the LX-900 used in the Runco to create their model, so it carried almost the same retail price as the Runco but had fewer features and performance. It didn't have AC-3 RF either. MSB made many different models based on the LX-900, LX-600 and LX-H670 players, but only the 900 used in the Runco was the full featured unit. One look at the remote and front panel tells you it's not the same player as the Runco since its missing the DFNR button on the front and jog/shuttle dial on the remote. EAD, Faroudja and Theta sold more units individually and combined than MSB did under their own name, although the Runco sold well due to its THX badge. The EAD TheaterVision and it's companion TheaterMaster decoder were adopted by Dolby and many other studios as the reference players used to check discs and AC-3 encoding. That later stopped when THX logged formal complaints with the studio heads. The fact that EAD wouldn't play THX licensing fees for their TheaterVision player really rubbed THX the wrong way. The Faroudja clone of the EAD became the reference standard player after that. I got all that info on deep background from those in the industry at the time.
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 Post subject: Re: MSB LS-1 Platinum WOW
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2012, 08:45 
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I don't mean to tell you are not right, but the LS-2 was based on the Panasonic LX600, not the LS-1.
This LS-1 YES, was based on the LX900, cofirmed to me by Mr. Larry from MSB.
And to be exact 3 units of these were made, no more, and he owns one.
He also told me this Transport is very High End, and with the proper DAC it delivers an outstanding sound quality. The picture of course, it's fantastic for Laserdisc as the LX900 is.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: MSB LS-1 Platinum WOW
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2012, 12:17 
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cararte wrote:
I don't mean to tell you are not right, but the LS-2 was based on the Panasonic LX600, not the LS-1.
This LS-1 YES, was based on the LX900, cofirmed to me by Mr. Larry from MSB.
And to be exact 3 units of these were made, no more, and he owns one.
He also told me this Transport is very High End, and with the proper DAC it delivers an outstanding sound quality. The picture of course, it's fantastic for Laserdisc as the LX900 is.


Look at the front panel of the LS1 and it's remote and you'll see that it's the LX-600 and not the 900. There is no button for digital noise reduction, which MSB's 900-based players had and the remote is the shuttle dial only remote from the 600. Larry told me that they had many problems with the 900's CD playback when making the Runco (it wouldn't recognize CD's with consistency) so they switched to the 600 and LX-H670u for their own models. The only MSB transport that used the 900 was the short lived LS-1 (without the Platinum or Gold designation) it also has AC-3 RF which the LS1 Platinum does not seem to have. MSB's models were confusing and I don't think they even fully remember which was which.
Here are some pics of the LS1 and then the early LS2 based on the LX-H670 - notice that the LS1 has the digital noise reduction button on the lower right near the chapter skip buttons:
LS1 with AC-3 based on 900:
Image
Image
Image

Early LS2 based on LX-H670:
Image

Notice on all the players that the back panel for the jacks is just a wooden block. The players were really kluged together. I have one pic of an LS1 Platinum with AC-3 added as an afterthought.

These players were made mainly as audiophile CD players - the EAD TheaterVision's reclocked digital output has less than 10 picoseconds jitter, which was the lowest in the industry. Video came second, although on most players other than the early Theta's, the companies did do mods to the video to improve it. The EAD TheaterVision used an upgraded 3D comb filter instead of the stock 3D NEC comb filter used in the CLD-99. Greg Rodgers in Widescreen Review - who had tested the stock CLD-99 before - called the EAD/Faroudja the best LaserDisc player in existence, and that was comparing it with the CLD-97 and Runco LJR II. I don't think he was aware of the Japanese Hi-Vision players at the time though.
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 Post subject: Re: MSB LS-1 Platinum WOW
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2012, 14:06 
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Agree, but the one at ebay auction has the LX900 mechanism. The remote has the jogshuttle.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: MSB LS-1 Platinum WOW
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2012, 16:28 
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cararte wrote:
Agree, but the one at ebay auction has the LX900 mechanism. The remote has the jogshuttle.

hey, you are back.
did you refund that other guy? i see that you come back once in awhile :think:
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 Post subject: Re: MSB LS-1 Platinum WOW
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2012, 19:29 
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I don't need to run from anybody.
Rein case is solving, i don't steel nobodys money ok?

If you sold anything to anybody and that person damages the player and then says it was you, it's easy to say.
I bet you would't pay one single dollar from your pocket, but i am solving the problem. It's easy to talk when we are not in the situation.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: MSB LS-1 Platinum WOW
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2012, 19:30 
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cararte wrote:
Agree, but the one at ebay auction has the LX900 mechanism. The remote has the jogshuttle.


No, it doesn't as the pictures clearly show, and you repeating it won't make it so. It has the shuttle dial remote of the 600, NOT the jog/shuttle dial remote like the 900. Anyone can look at that remote in the auction and see that it is a shuttle dial only with no jog capability - nor does the remote have the still picture button or art button since the 600 has no digital memory for CLV effects and special playback modes that the 900 has. Nor does the player have the DNR button on the front panel since the 600 doesn't have adjustable digital field noise reduction. The LS1 Platinum is an LX-600 based player. The remote is NOT the remote that comes with the 900 based players. Again, the LS1 Platinum is based on the LX-600. It doesn't even have AC-3 RF. I own 2 LX-900's so I know what their remotes look like and MSB always used the matching remote with each player, so it's easy to see the LS1 Platinum is a 600 underneath the false front panel and wooden top and sides.
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 Post subject: Re: MSB LS-1 Platinum WOW
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2012, 19:34 
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cararte wrote:
I don't need to run from anybody.
Rein case is solving, i don't steel nobodys money ok?

If you sold anything to anybody and that person damages the player and then says it was you, it's easy to say.
I bet you would't pay one single dollar from your pocket, but i am solving the problem. It's easy to talk when we are not in the situation.


Blah, blah, blah :yawn: :problem:
I've been in plenty of situations where it wasn't my fault and I either gave $$$ back or satisfied the situation at MY expense.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: MSB LS-1 Platinum WOW
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2012, 20:28 
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cararte wrote:
I don't need to run from anybody.
Rein case is solving, i don't steel nobodys money ok?

If you sold anything to anybody and that person damages the player and then says it was you, it's easy to say.
I bet you would't pay one single dollar from your pocket, but i am solving the problem. It's easy to talk when we are not in the situation.

it's also easy to talk when you live in another country :lol:

oh, that's right you still use stones for communication, that's why you are still
solving the problem :lol: :lol: :lol:

i guess the insurance company had to decode your bangs on other rocks :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: MSB LS-1 Platinum WOW
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2012, 20:33 
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I'm just glad he didn't get the womderful EAD TheaterVision player that I now own.
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 Post subject: Re: MSB LS-1 Platinum WOW
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2012, 20:40 
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rein-o wrote:
cararte wrote:
I don't need to run from anybody.
Rein case is solving, i don't steel nobodys money ok?

If you sold anything to anybody and that person damages the player and then says it was you, it's easy to say.
I bet you would't pay one single dollar from your pocket, but i am solving the problem. It's easy to talk when we are not in the situation.

it's also easy to talk when you live in another country :lol:

oh, that's right you still use stones for communication, that's why you are still
solving the problem :lol: :lol: :lol:

i guess the insurance company had to decode your bangs on other rocks :lol:


I guess if you bang the stones in the correct order you're able to post to forums :think: :crazy: :lol:
  
 
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