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 Post subject: I can confirm that a standard LG 37" LED works
PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012, 04:07 
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My Father purchased a LG 37" for the bedroom and he wanted to test the PIONEER ELITE DVL-91, in Cinema mode it looks great, and I was very astounding at the LD playback of the Rising Sun!! We fed just the usual composite yellow(video) red/white(right/left audio in on the back.

Anyways the playback is great, blacks, contrasts are all right their, must be the back lighting of the LED chip. As the LCD in the living room doesn't quite cut it, my 62n DLP with the 91 elite plays great with the cinema mode on.

So these new findings well have to try the older 95,97,lds2,lds1 models and the 99, 79/703/704 and see what the results are.

I by no means a electrical engineer, and Im going by what looks best to my eyes after over of decade viewing..

Please chime on your LED EXPERIENCES AS WELL AND WHAT SETTINGS AND MOVIES, AS MOVIE PRESSING PLAY A BIG PART INTO THIS..


Cheers. Grasshopper, LD lives on for another year at least as technology is changing quickly. (Just a Honest Heads Up)
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 Post subject: Re: I can confirm that a standard LG 37" LED works
PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012, 06:36 
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The LED technology allows for better contrast than the LCD, particularly the backlit ones vs the edgelit ones due to a function called "local dimming" which can increase contrast level by turning off specific LEDs which increases the perceived blackness of that area of the picture. The LEDs are getting closer to the level of the kind of picture quality, contrast and sharpness that was the hallmark of the late model HD CRTs like the Sony XBR series.

And why not? The screen technology is not all that different in end result. In one we have screen pixels glowing upon being struck by a cathode ray beam, and in the other we have screen pixels glowing from a backlit LED source. I recall a college class in TV and film technology in 1979 where the instructor described the future possibilities of large screen technology, and the description was basically what is now the LED TV set. I also remember the typical sophomoric frat and sorority types laughing at it, the same type of nitwits who believed the world was flat for as long as possible.

I have a Sharp Aquos LCD that still has very good reproduction of vintage formats even though it is LCD. Now I have to decide if I want to go with a better grade Aquos eventually or the Pioneer Kuro I've always wanted to try. I did not like the way the laserdisc looked on a friend's plasma set at all.
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 Post subject: Re: I can confirm that a standard LG 37" LED works
PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012, 07:44 
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There are no LED TVs. I don't know why people and OEMs insist on differentiating between LCDs backlit by fluorescents as "LCD" and ones backlit by LEDs as "LED". They are all LCD.

I also don't really know why this drives me crazy but it really does.

Edit: removed the stupid.


Last edited by signofzeta on 29 Dec 2012, 07:16, edited 1 time in total. _________________
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 Post subject: Re: I can confirm that a standard LG 37" LED works
PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012, 07:49 
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signofzeta wrote:
There are no LED TVs. I don't know why people and OEMs insist on differentiating between LCDs backlit by fluorescents as "LCD" and ones backlit by LEDs as "LED". They are all LED.

I also don't really know why this drives me crazy but it really does.

Well, I hate to be that guy, but there are actual LED TVs. (Of course an individual's not buying this for their home or anything)
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 Post subject: Re: I can confirm that a standard LG 37" LED works
PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012, 23:11 
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By "They are all LED" I think you mean "They are all LCD"
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 Post subject: Re: I can confirm that a standard LG 37" LED works
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2012, 03:03 
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Pioneer Plasmas are still the ones to beat. Panasonic and samsung plasmas already caught or surpassed Pioneer plasmas in many aspect but still dealing with degrading black lever problems. with the new regulations on plasma tvs, newer models will be worst than older ones. speaking only picture quality, LCD/LED backlit tvs are not on par with plasmas. 720p plasmas tvs do not count as they are not true 720p displays. these are 768 pixel by 1024(4:3 ratio) with none-square pixels.

I work for a highend a/v retail store. I get to see/install pretty much every model tv/projector.
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 Post subject: Re: I can confirm that a standard LG 37" LED works
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2012, 04:42 
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substance wrote:
Pioneer Plasmas are still the ones to beat. Panasonic and samsung plasmas already caught or surpassed Pioneer plasmas in many aspect but still dealing with degrading black lever problems. with the new regulations on plasma tvs, newer models will be worst than older ones. speaking only picture quality, LCD/LED backlit tvs are not on par with plasmas. 720p plasmas tvs do not count as they are not true 720p displays. these are 768 pixel by 1024(4:3 ratio) with none-square pixels.

I work for a highend a/v retail store. I get to see/install pretty much every model tv/projector.


What are the new regulations on plasmas? And what's the degrading black level problem? I ask because we're planning to buy a 50 or 55 inch set in a month or so.
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 Post subject: Re: I can confirm that a standard LG 37" LED works
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2012, 04:58 
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disclord wrote:
substance wrote:
Pioneer Plasmas are still the ones to beat. Panasonic and samsung plasmas already caught or surpassed Pioneer plasmas in many aspect but still dealing with degrading black lever problems. with the new regulations on plasma tvs, newer models will be worst than older ones. speaking only picture quality, LCD/LED backlit tvs are not on par with plasmas. 720p plasmas tvs do not count as they are not true 720p displays. these are 768 pixel by 1024(4:3 ratio) with none-square pixels.

I work for a highend a/v retail store. I get to see/install pretty much every model tv/projector.


What are the new regulations on plasmas? And what's the degrading black level problem? I ask because we're planning to buy a 50 or 55 inch set in a month or so.


I could just be going crazy, but didn't you say once you had a 52" Toshiba LCD?

Also, here's a thing on C-net about that black level problem.
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 Post subject: Re: I can confirm that a standard LG 37" LED works
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2012, 05:09 
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naiaru wrote:
disclord wrote:
substance wrote:
Pioneer Plasmas are still the ones to beat. Panasonic and samsung plasmas already caught or surpassed Pioneer plasmas in many aspect but still dealing with degrading black lever problems. with the new regulations on plasma tvs, newer models will be worst than older ones. speaking only picture quality, LCD/LED backlit tvs are not on par with plasmas. 720p plasmas tvs do not count as they are not true 720p displays. these are 768 pixel by 1024(4:3 ratio) with none-square pixels.

I work for a highend a/v retail store. I get to see/install pretty much every model tv/projector.


What are the new regulations on plasmas? And what's the degrading black level problem? I ask because we're planning to buy a 50 or 55 inch set in a month or so.


I could just be going crazy, but didn't you say once you had a 52" Toshiba LCD?

Also, here's a thing on C-net about that black level problem.


Nope, you are not crazy, our set is 50 or 52 inches - I can never remember which - but we want 3D now. My partner needs a larger 2nd monitor for his magazine editing work, so instead of getting him a new monitor, we'll buy a 3D one for the home theater and he'll use the current Toshiba LCD we have now.
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 Post subject: Re: I can confirm that a standard LG 37" LED works
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2012, 07:07 
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signofzeta wrote:
There are no LED TVs. I don't know why people and OEMs insist on differentiating between LCDs backlit by fluorescents as "LCD" and ones backlit by LEDs as "LED". They are all LED.

I also don't really know why this drives me crazy but it really does.


It shouldn't. It's just a shortened acronym and a way of being able to use the terminology to differentiate bewtween the two, that's all. I suppose it can be said the other, longer way, but wouldn't that be tedious after a few sentences?
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 Post subject: Re: I can confirm that a standard LG 37" LED works
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2012, 07:23 
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rixrex wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
There are no LED TVs. I don't know why people and OEMs insist on differentiating between LCDs backlit by fluorescents as "LCD" and ones backlit by LEDs as "LED". They are all LED.

I also don't really know why this drives me crazy but it really does.


It shouldn't. It's just a shortened acronym and a way of being able to use the terminology to differentiate bewtween the two, that's all. I suppose it can be said the other, longer way, but wouldn't that be tedious after a few sentences?



If simplicity is the objective, why not just call them all LCD? The key component is the LCD, that's what your actually looking at. The only thing that has changed is the way it's backit, and frankly the most significant thing about that, about moving to LED from fluorescents, is the fact that LEDs last longer and used less power (in theory, we'll see).

Regardless, LCDs still don't look as good as CRTs and plasmas. Consumer grade OLED displays are like, what, 3 years away? That's when we'll have something worth getting exited about.
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 Post subject: Re: I can confirm that a standard LG 37" LED works
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2012, 16:11 
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I have yet to see a LCD that can display old SD material without making it look like s**t, though I'm sure there are lcd models that can handle old retro consoles and laserdisc in a good way, but they are few. I have usually taken with me my LD player and/or Super famicom (SNES) to the store to check how it would look when buying a new TV, and the Plasmas have always won that competition easily. The newer plasmas from panasonic have caught up to KUROs blacks, but they don't have all the noise reduction, the variable 3d y/c-separation and so on that the KURO have. I'm sure all of the low def features of the kuro is one of the reasons why it became so expensive, and let's face it; newer televisions aren't made to make low definition material look good, they are all trying to be best at what we have now, not what we used 10 years ago :) CRT will always be the best choice for old interlaced material, but plasmas, and especially the kuros do the best job in my honest opinion.
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 Post subject: Re: I can confirm that a standard LG 37" LED works
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2012, 20:14 
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cpix wrote:
I have yet to see a LCD that can display old SD material without making it look like s**t, though I'm sure there are lcd models that can handle old retro consoles and laserdisc in a good way, but they are few. I have usually taken with me my LD player and/or Super famicom (SNES) to the store to check how it would look when buying a new TV, and the Plasmas have always won that competition easily. The newer plasmas from panasonic have caught up to KUROs blacks, but they don't have all the noise reduction, the variable 3d y/c-separation and so on that the KURO have. I'm sure all of the low def features of the kuro is one of the reasons why it became so expensive, and let's face it; newer televisions aren't made to make low definition material look good, they are all trying to be best at what we have now, not what we used 10 years ago :) CRT will always be the best choice for old interlaced material, but plasmas, and especially the kuros do the best job in my honest opinion.

Well, there's your problem. You're letting the TVs do all the heavy lifting. LCDs can be pretty good (sans the less-than-desirable-black-level) if you feed it it's native resolution and/or it has great video processing (IMHO). I use an iScan HD to scale LD and my older consoles that output RGBs (there's a tad bit of lag, though I mostly play RPGs) and it's great, I'd say (using a Panasonic TC-L42U30).
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 Post subject: Re: I can confirm that a standard LG 37" LED works
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2012, 20:25 
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naiaru wrote:
cpix wrote:
I have yet to see a LCD that can display old SD material without making it look like s**t, though I'm sure there are lcd models that can handle old retro consoles and laserdisc in a good way, but they are few. I have usually taken with me my LD player and/or Super famicom (SNES) to the store to check how it would look when buying a new TV, and the Plasmas have always won that competition easily. The newer plasmas from panasonic have caught up to KUROs blacks, but they don't have all the noise reduction, the variable 3d y/c-separation and so on that the KURO have. I'm sure all of the low def features of the kuro is one of the reasons why it became so expensive, and let's face it; newer televisions aren't made to make low definition material look good, they are all trying to be best at what we have now, not what we used 10 years ago :) CRT will always be the best choice for old interlaced material, but plasmas, and especially the kuros do the best job in my honest opinion.

Well, there's your problem. You're letting the TVs do all the heavy lifting. LCDs can be pretty good (sans the less-than-desirable-black-level) if you feed it it's native resolution and/or it has great video processing (IMHO). I use an iScan HD to scale LD and my older consoles that output RGBs (there's a tad bit of lag, though I mostly play RPGs) and it's great, I'd say (using a Panasonic TC-L42U30).


yes, but the KURO have all the features of the DVDO Anchorbay chip, so adding that wouldn't make much of a difference.
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 Post subject: Re: I can confirm that a standard LG 37" LED works
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2012, 20:34 
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cpix wrote:
naiaru wrote:
cpix wrote:
I have yet to see a LCD that can display old SD material without making it look like s**t, though I'm sure there are lcd models that can handle old retro consoles and laserdisc in a good way, but they are few. I have usually taken with me my LD player and/or Super famicom (SNES) to the store to check how it would look when buying a new TV, and the Plasmas have always won that competition easily. The newer plasmas from panasonic have caught up to KUROs blacks, but they don't have all the noise reduction, the variable 3d y/c-separation and so on that the KURO have. I'm sure all of the low def features of the kuro is one of the reasons why it became so expensive, and let's face it; newer televisions aren't made to make low definition material look good, they are all trying to be best at what we have now, not what we used 10 years ago :) CRT will always be the best choice for old interlaced material, but plasmas, and especially the kuros do the best job in my honest opinion.

Well, there's your problem. You're letting the TVs do all the heavy lifting. LCDs can be pretty good (sans the less-than-desirable-black-level) if you feed it it's native resolution and/or it has great video processing (IMHO). I use an iScan HD to scale LD and my older consoles that output RGBs (there's a tad bit of lag, though I mostly play RPGs) and it's great, I'd say (using a Panasonic TC-L42U30).


yes, but the KURO have all the features of the DVDO Anchorbay chip, so adding that wouldn't make much of a difference.

?? I'm talking about the "I have yet to see a LCD that can display old SD material without making it look like s**t" part.
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 Post subject: Re: I can confirm that a standard LG 37" LED works
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2012, 21:28 
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sorry, my mistake, i read that a bit too fast i guess.
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 Post subject: Re: I can confirm that a standard LG 37" LED works
PostPosted: 30 Dec 2012, 15:48 
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What is really needed, but not a feature of any device i've seen, is a good median temporal de-noising filter. Problem with those is their heavy cpu cost, i started coding my on spatial temporal denoiser and have been playing with the idea of trying to implement such a feature through my fpga, but its a lot of work and so little time.
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