It is currently 28 Mar 2024, 10:08




 Page 1 of 2 [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Denon LA-3500
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2013, 01:18 
Young Padawan
Young Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 30 Aug 2005, 15:38
Posts: 3415
Location: Pennsylvania
Has thanked: 76 times
Been thanked: 140 times
So did anyone else try to get this LA-3500 on Ebay? It was the first one I've ever seen show up for sale anywhere

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181218685093?ss ... 1438.l2649

I got outbid. Probably going to be another long time before I see another!
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Denon LA-3500
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2013, 01:28 
Jedi Candidate
Jedi Candidate
User avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2006, 21:20
Posts: 2125
Location: United States
Has thanked: 75 times
Been thanked: 132 times
that's weird that it doesn't have the original box and I wonder what the movies were and how were they watched if the Denon was new?
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Denon LA-3500
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2013, 01:35 
Young Padawan
Young Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 30 Aug 2005, 15:38
Posts: 3415
Location: Pennsylvania
Has thanked: 76 times
Been thanked: 140 times
You can see the titles in the pictures. Nothing special really. The player is though. Supposed to be the ONLY player released in the US market that decodes LD-G.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Denon LA-3500
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2013, 02:11 
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: 03 May 2004, 19:05
Posts: 8093
Location: Dullaware
Has thanked: 1218 times
Been thanked: 841 times
wow, i didn't know or don't think i remember ever reading about LD-G in the USA

________________________________
the rein-o official signature:
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Denon LA-3500
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2013, 02:25 
Young Padawan
Young Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05
Posts: 3569
Location: California, USA
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 314 times
its a Panasonic lx-900u inside and yes it is true that it can decode LD-G(900u cant) its rare I only see once or twice a year on ebay. You can get a Panasonic 900u for much less tho. another 100 bucks you can easly get runco ljr. but if you must have ld-g and not looking to import from japan this is the player for you
_________________
Coming Soon
Derman Labs
Anything Of Substance
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Denon LA-3500
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2013, 11:11 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 18 Apr 2012, 10:13
Posts: 814
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 6 times
Forgive my ignorance but what is LD-G?
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Denon LA-3500
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2013, 15:28 
Young Padawan
Young Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 30 Aug 2005, 15:38
Posts: 3415
Location: Pennsylvania
Has thanked: 76 times
Been thanked: 140 times
It was a primitive means of encoding subtitle-like capabilities that is standard on DVD players into the Laserdisc format back in the day.

A better explanation is here:
Quote:
Q: What is LD+G? I have seen this logo on some import laserdiscs and I was wondering what it refers to.
A: LD+G (sometimes LD-G) stands for LaserDisc + Graphics. This is a feature found on some Japanese laserdiscs as a form of optional subtitling that can be overlayed onto the video image. The end result is similar to the American Closed Captioning system, but LD+G offers the potential for many more subtitle or caption options. It also allows the viewer to move the captions upward or downward on the screen to their liking. To access the LD+G tracks, you must have an LD+G decoder. These were available in Japan either as stand-alone units, or sometimes built into a laserdisc player (such as the LD-S9. See below).

LD+G was never available on American laserdisc releases, and the decoder was not built into many American laserdisc players (I only know of one Denon model that has it).

It has been a common misconception that LD+G will enable a user to remove the Japanese subtitles from import laserdisc releases. This is, unfortunately, a myth. The subtitles found on Japanese laserdiscs are burned into the video image, much as English subtitles are typically a permanent part of foreign-language film releases in the U.S. They cannot be removed. The most one can hope to do is cover them up. LD+G can indeed do this, but only by laying a new set of subtitles on top. In theory, it would be possible for one of the LD+G tracks to be encoded with an empty black bar that could cover up the subtitled part of the picture (useful only if the subs appear entirely in the black letterbox bar), but this is not a function for which LD+G was designed, and to my knowledge no discs are encoded that way.

The most concise and informative explanation of the workings of LD+G that I have received is this one from Blaine Young:

On the LD+G discs that I have checked, there are 16 tracks possible. The decoder lists the tracks as 00 through 15, with 00 and 01 on by default. I've only ever found data on 01. It does seem a waste of potential - you could effectively have the same subtitle capabilities as DVD with LaserDisc. The one exception is that LD+G puts everything in a box [ed.: like Closed Captioning] where DVD actually lays the text over the screen without a blocking background.

As for CC and LD+G, there are several discs I've come across that are Closed Captioned in English, but do not have LD+G. I've also found some that are LD+G, but not CC. There are others that have both (like the yellow band 007 titles). A good example of CC but no LD+G would be "M:I-2". Some have neither CC nor LD+G, like "The 6th Day" and "X-Men".

CC and LD+G differ in how they are stored. LD+G is actually a subcarrier embedded in the PCM audio data - exactly the same process as CD+G. For LD, the data is extracted from the PCM track and laid overtop of the video (all done within players equipped in Japan or through an external decoder). CC is strictly in the video signal and is text that is stored on line 21 of vertical blanking area - the blank video portion between frames which is above the viewable picture area.

In either case with CC or LD+G, the program can be whatever the content provider elects, but I've yet to see anything other than English on any of the titles I've got.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Denon LA-3500
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2013, 17:52 
Young Padawan
Young Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05
Posts: 3569
Location: California, USA
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 314 times
Also from what I understand text is in black box like in cc rather than transparent background in dvd subs
_________________
Coming Soon
Derman Labs
Anything Of Substance
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Denon LA-3500
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2013, 19:47 
Jedi Candidate
Jedi Candidate
User avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2006, 21:20
Posts: 2125
Location: United States
Has thanked: 75 times
Been thanked: 132 times
elahrairrah wrote:
You can see the titles in the pictures. Nothing special really. The player is though. Supposed to be the ONLY player released in the US market that decodes LD-G.

I only looked at the pictures in the body of the listing and also he didn't mention the titles so its my mistake for not looking at the main area for pictures but I thought that and the ones in the body would be the same ones.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Denon LA-3500
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2013, 21:12 
Young Padawan
Young Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05
Posts: 3569
Location: California, USA
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 314 times
"made on japon" :)
_________________
Coming Soon
Derman Labs
Anything Of Substance
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Denon LA-3500
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2013, 02:34 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 18 Apr 2012, 10:13
Posts: 814
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 6 times
Interesting thanks..
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Denon LA-3500
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2013, 02:38 
User avatar
It is still a bit odd that he mentions cosmetic damage and there seems to be masking tape remnants on the serial number. Dealer demo maybe?

After learning more here, that's an interesting looking player and I would like to hear one. Even though it lacks that Super M.A.S.H., I wonder if it falls in the era of crushing all over Panny with Denon's general upgrades to analog sound output in their versions.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Denon LA-3500
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2013, 03:50 
Young Padawan
Young Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05
Posts: 3569
Location: California, USA
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 314 times
I dont believe there is any upgrades in it. It probably has super mash. It could be the japanese equivalent of 900u that is unknown to us. I have been in this ld game long enough I can tell you no one cared about panasonic 900u or any other up until a couple of years ago.
Disclord and kbahr discovered this machine and mentioned its a good machine over and over. Also being an cheaper alternative it has a cult following. So it really posible there was a japanese 900u that denon modelled this machine after.
_________________
Coming Soon
Derman Labs
Anything Of Substance
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Denon LA-3500
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2013, 04:12 
User avatar
I haven't heard a 900 yet. I have an lx-k700 and I assume it is standard M.A.S.H. so I am eager to find a 900. Do you know what CD models had the super M.A.S.H. -- and also if they are expensive collectibles, or affordable sleepers?
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Denon LA-3500
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2013, 16:50 
Young Padawan
Young Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 30 Aug 2005, 15:38
Posts: 3415
Location: Pennsylvania
Has thanked: 76 times
Been thanked: 140 times
The 3500 is supposedly good as a CD transport if this review on the Laserdisc Archive is to be believed:
Quote:
However, it is the audio performance that I find most impressive about the LA-3500. With my Fosgate Model 3a processor switched from Dolby Pro Logic to Stereo Bypass, the Denon proved to be a superbly musical CD player, shedding new light on disc after disc. For example, one of my all-time favorite CDs; the John Eliot Gardiner performance of Monteverdi's Vespro Della Beata Vergine (Archiv 429 56S2J; was recorded in the Basilica di San Marco in Venice using audiophile-approved minimalist Viking techniques. The LA-3500's rendition of this recording is stunning. The positioning of the multiple choirs, the power of the brass section, and the remarkable ambience of St. Mark's are tangible in a way that I have only experienced previously with a high-end, two-piece CD player that costs in excess of $6,000.

In fact, the Denon works so well as a CD player, it has taken over as the primary CD spinner in my system. No other laserdisc player; including one with a separate little drawer for CDs; has even tempted me to do that
Also, I do remember disclord praising the D/A in the 900. It might not be the MASH system, but it's still pretty good. I have no complaints with my 900, audiowise, but I also normally just have it plugged into my receiver via TOSLink so the 24-bit Burr-Brown DAC in my VSX-27TX receiver does all the processing.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Denon LA-3500
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2013, 17:43 
Young Padawan
Young Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05
Posts: 3569
Location: California, USA
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 314 times
generally good dacs are important but not as important as the analog section of the CD player. newer dacs can have much higher s/n ratio than the best dacs 10 years ago. for example the ess sabre 32 dac in 2ch mode can do over 130db where as the best burr-brown 10 years ago barely reached 120db.If the analog section(most importantly power section) is mediocre the noise floor will be much higher. Generally difference in noise floor is deducted from the dacs best s/n ratio. so if the cheap cd player has dacs with 122db and Panasonic has 116db but Panasonic has nearly 10db less noise from analog sections. it will sound clearer. this is just one aspect. each dac has different characteristics. generally wolfsen, crystal(cirrus logic now), burr-brown, ess sabre, akm made dacs are considered good musical dacs

now cd recordings cant reach over 110 db specs of these good quality dacs anyway. it is around 93db at best but it is almost certain analog section of the player introduces good amount of noise that in return gets you around 95-100db(hopefully) practical s/n ratio. LD players generally have better power sections than average cd players. Runco /msb has even better power supplies than 900u. more powerful and larger LD drive, bigger and less resonant chasis also adds to these advantages.
_________________
Coming Soon
Derman Labs
Anything Of Substance
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Denon LA-3500
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2013, 20:53 
Young Padawan
Young Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 30 Aug 2005, 15:38
Posts: 3415
Location: Pennsylvania
Has thanked: 76 times
Been thanked: 140 times
Disclord praised the analog audio of the stock LX-900 as being far better than later Pioneer's, so with his endorsement and that of the reviewer in the clip from LaserdiscArchive, I don't have too much to worry about in that regard :D
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Denon LA-3500
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2013, 21:04 
Young Padawan
Young Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05
Posts: 3569
Location: California, USA
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 314 times
whoever got this la-3500 should open it up, take pics and post here so we can compare it to 900u.
If I had the room to be able to display/use more components LA-3500 is one that I would like to own
_________________
Coming Soon
Derman Labs
Anything Of Substance
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Denon LA-3500
PostPosted: 27 Sep 2013, 02:16 
User avatar
If I have my info correct, the Panny definitely does have the Super M.A.S.H. I'm just learning towards an upgrade though, there is lots of information to sift through.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Denon LA-3500
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2018, 00:27 
Young Padawan
Young Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 30 Aug 2005, 15:38
Posts: 3415
Location: Pennsylvania
Has thanked: 76 times
Been thanked: 140 times
Found a review of this player in an old issue of Video Magazine

Image

Image

Image
Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 2 [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: