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 Post subject: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2013, 23:05 
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With lot's of laserdisc having 5.1 mixes (as well as stereo encoded ones as well) with significant use of LFE, I thought it would be great to have a dedicated thread for subwoofers. It would be great to hear about what people are using for their LFE channels and their experiences and recommendations. I recently bought a new subwoofer so I thought I would share. :)

Hsu Research VTF-15H Subwoofer with Rosenut Veneer

So the most recent addition to the home theater room is a new subwoofer. One of my subs started to get a little rattle on high volume areas and I figured it's time to upgrade to something "high end" for the "low end." :)

After doing a considerable amount of research I decided to go with a Hsu Research VTF-15H. This is a huge 100 lb beast that really can rattle your spine. What is also really great is that it can be configured from a closed design, to a 1 or 2 port open design on the fly. I really think it competes well with the multi-thousand dollar subs that I have heard so I am very happy with the purchase.

I wrote a full review here with pictures of the unpacking and setup.


Here is the product website if anybody is interested.


I have spent the last few days calibrating it and running some content with nice low end pieces (ie Tron: Legacy, Lord of the Rings, Thor, etc..). Not only is it quite powerful (I have it on approximately 1/3 volume in my 500 sq foot home theater room) but it's exceptionally tight. You can really tell the difference between 16 hz and 20 hz, 50 hz and 60 hz.... etc.

If anybody is looking for a serious subwoofer, I give this my highest recommendation.

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Stats:
Amplifier Power (RMS) 1400 W Short Term, 350 W Continuous
Hybrid Tuning 16 Hz Ported, 22 Hz Ported or Sealed
Woofer Front Firing 15 Inch
Q Control Range 0.3 - 0.7
Crossover 30 - 90 Hz, Bypassable
Crossover Slope 24 dB/Oct
Phase 0°/180°
Inputs Line Level (2), Speaker Level (2)
Power Outlet Requirement 430 W, 120/240V
Enclosure Dimensions 25" H x 18" W x 26" D
Weight 100 lbs
Warranty 7-years on Woofer, 2-years on Electronics
Designed and Engineered in the U.S.A
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2013, 23:10 
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what a beast, when i was growing up my father had a sub woofer, can't remember too much about it.
but the company would only sell to people in NYC who were not living above another apartment.

i'll read this in detail later.
thanks for posting the info as always.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2013, 23:48 
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Poh Sur Hsu (I think that's his full name) is a subwoofer genius - his original subs, made from cardboard tubes, were monsters of infrasonic bass reproduction. I talked to him once extensively about recreating Sensurround for a showing of Deep Impact at the IMAX theater I worked at, but it was finally determined that to pressurize the entire theater down to 16 Hz at 120db was going to be too expensive, even with all the free services he was offering. Also, fire codes were getting in the way!

My current subs are a Cerwin-Vega 12-inch HT-12D powered by a 150 watt amp in a Pioneer receiver and a self powered 15-inch Polk cube design - like Bob Carver invented and popularized with his Amazing Subwoofer and the Earthquake company (and every other company) quickly stole the general idea for and came out with their own inferior versions.

My Polk sub is fed from the .1 LFE channel of my Denon receiver with Audyssey set to an 80 Hz crossover, while the Cerwin-Vega sub is fed from a combination of the 3 front and 4 rear signals and crossed over at 80 Hz. Since bass is directional - we localize it by phase, not level - I have the two subs spaced about 4 feet apart in the front of the room. The result is some awesome bass.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2013, 00:42 
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Hmmm...let's see...

There's an NHT SW-10 sub in my living room, used along with Canton Karat 20 speakers & a Yamaha RX-V1000 receiver & a Lexicon LDD-1 processor/decoder for surround. That sub can also be used with my 2-channel system in that room, which has JBL 4333As biamped using a Marantz DP870 (used here as a level-controller/DAC, has a sub crossover built-in), Ashly crossover, and two Adcom GFA-2535 4-channel power amps (two sets of two channels bridged for 200WPC to the 15"s, and two channels at 60W for the mid horns/ring radiators, and two 60W channels idle).

There's a Velodyne VA-1210X in my basement theater/recording studio, used along with JBL L46s & a Harman Kardon ADP303 processor/decoder, Adcom GTP-600 Pro-Logic preamp, and a 6x60WPC-channel Elan Z-Amp for power.

There's an AudioPro B1-45 Ace Bass sub in my control room, running with JBL L110s & a Yamaha P2100 power amp.

The JBL HP420s in my bedroom system have four passive 6.5" subs built in to their bases, they're powered by a Nakamichi RE-1.

There's a Canton sub (Movie 100MX? I forget) at our lake house's little theater, with Boston Acoustics A-40 speakers and a Marantz receiver.

There's also a nice M&K V3B sub and a Polk sub chillin' in my spares pile, and a bunch of EAW and JBL subs piled up with my live PA gear.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2013, 02:27 
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I have a Cerwin Vega! CLSC-15S - 15" Powered Subwoofer.

Got at Sears for 1/2 off when they had a clearance sale. I was surprised that Sears actually carried it!

Before that I had an 8" Aiwa powere sub. It was my first sub. I sold it on Ebay after I got the Cerwin Vega!.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2013, 01:45 
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sub bass


Last edited by laserbite34 on 25 Jun 2013, 22:25, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2013, 03:01 
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I been needing to get a set of sub woofers, I rather not have a set of dedicated woofers tho.
more like a set of speakers with mids subs and tweeters.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2013, 03:39 
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voodoo wrote:
I been needing to get a set of sub woofers, I rather not have a set of dedicated woofers tho.
more like a set of speakers with mids subs and tweeters.


You don't necessarily need a dedicated sub but you probably will be losing a lot of the lower frequencies. You'll find it hard to get that "earth rattling" sound without a good dedicated subwoofer. Also, all those AC3 soundtracks are going to waste without utilizing that LFE channel.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2013, 15:45 
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I rather not have the "earth rattling" but I want lower frequency sounds.
TBH the speakers I made out of my old Stanton Dynaphase Sixty have enough rattle. But their not quite low enough.


EDIT
I don't use AC-3, my receiver does not have it. that and I only have one disk with it.
my receiver (JVC RX 8040b) does a nice job taking the audio form the player and spitting it out in 5.0
I can't see is being any worse for 5.1. But I'm going to start getting some DTS disks once I have the money.


Last edited by Guest on 20 Mar 2013, 15:57, edited 3 times in total.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2013, 15:54 
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voodoo wrote:
I rather not have the "earth rattling" but I want lower frequency sounds.
TBH the speakers I made out of my old Stanton Dynaphase Sixty have enough rattle. But their not quite low enough.


I think for music you can generally get away with some descent tower speakers that have cones that 4-5 inches or larger. But I like to "feel" my explosions in movies, and for that you need a larger cone and some power behind it. And beyond the shear size of the woofer is the quality, a high end multi-thousand dollar sub sounds infinitely better than some $100 piece of garbage they are selling at walmart, even if they both have 10 inch drivers.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2013, 16:00 
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Knowing me, I'll probably be buying some older speakers, most likely just the cones/divers and going the DIY route to save a bit of cash.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2013, 16:08 
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voodoo wrote:
Knowing me, I'll probably be buying some older speakers, most likely just the cones/divers and going the DIY route to save a bit of cash.


I often buy used as well. Many times you can get equipment in pretty much new condition for 1/3 of the "new selling price." I actually bought my Martin Logan Vantage speakers like this and saved about $4k dollars. Came perfectly new condition in original boxes, plastic coverings, etc.., if you didn't tell somebody they had been preowned you would have never known, not even the tiniest scratch.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 21 May 2013, 04:59 
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For my .1 I have a Klipsch KSW 15, it's okay, not great, it needs to be heavier so it doesn't move around and better venting. I'd like to upgrade to an RSW 15 but they're hard to find or the Klipsch THX subs which run about 1500 each. The KSW 15's are hard to find now as well.

I have powered subs in my front speakers with dedicated LFE lines Klipsch RP-5's, 12 inch subs ported. The back rear speakers are RP-3's which have powered 10's which are sealed, also dedicated LFE lines.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 21 May 2013, 16:15 
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I went with a Polk Audio RM6750 5.1 speaker package which fit my budget at the time though I might replace the speakers when I finally upgrade my Pio VSX1019 AHK


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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 21 May 2013, 17:25 
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While I am happy with the bass reproduction of my system, having seen Earthquake, Midway, Rollercoaster and Battlestar Galactica theatrically in Sensurround (never saw Mission Galactica in Sensurround because it wasn't shown theatrically in the US) my ideas of good bass for films can't be satisfied - no modern theater has bass like Sensurround and home subs just can't move the amount of air that the Sensurround horns could. I've heard excellent home subs from Velodyne and Hsu and even the Bag-End Infrasubs, but again, they can't move the air like a huge horn with its mouth extended to use the walls as part of the horn. I got the Blu-ray release of Battlestar Galactica last week and while they finally got the Sensurround bass right in terms of level, the effect just can't be duplicated with modern subs - especially not any type of bass reflex sub.

The HPS-4000 theatrical sound system has had its Klipsch horn subs designed so that with extenders and multiple stacks they will reproduce the Sensurround effect correctly, but except for a theater in Hawaii that was torn down, no theater has used the mouth extenders or bat wings. A home horn-loaded sub with high level response down to 16Hz needs to be released - it could be designed to move large amounts of air in the smaller room of the home. While subs like the servo controlled Velodyne's can reach 16Hz at about 100db, the effect is subjectively different than a horn of the same capability and I think a horn loaded sub is the ultimate for motion picture sound.

As a side note, the popularity of sound bars just baffles me - they sound terrible and are completely incapable of reproducing surround sound correctly.

BTW - The BD of Battlestar doesn't have the front/back surround effect, which is sad considering it would be so easy to mix for the home. The French track on the BD is the full optical Sensurround Mod-III track that hasn't been decoded with DBX II noise reduction, so if you have a DBX II decoder, try it out - you wont get the front/back effects, but its more impressive than the 2.1 DTS-MA English track - the 2.1 is encoded with 5.1 channels so your receiver will indicate its 5.1 when its really only 2.1 encoded in the 5.1 channels. I hope the forthcoming BD of Earthquake gets the Sensurround right, unlike the US DVD release - the Midway BD will be good if they eliminate the control tones that the US DVD suffers from. Of course, since its Mod-II Sensurround it won't have the front/back effect.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 21 May 2013, 18:57 
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The KW 120 boasts 112 db at 15 hz.
But at 1500.00 per sub plus no built in amp, it's a bit pricy (to be paired with a KA 1000 amp 1500.00). Still, I'd like to stick with Klipsch and since the RSW is hard to find, I'll probably end up going with the KW 120 next.

KW-120-THX Specifications

frequency response 20-200Hz ±3dB
power handling See KA-1000-THX specifications
sensitivity 130dB @ 30Hz, 122dB @ 20Hz, 112dB @ 15Hz 1/8 space, 1m (2 enclosures side-by-side per THX Ultra2)
nominal impedance 8 ohms
woofer 12" (30.5cm) front-firing, Cermetallic™ cone, cast aluminum frame driver with a 240oz ceramic magnet structure
amplifier Use only with KA-1000-THX
enclosure material MDF
enclosure type Bass reflex via front-firing slot port
dimensions 20.25" (51.4cm) H x 17.75" (45.1cm) W x 17.75" (45.1cm) D (w/ grille)
weight 80 lbs. (36.3kg)
finishes Galaxy Black cabinet with Black anodized aluminum fascia
built from 2004
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2013, 04:09 
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I have a pair of Martin Logan Descent I subwoofers
http://www.martinlogan.com/products/descenti

I use them in the front left and right outer side of each of my front main speakers. They each have three digital servo controlled 10" drivers 120 degrees to each other(360 degree total) Each is powered by a separate 250watts RMS, 700 watts peak(total 2100) amps.

They are very musical subs and since I have two of them they do very good with movies too.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 21 Oct 2013, 19:56 
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HSU all the way! I'm a true believer, incredible ooooomph! for the cash. I have the 12" 250 watt amp version and it did rattle the pictures off the wall....lol.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2013, 03:16 
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This is nothing to do with Laserdisc, but cam anyone tell me why my subwoofer makes clicking noises? The clicks aren't loud and they don't happen all of the time, but they do pop up particularly in a scene where the actual subwoofer itself kicks in.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2013, 03:38 
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most subs have auto turn on/off. they shut off when there is no signal coming for few minutes and turn on immediately a signal is detected. some movies they go silent for 10-15mins and when action kicks in you hear that pop sound which means your sub just turned itself on.
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