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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 27 Apr 2014, 23:45 
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Your room must be small or you have super efficient speakers. -20 db on the dial is not loud at all. At reference level 0 db, your db meter should read 85 db average.

You can keep the door open, or at least slightly open. That should do the trick.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 30 Apr 2014, 00:35 
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well, it depends on the movie.
i noticed more subwoofer effects when i'm standing on my bed, would phase inversion work?
is reference level 115db or 120db with subwoofer, or is it 103?

--update--

subwoofer is louder at the rear because of distance, now sitting close to 9ft when i was 6ft from the subwoofer.
also, after fixing my setup, i get 110db from the AC-3 version of twister at -10db.


Last edited by elieb on 05 Aug 2015, 03:39, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 30 Apr 2014, 01:18 
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Reference level is 85 db average, 105 db peak. Lfe channel is recorded 10 db louder so peak is 115 db. Typically corners and near walls have more bass. If you placed your sub near a corner it will produce more spl.

If the room allows it, you get more accurate bass if you place your sub at least 2 ft from backwall and 4 feet from side walls. More than one subwoofer also help evenly spread bass but it is more difficult to critically position them.

Modern receivers have room correction that also address boomy bass. Read about room treatment and especially bass traps. You can treat critical points of your room with acoustic dampning material for cleaner bass. 8 bass traps on each corner shouldnt cost more than $150. You can make them yourself too.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 30 Apr 2014, 01:32 
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my pioneer vsx 59txi has advanced mccac. what will phase invert do?
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 30 Apr 2014, 13:07 
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As mentioned above, 85 db is reference, but really this is meaningless as there will be room variation, and everybody sets their volume to their preference.

Inverting the phase will most likely not fix the problem as it's frequency and amplitude that effect vibration, not phase.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 19 Sep 2014, 20:50 
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Maybe some one with more knowledge of subwoofers can point me in the right direction. I'm currently in need of 2 8ohm subwoofers. They need to be 6 inchs across and some what cheap. Able to handle 90 watts RMS per sub. Focal's need not apply.

I'm converting an old Bose accustimass 5 series 2 over to just passive sub only duty. Back panel, cross over, and dinky little cheap subs are out of the box. Bose uses very cheap speakers, not even ohm matched, one speaker is 5.4ohms and the other is 5.7 ohms. However, they do know how to build a nice speaker box. Well constructed, very sturdy and nicely finished.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 19 Sep 2014, 21:32 
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Bose acoustimas module is a very bad design to use as a subwoofer. Its a bandpass enclosure designed for maximum pissible output which means least accurate. Even if you throw in the very best drivers you wont get good sound.

Try to find a sealed enclosure for music or ported for films. You can even build it yourself very cheaply. Try a 10" or 12" max for music.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2014, 16:07 
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darkgenerals wrote:
Maybe some one with more knowledge of subwoofers can point me in the right direction. I'm currently in need of 2 8ohm subwoofers. They need to be 6 inchs across and some what cheap. Able to handle 90 watts RMS per sub. Focal's need not apply.

I'm converting an old Bose accustimass 5 series 2 over to just passive sub only duty. Back panel, cross over, and dinky little cheap subs are out of the box. Bose uses very cheap speakers, not even ohm matched, one speaker is 5.4ohms and the other is 5.7 ohms. However, they do know how to build a nice speaker box. Well constructed, very sturdy and nicely finished.


In all honesty I would not recommend going this route. Couple of reasons:

1) Active subs are going to be much better than some dinky passive sub powered by a receiver.

2) 6 inch diameter subs are not going to produce the deep base your looking for. With subs, size does matter. If you want good deep extension I would start looking at 8" and that's a minimum. 10-12" will be even better.

3) Ok, I'm just going to say it. Bose is terrible. There is a good reason why every audiophile rips on these. "No highs, no lows, must be Bose".

If price is a big concern look into Hsu Research. I use their VTF-15H which is totally awesome, I'd put it up against any sub in the $2-3k range. If that is out of your budget, they have cheaper offerings which are very good and even their cheapest sub will be multiple times better than what your talking about. Hope that helps.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2014, 23:35 
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invenio wrote:
darkgenerals wrote:
Maybe some one with more knowledge of subwoofers can point me in the right direction. I'm currently in need of 2 8ohm subwoofers. They need to be 6 inchs across and some what cheap. Able to handle 90 watts RMS per sub. Focal's need not apply.

I'm converting an old Bose accustimass 5 series 2 over to just passive sub only duty. Back panel, cross over, and dinky little cheap subs are out of the box. Bose uses very cheap speakers, not even ohm matched, one speaker is 5.4ohms and the other is 5.7 ohms. However, they do know how to build a nice speaker box. Well constructed, very sturdy and nicely finished.


In all honesty I would not recommend going this route. Couple of reasons:

1) Active subs are going to be much better than some dinky passive sub powered by a receiver. I can agree with you on this, that is why my plan is to use a 6 channel Rotel 965ab amp. 4 of the channels with be bridged down to two channel. Each 6 inch sub will be pushed independently. This will be 90 watts RMS per sub in this configuration. My pre-amp has 2 sub-out connections.

2) 6 inch diameter subs are not going to produce the deep base your looking for. With subs, size does matter. If you want good deep extension I would start looking at 8" and that's a minimum. 10-12" will be even better.This is a concern I carry also, substance also addressed this. I currently live in an apartment so I need subs that do not create of alot base but can somewhat re-produce the frequencies. Even if they do not have any power behind them.

3) Ok, I'm just going to say it. Bose is terrible. There is a good reason why every audiophile rips on these. "No highs, no lows, must be Bose".100% agree with this statement, that is why I ripped out all of the bose electronics, even the crappy bose drivers. I will be doing my own wiring, and binding posts.

If price is a big concern look into Hsu Research. I use their VTF-15H which is totally awesome, I'd put it up against any sub in the $2-3k range. If that is out of your budget, they have cheaper offerings which are very good and even their cheapest sub will be multiple times better than what your talking about. Hope that helps.


I agree hole hardly with both you and substance, I know bose are not the best speakers. Using a dedicated sub in the 8+ inch size would be better all around for movies. I'm just limited by my current situation. Another way to think about this is, I'm not using any of the bose parts but the box. This will be a custom, low cost build just to get some kind of base. I currently have all the pieces, just need some cheap decent 8ohm 6 inch drivers.

substance wrote:
Bose acoustimas module is a very bad design to use as a subwoofer. Its a bandpass enclosure designed for maximum pissible output which means least accurate. Even if you throw in the very best drivers you wont get good sound.

Try to find a sealed enclosure for music or ported for films. You can even build it yourself very cheaply. Try a 10" or 12" max for music.


This is something that worries me, I know most subwoofer boxes are tuned to a certain driver or set of drivers. I will have to settle on a non perfect setup, until certain things happen. I still kick my self for passing up on a klipsch powered subwoofer for 50 bucks. One of the big ones, it was 2x2x2 foot size woofer. I was just afraid it was to much for a apartment. Thank you for taking the time to responded.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 20 Feb 2015, 08:37 
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disclord wrote:
While I am happy with the bass reproduction of my system, having seen Earthquake, Midway, Rollercoaster and Battlestar Galactica theatrically in Sensurround (never saw Mission Galactica in Sensurround because it wasn't shown theatrically in the US) my ideas of good bass for films can't be satisfied - no modern theater has bass like Sensurround and home subs just can't move the amount of air that the Sensurround horns could. I've heard excellent home subs from Velodyne and Hsu and even the Bag-End Infrasubs, but again, they can't move the air like a huge horn with its mouth extended to use the walls as part of the horn. I got the Blu-ray release of Battlestar Galactica last week and while they finally got the Sensurround bass right in terms of level, the effect just can't be duplicated with modern subs - especially not any type of bass reflex sub.

The HPS-4000 theatrical sound system has had its Klipsch horn subs designed so that with extenders and multiple stacks they will reproduce the Sensurround effect correctly, but except for a theater in Hawaii that was torn down, no theater has used the mouth extenders or bat wings. A home horn-loaded sub with high level response down to 16Hz needs to be released - it could be designed to move large amounts of air in the smaller room of the home. While subs like the servo controlled Velodyne's can reach 16Hz at about 100db, the effect is subjectively different than a horn of the same capability and I think a horn loaded sub is the ultimate for motion picture sound.

As a side note, the popularity of sound bars just baffles me - they sound terrible and are completely incapable of reproducing surround sound correctly.

BTW - The BD of Battlestar doesn't have the front/back surround effect, which is sad considering it would be so easy to mix for the home. The French track on the BD is the full optical Sensurround Mod-III track that hasn't been decoded with DBX II noise reduction, so if you have a DBX II decoder, try it out - you wont get the front/back effects, but its more impressive than the 2.1 DTS-MA English track - the 2.1 is encoded with 5.1 channels so your receiver will indicate its 5.1 when its really only 2.1 encoded in the 5.1 channels. I hope the forthcoming BD of Earthquake gets the Sensurround right, unlike the US DVD release - the Midway BD will be good if they eliminate the control tones that the US DVD suffers from. Of course, since its Mod-II Sensurround it won't have the front/back effect.



Since 2012 HPS has introduced HPS-XLX which doubles and in some cases quadruples their already powerful bass. This was done in response to IMAX bass. HPS-XLX is now by far the most powerful Bass in the business and literary blows the IMAX bass away. Not to mention the Subs from the HPS system produce 90 percent less distortion than the subs from IMAX.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2015, 03:30 
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Running a pair of these.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2015, 03:32 
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3 x 10" drivers 120 degrees to each other. 3 x 250Wrms (700Wpeak) class D switching amps for each drivers for a total of 2100Wpeak.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2015, 03:39 
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Just added this active crossover to the setup this weekend. 4 poles per speaker, each custom adjustable from 22Hz to 18kHz for 6/12/18/24 db slopes and 3 Q (sharpness) settings for total of over 25 million possibilities. Its a completely discrete single ended class a design by none other than the legend himself, Nelson Pass. My electrostats now bandlimited to midbass and above, they really opened up.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2015, 04:44 
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elieb wrote:
i noticed more subwoofer effects when i'm standing on my bed


Every room has "modes" that are most noticeable in the bass frequencies. These are places in the room where the sound waves either reinforce each other or cancel each other out. When you're standing on the bed, your head is probably positioned at one of the modes. It takes a massive amount of bass-absorbing material to completely get rid of them. The smaller the room, the more material required. I'm talking about something like rock wool a meter or two deep in all the corners. Something like 3 or 4 inch thick foam tiles would be useless at low frequencies. I don't bother with sound dampening at all in my listening spaces. I'll have to use it in my studio if I want my recordings to sound right though.

For what it's worth, I use 12" JBL or Canton passive subwoofers with 35 watt amps. The systems are plenty loud for the spaces I use them in. I never have to turn them up more than halfway. I build stereo systems to listen to music. I dabbled in home theater years ago but couldn't really get into it. I hooked my LaserDisc player up to the stereo just because it was there and I had the cables to do it.

I don't typically participate in "audiophile" forums because they often devolve into petty games of one-upmanship: "Your gear sucks, mine is better." Don't let anyone ruin your enjoyment of what you have. If it sounds good, it is good.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2015, 23:34 
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substance wrote:
Running a pair of these.


Love the martin logan's... very nice. I miss my ML vantages often.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2015, 03:42 
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How you like the maggies?
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2015, 20:30 
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substance wrote:
How you like the maggies?


Love them. I just love planar speakers in general. When I wanted to upgrade it was a choice between the martin logan CLX or the Magnepan 20.1 or 20.7's. The 20.7's just came out so used 20.1's were going "pretty cheap" as it wasn't the latest model anymore. I felt I couldn't beat the bang for my buck in the high end speaker range so I grabbed a pair of modified 20.1's with custom made bases. Wouldn't mind one day owning a set of ML CLX's, but I'm very happy with the 20.1's.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2015, 03:36 
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is the Bic PL-200 a good investment? i'm currently using a Kenwood SW-303
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2015, 04:17 
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can you audition it before you buy?
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 Post subject: Re: Official Subwoofer thread
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2015, 17:33 
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substance wrote:
can you audition it before you buy?


i use the reviews to determine it.
and from what i've heard, it's excellent. goes from 22hz to 200.
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