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Picture quality scale by format
https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7698		 Page 2 of 6
Author:  Guest [ 11 Mar 2018, 05:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Picture quality scale by format
takeshi666 wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
I’m not sure how you figure BR is better than HD-DVD. They are essentially the same but HD-DVD had much less annoying menues in many cases.

I was gonna say that blu-ray supports a better video codec but according to wikipedia they both use the same ones - but blu-ray does have higher storage capacity and max bitrate than HD-DVD.


Current bluray encoding quality puts HD-DVD to shame, so in a sense blurays of movies that were on HD-DVD may be superior, but if HD-DVD were still around there's no reason it couldn't have done the same thing.

i was firmly on team HD-DVD before it croaked.
Author:  forper [ 11 Mar 2018, 06:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Picture quality scale by format
Too bad the masters used for a lot of blu rays are dumbed down or messed with in so many ways they're not the original films anymore.
Author:  elahrairrah [ 11 Mar 2018, 18:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Picture quality scale by format
ertoili wrote:
Vhs much better HiFi stereo than
Beta do you agree? PQ for Beta a bit

Audiowise, they were about the same if you check the specs. Both had 90db dynamic range. The major difference was in how they were implemented. Beta was able to use the existing tape heads to carry the hi-fi signal, while VHS had to include another recording head.

This comparison article on the two from way back at their inception, says about the same:

BETA VERSUS VHS-LISTENING FOR DIFFERENCES IN STEREO SOUND - NY Times, 1984
Author:  ertoili [ 11 Mar 2018, 20:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Picture quality scale by format
Vcd
CED
Video 2000
VHD
Vhs
Beta
S-Vhs
Ed-Beta
Laserdisc
W-Vhs
DVD
Laserdisc HiVision
D-Vhs
HD DVD
Bluray
Bluray HDR
Author:  ertoili [ 11 Mar 2018, 21:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Picture quality scale by format
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_oJs8-I9WtA

Hard to say VHS vs Beta
Author:  ertoili [ 11 Mar 2018, 21:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Picture quality scale by format
What about the (mpg-4 xvid) playback capabilities of the DVD player ? Can it beat the Laserdisc HiVision ?
Author:  signofzeta [ 11 Mar 2018, 22:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Picture quality scale by format
ertoili wrote:
What about the (mpg-4 xvid) playback capabilities of the DVD player ? Can it beat the Laserdisc HiVision ?


Well, easily, but that’s not a format. That’s just “whatever fits on a memory card” format.
Author:  signofzeta [ 11 Mar 2018, 23:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Picture quality scale by format
elahrairrah wrote:
ertoili wrote:
Vhs much better HiFi stereo than
Beta do you agree? PQ for Beta a bit

Audiowise, they were about the same if you check the specs. Both had 90db dynamic range. The major difference was in how they were implemented. Beta was able to use the existing tape heads to carry the hi-fi signal, while VHS had to include another recording head.

This comparison article on the two from way back at their inception, says about the same:

BETA VERSUS VHS-LISTENING FOR DIFFERENCES IN STEREO SOUND - NY Times, 1984


Yeah...but old articles aren’t very useful for things like this when the format changes over time, as VHS essentially did. I have a DVD recorder with a VCR in it and HDMI out and it obliterates anything VCR-wise from 1984 (until it breaks because it’s cheap 21st century plastic crap). These improvements didn’t really happen with Beta, not past the 80s anyway.

You don’t really know what LD “can do” until you have Goldeneye or THX Wow! or something like that. Titanic on VHS has no Beta equal.

Is there a Betamax pro deck from 1997 that one could copy Titanic onto to compare?
Author:  ertoili [ 12 Mar 2018, 01:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Picture quality scale by format
Beta is composite
VHS is a subcarriered Svideo like

VHS HQ reachs 250 lines
Betamax 260

VHS tapes enjoyed the best late prodecks as Signofzeta said....
...so lets clarify that if the creator of the format
is able to produce a state of the art player
that put the vhs lines on heaven...well done!

Thats the reason why we put "W-vhs" down ,cause
cant see the "on paper" potential of the tape anywhere.
Same with ED-Beta raw power is 550 lines but
with a less stable picture barely compete with
the crystal clear DVD or LD supreme sound

I think this is the definitive list . Any appeal on the court ?


Vcd
CED
Video 2000
VHD
Vhs ------ Beta
S-Vhs
Ed-Beta
Laserdisc
W-Vhs
DVD
Laserdisc HiVision
D-Vhs
HD DVD
Bluray
Bluray HDR
Author:  signofzeta [ 12 Mar 2018, 05:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Picture quality scale by format
I think CED and VCD are equally crap. They look nothing alike but CED is at least as bad as VCD. They are both odd in that they were invented after other formats with better picture and audio quality by companies who apparently thought that wouldn’t be a problem. CED was a massive flop, VCD the biggest thing in the world, but neither made their creators much money.
Author:  elahrairrah [ 12 Mar 2018, 05:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Picture quality scale by format
ertoili wrote:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_oJs8-I9WtA

Hard to say VHS vs Beta

Problem is, he uses Betamax B-II mode while using VHS SP mode. Regardless of the excuses he uses for not comparing fastest speed to fastest speed (the actual real reason he HAS to use B-II is that the Beta VCR he has doesn't have B-I speed), a proper comparison is B-I to VHS SP.

If you're going to use B-II speed in a comparison, the apples to apples comparison is B-II vs VHS LP since that would be 1/2 speed vs 1/2 speed.

B-I Betamax beats VHS SP hands down.
Author:  elahrairrah [ 12 Mar 2018, 05:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Picture quality scale by format
signofzeta wrote:
Yeah...but old articles aren’t very useful for things like this when the format changes over time, as VHS essentially did. I have a DVD recorder with a VCR in it and HDMI out and it obliterates anything VCR-wise from 1984 (until it breaks because it’s cheap 21st century plastic crap). These improvements didn’t really happen with Beta, not past the 80s anyway.

You don’t really know what LD “can do” until you have Goldeneye or THX Wow! or something like that. Titanic on VHS has no Beta equal.

Is there a Betamax pro deck from 1997 that one could copy Titanic onto to compare?

I have one of the highest end consumer Betamax VCRs out there in the Sony SL-HF2100 and the Open Matte Titanic LD if you really want me to find out! :crazy:
Author:  ertoili [ 12 Mar 2018, 19:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Picture quality scale by format
CED
Vcd
Video 2000
VHD
Vhs ------ Beta
S-Vhs
Ed-Beta
Laserdisc
W-Vhs
DVD
Laserdisc HiVision
D-Vhs
HD DVD
Bluray
Bluray HDR
Author:  ertoili [ 12 Mar 2018, 20:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Picture quality scale by format
Impossible to find a scene on vcd with no
macroblocking, even its sound is not a true 320kbps mp3, but a crappy 96-224kbps file if required by the video section....puaggg !

YouTube videos about CED demonstration show a full spectacle of nasty artifacts on image like small signal interruptions.

These two are a shame
Author:  elahrairrah [ 13 Mar 2018, 16:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Picture quality scale by format
Yeah, VCD was just a mess of a format--more for convenience than anything else.

I was glad to have the capability to play them back when I visited Hong Kong so many times when I was in the Navy. There were so many movies I wanted to see, but didn't want to empty my bank account getting the LDs (remember this was 1994-1997 so LDs were NOT cheap by any means back then.) VCDs at HMV and Tower Records were so damn affordable, so it was a no brainer to get those if I wanted to grab a stack of movies.

I think the best looking VCD I have is The Rock. I'll see if I can get any decent still images from that one.
Author:  elahrairrah [ 13 Mar 2018, 16:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Picture quality scale by format
Also, should we include 8mm/Video8, Hi-8, Digital8 and MiniDV on here?

I know Sony sold some stand alone decks for those formats and movies were at least released on 8mm and possibly Hi-8.
Author:  ertoili [ 13 Mar 2018, 20:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Picture quality scale by format
Yes,asian countries love the Vcd, it is a mistery :)

OK,here we go ;

CED
Vcd
Video 8
Video 2000
VHD
Vhs -------- Beta
Video Hi8
S-vhs
Digital 8 mini DV
ED-beta
Laserdisc
W-Vhs
DVD
Laserdisc Hi-Vision
Author:  substance [ 13 Mar 2018, 20:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Picture quality scale by format
The list looks very accurate. I want to point out a few things. Your ranking here is from worst to best. There are small incremental improvements between each format here however there are two that stands apart. I believe the quality difference between Laserdisc and anything prior was huge. The same type of marginal improvement re-occurred again with the HD wave that are Blu-ray and HD-DVD. D-Theater is a very close honorable mention here but it only has 96 titles under its belt.
Author:  ertoili [ 13 Mar 2018, 22:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Picture quality scale by format
substance wrote:
The list looks very accurate. I want to point out a few things. Your ranking here is from worst to best. There are small incremental improvements between each format here however there are two that stands apart. I believe the quality difference between Laserdisc and anything prior was huge. The same type of marginal improvement re-occurred again with the HD wave that are Blu-ray and HD-DVD. D-Theater is a very close honorable mention here but it only has 96 titles under its belt.


ED-Beta 1988
W-Vhs 1994
Laserdisc ....till 2000

Do you consider the LD on better scale position than W-Vhs ?

You know greatest discrepancies here are on the VHS------ Beta, and HD DVD----Bluray axis.
Author:  ertoili [ 13 Mar 2018, 22:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Picture quality scale by format
HD DVD is the same as Bluray....but on the biggest tv some people maintain the opinion that Bluray higher video bitrate
will take the edge....

LD works great on proyectors coupled with the best digiplayers, better than a 1035i W-Vhs? I'm trying to know that....maybe yes
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