Hello, world and admin. Apparently, I found a new pitfall in my adventures of listening to Dolby and DTS soundtracks in my Turtle Beach headphones.

Earlier in a previous chat, which I can't give thanks on, sjoerg recommended a Sony SDP-E800. I want to thank him for trying. Apparently, he didn't succeed.

The SDP-E800 does have an AC3 in, a Toslink LCPM/Dolby Pro Logic/(maybe) DTS 5.1 in, and a Toslink out, but apparently the Toslink out only does either Dolby Pro Logic or LCPCM at higher sample rates than RCA L/R cables. It was made for DAT and MiniDisc recordings.

Apparently the only way to get Surround out is to hook up 6 separate speakers and to play with the controls to optimize the room. This is the exact same crazy King Spot Syndrome I'm talking about in communal systems. That's why I got headphones, they are always acoustically balanced and centered around you. And the finer controls are on the remote, which I don't have, so this has been a bust.

Now here's the (figurative) million dollar question. I need something that can convert AC3, which apparently has 5.1-7.1 distinct channels, which would be balanced in a headphone environment, and just straight convert the signal to S-PDIF Dolby 5.1 so I can plug my S-PDiF Toslink Dolby 5.1 headphones straight in and get balanced sounds within my head.

When I type AC3 to S-PDIF converter on Ebay, there are a couple of $20-40 boxes. Apparently the only outputs on these are 6 distinct RCA speakers, which is worhtless to me.

DVDs and higher formats start out in S-PDIF Dolby 5.1, or DTS 5.1 (which I know I can't deal with with my current setup), so it's a simple pass through, which the SDP-E800 does correctly. Most devices on ebay convert S-PDIF (they list AC3 but it doesn't look like it does AC3 RF correctly) to 6 discrete RCA formats.

I guess I could use a 6 Discrete RCA to S-PDIF adapter, if such a beast exists.

Finally, am I using the term right? S-PDIF is a single electronic code, either in optical signals or something similar to RCA cables (coaxial), that is coded to send 6-8 signals worth of information in on coded, non-analagous signal, that has to be decoded? I know i'm not close to exact, but am I analyzing it right?

And Admin, I may sound like the crazy Gaming Headphone guy, but there may be other headphone guys looking to listen to their AC3 movies in their gaming headphones, just like me. And maybe some of them heard Laser Discs are the granddaddy of modern surround sound formats, and may want to compare back to back vs VHS. If they can easily hear the surround sound, then shouldn't the information be out there? Likewise if it's too much of a hassle, would warning of headphone unfriendliness be appropriate too, so they don't have to waste their money on an AC3 port if it's a pain to get it working right on headphones, and just learn to live with "ring surround" of Dolby surround, (as opposed to "sphere surround") which is an uncompressed version of Dolby Pro Logic, which STILL, despite my problems, sounds better than my VHS letterbox copy or the ridiculous "original version" on DVD of Star Wars with only 2.0 flat stereo and working off aged film stock instead of THX restored footage? Even without a proper AC3 RF converter (which you can't even use until the Special Edition anyway.), it's the best version of Star Wars ever, (or at least before Greedo shot first), but only if you watch it on a CRT TV.

I don't go bashing communal surround systems. I admit it's a hundred times cheaper (and a million times more sanitary) to present to large audiences, hence why theaters don't pass out individual headphones. I admit it's close enough for non-gaming stuff where if you don't have to pinpoint a sound for the purposes of aiming or dodging as a matter of virtual life or death, it doesn't ruin the experience if the sound is a couple of degrees in angle off; where the king spot effect is so minor of an annoyance, that it's almost negligible, except in a specific gaming environment where your virtual life depends on hearing accurate direction.

I just don't want to pay for or program a communal set for a maximum audience of 2 if a headphone surround set would work just as nicely.

Drive Ins use low-power FM to wirelessly reach your car in surround sound, and if it advertises car surround, it probably has similar 2-track acoustic encoding scheme to make it sound surround in 2 physical speaker signals, and that is centered around your car interior. A headphone is like a drive in movie with an acoustically coded stereo track which, when listened to in headphones, have the desired effect.

Finally, why the long posts? I'm on Social security disability, with no job. I've got to do something, I've got time to do something, so yakking on these forum is like finding community. You may be my rival in terms of Communal vs Personal surround. But we should be LDDB friends for wanting to hear great soundtracks and watching the 2^90 colors on a CRT TV presented by Laser Discs. I got thrift store rummaging, feeling the album covers for plastic instead of cardboard/paper, probably the quickest way to pinpoint laser discs mixed among LP albums.

You have two ears. You have two speakers. There is already a two channel mix on the LD. You don’t need any gear. You already have the BEST way there is to listen to a movie on headphones. They already made the two channel mix you want and put it on the LD.

To be clear, I’m not trying tell you that the stereo track is “good enough” or that it will do in a pinch, I’m saying it is THE BEST thing to use for your purposes. AC-3’s only main advantages were isolated bass and aggressive multichannel steering, neither of which your headphones use. The actual sound quality of AC-3 is worse than Digital Stereo and who knows what f-ed up artifacts would result from the equipment stackup you want to try.

It may be interesting to see but it will cost money and sound worse so it’s more valuable as a stunt than anything else because it will for sure sound worse than the stereo track.

Hey, can I get a thanks

Seriously... HOW MANY TIMES are you going to ask the SAME QUESTION ???

It's called an AC3RF demodulator, you already had multiple resources provided to you but you choose to ignore them.

You want SPDIF that can both output AC3 5.1 and DTS 5.1, get a Pioneer RFD-1 (just sold my last one for US$240) and read again the Help section on AC3RF.

Julien

Hi Tripletopper,

You are incorrect in regards to your processor's capability. See my photos below.





As you can see, there is only an optical connection from the Sony, SDP-E800 to the Denon (no six channel analog output used) and it decodes fine.





Such a product does not exists. And as I have said above, you have what you need to do what you want to do. You just need to figure out what you are doing wrong in respect to setting up your processor with the headphones.

Trippletopper...

as ldfan very kindly illustrated for you, the e800 most definitely WILL OUTPUT AC3 through toslink, I recommended it to you because I own one myself, currently it is hooked up exactly the way ldfan has shown in his pictures. I do not use the the 6 channel outputs, right now there is nothing in my setup that will receive analog 6 channel, I've never used it, you don't need it.

I suggest you take the time to read up on your device and figure out what you're doing wrong, there are a ton of posts with info on the e800, as well as the owners manual here: http://manuals.lddb.com/AC3RF_Demodulators/Sony_SDP-E800-EN-FR-ES-PT.pdf

Look at page 18.

It says that the AC3 cannot be recorded through the digital output. The repairman said nothing was wrong. But he didn't have a Laser Disc player with AC3 and appropriate media to test it. So now I'm wondering if it's a bad toslink cable (I tried swapping them) or if it's a setting on the device, or if the Digital out cannot translate an AC3RF into SPDIF, or whether if you try to record the signal on a DAT or MD you get gobbledygook.

I guess I can try my universal remote and see if I can change a setting.

If the toslink sometimes work and sometimes it doesn't, it might be a faulty toslink cable.

Thank you, I'll give it a second thought, and if it works, I'll thank you two officially.

Of course you can't record it. It would be garbage to a "recording device". But we're talking about connecting your "headphones" to it, right?

You can't simply read everything "literally" when it comes to consumer electronics and other products. I did not know that my Sony, SDP-EP9ES (my other processor) was able to decode AC3 on the optical output until I tried it.






If you have a red light coming out of the toslink plug and cable, it should be working fine.





This processor has no setting you need to change. It takes in the signal and automatically decodes what is given.





What do you expect? The coding is "AC3". Of course it will be gobbledygook. DAT and MD only accept a "PCM" signal.

But let's get back to the heart of this issue you have; you want 'headphones" to work on it. Why do you keep bringing up "recorder"? Just forget about it.





Like I said above, there is no setting that needs changing. Read the manual and it will tell you that. You are making stuff up every time you say this.

I didn't think you intended to record anything, the only way that would interfere is something in your turtle beach (I assume you are using) is triggering the copy protection and blocking the signal, whether or not that's even possible I have no idea.

Make sure you have the right input selected, you need to cycle through input 1 until you see AC3-RF as shown, you don't need a remote, just push the input 1 button on front.

It's easy to test the optical cable, the end lights up red with a signal going through it, when everything is hooked up correctly and running, if you pull the toslink from your turtle and it's lit red then you are fine up to there, and the problem is at turtle, if it isn't lit, you have issues with the cable or elsewhere.

This is the main problem for a lot on SS disability in the USA.
They are lonely, want to get into an expensive hobby with a low or no disposable income, then they keep changing their questions on what to do and how to do it.

Triple, you really need to just buy it or not buy it and stop posting these mini novellas as questions.
Its not like this technology is changing on a daily basis, its all done, just go and buy it and see if it works for you, if not then sell it on ebay.

Hey rein-o.

Some people have more money than time. They need to save time, so they buy an adapter they know works. I have more time than money. It behoves me to get a good deal. So I got to ask more complex and longer quesitons. And so I don't waste your times telling me things I already know, I tell you what I think, so you can see what you think I'm right on and don't waste time giving the obvious first answer to the noob question, unless it really IS a noob question, and clear up any misconceptions or wrong information,

And when I stated the laser disc hobby, I found Laser Discs and players at Garage Sales and thrift stores.

Unfortunately, we're entering a dark age in thrift stores. Gone are the days when an enthusiasts buys stuff based on their own natural knowledge of stuff, because they either want it, or they can turn junk into jewel. Now I see someone going through books scanning through books zapping the UPC and having it search the ebay prices, and then buzz when it's a dud and ring a bell when it's a jackpot. They were like a checkout clerk in terms of efficiency. That's someone who's in it for the money and NOT in it for the Joy of the retro hobby. That's probably the reason why most thrift stores no longer have good movie and game media in those places anymore, unless you're REALLY lucky.

I actually make MORE money on Social Security disability than I did working. And if you want to question my disability, rein-o, guess which people were in the federal executive, both houses of legislature, as well as state house, senate, and governor. We've had times of various splits, and unity within the federal and MY state government on BOTH sides of the aisle in my lifetime. Do you think it was split parties, or one-party rule in the US and my state, and if the second, do you think it's the party that's historically the party that hands out Social Security like candy, or the party that asks you to prove it 10 ways from Sunday? Before you answer, I'd like to say I've been in special schools half my childhood, I was on powerful meds before they were handing it out like candy. To give you an idea how old I am, the first video game console I owned was Colecovision, back in its heyday, and i had to wait until my birthday, so that was childhood.

Yes I admitted the harsh medicines, but it just to show doctors and science as well as compassion can bring forth good people from bad genes and/or environment

Why the long posts? Forums are a higher ping medium than broadcasting, telephone and other modern media (it could be hours or days until you catch up). Posting is more like a 2-way book than it is a phone conversation. I just thought longer posts were tolerated compared to calling technical support. People tolerate novels. People tolerate back-and-forth letter writing conversations, why not longer forum posts? I thought I was demonstrating I was not a noob by saying the things I tried and the results I got.

I'm trying to be friendly. I use a " .) " when I make a joke. I don't force something down your throat, like my headphones. I just give an alternative that I use and can comment on. Every contributor has to be good for something, and not just a whipping boy. I concede points that are true, because there is a range of acceptable behavior. There's no one right movie or video game to like, just ones with larger communities than others. Different people have different ear abilities and different needs. My mom is starting to go deaf, and the headphones help her hear words in the movies so the plot elements that verbal heavy would not slip by. If you have a good communal surround system, and are just watching movies and TV, go for it. I'm not trying to convince ANYONE to buy headphones you don't need. Just don't expect it to work in the world of gaming with enough accuracy to be instinctive. I'm just here to say, if you have a gaming headphone already, you might have the right equipment to enjoy movies just as well as a communal surround user.

Also no one is commenting on the good of what I say. Everyone insults. When I say something wrong, or unconventional, people are quick to criticize. When I say something right, they say no duh, or say I waste text, or just ignore it. I believe forums are a more permanent 2-way conversation with longer messages and worse ping time. Burt I sincerely like to thank sjoerg, for recommending the device. Unfortunately this is so tangential that this conversation can't give thanks either. I'll suggest something to admin after this.

I'll just consult the Sony online book to see if there is anything that can help me. It doesn't specifically say it converts AC3 RF to S-PDIF Toslink Dolby, I'll look elsewhere, and try another toslink cable on Tuesday, May 29, 2018.

Everyone is on earth for a reason. I don't know what my reason is, but I want to make enough money where I can survive on my own, but not so much to corrupt me. I know more friends are better than less, closer friends are better than remote strangers, and there's a tiem to be alone, and a time to be together. When I called Pioneer's help line, they thought AC3 RF was a competitor's technology in something unrelated to movies. I had to get a call back from the manager who researched to AC3, and had to apologize. They told me another company used the term "AC3 RF" for something unrelated to Laser DIscs, and said it wasn't their technology. I thought the LDDB board would understand laser discs, which you do. I haven't read other forums so I don't know how vicious it gets.

Trust me, if I would have seen posts about Gaming Headsets as they relate to laser discs, I would have opened my eyes and shut my mouth. Saved me being a target of hate. But since these questions weren't asked, I had to ask them. If I didn't ask them, who would? Now this conversations are immortalized so I am the shield that absorbs the slings and arrows of all the headphone haters. All you have to search is gaming headphones and laser discs on LDDB.com I'm in every conversation.

There are different TYPES of 2 channel mixes.

Some mixes only care about left and right, becuase there are 2 tracks. Any other more complex 2 channel mix must incorporate the intended market.

Some are optimized for front speakers, like Q Sound found in Sega Genesis and Saturn Street Fighter games and Sonic CD. They are optimize for communal listening. there is a king spot in front of the TV, and the speakers have to set up a specific way to work. But it does work.

Others, first started in Nintendo games, were called 2-channel headphone tracks. Instead of forcing your surrounding to conform to an ideal, headphones are more alike to each other compared to random average living rooms TV setups to each other. This was considered experimental. So they made it switchable in the options. There were usually 3 modes: mono, stereo speakers, and stereo headphones. Though it was more for effects than practical gamplay information, it did give good 2D sound.

But it wasn't until 3D gaming where you got a competitive advantage by using them. PS2 and Xbox Original used Dolby Digital 5.1 sound. Then, during that era, Turtle Beach thought of using Dolby Headphone technology to convert 5.1 tracks into a headphone-mixed 2 track surround sound and do it in a less proprietary way than Nintendo had. Then suddenly people were winning tournaments because they heard audio cues from different directions and dodged things blind, and scanned quicker to their targets. it's a legal performance enhancement. Don't knock it until you try it.

I understand movies are different from games. In games of virtual life and death, accurately blindly locating something fives you an advantage. And headphones make sure you are the center of your own stage. Communal surround sets had to be "optimized" for your sitdown situation. The headphones eliminated the extra varables of room measurement that, if mis-adjusted, would let your hearing instincts not accurately reflect the reality of the game well enough.

Movies are more sharable than games. That's why their stereo mixes are optimized for 2 speakers in front, with only the most extreme L/R differences being noticable. They are optimized for communal viewing. The 2 track is the basic adequate mix for communal viewing without special equipment. (the speakers built into the TV.)

Any game that has 2 players on one machine and TV combo have to make sure the audio doesn't favor one perspective over the other. most of the games the audio benefits are either one player, or network linked with a unique perspective for everyone.

The modern Dolby 5.1 and higher mixes assume it's mixed in order for the king spot to be accurate. But you won't notice a 2 degree difference if you are on one extreme side or corner or the other of your home theater or a private movie theater. Maybe you would, but it won't throw off your enjoyment of the movie. Communal's shortcomings are minor in terms of accuracy in return for being 100 times cheaper and a million times more sanitary.

In games, a 2 degree difference can be a difference between virtual life and virtual death. If you're not much of a gamer, play legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild. It's probably the most mainstream for non-gamers game that uses this technique and where it comes in handy. Even though it's Nintendo's proprietary mix, meaning they didn't pay Dolby Labs or the DTS company, the 2 channel mix sounds accurate in 3D if you put on your headphones. You could hear a goblin sneaking up on you, and if you hear it good enough, you can turn and strike, or if you hear an bow being pulled back, you can tell where he is and dodge.

Nintendo did it first with SNES games. Turtle Beach just standardized it and made it easy or developers by using a Dolby 5.1-> Dolby Heaphones converter built into their devices. It standardizes it, like a game development engine has common commands to cut redundant code and reinventing the wheel. Now you record/program audio in Dolby 5.1, and you get a 2-track headphone mix for free.

I know that this is the "Everything not even remotely related to LDs..." general discussion tab but can we please stay on topic regarding just the issue with the processor. I think the whole discussion of the headphone surround has already been discussed in other threads.




Good luck with that. These manuals are almost never written well enough to detail every tiny thing about what a product can or cannot do. Maybe you should just post a picture of what you have been trying to do and it would make this issue of yours much easier to resolve for us.

Well....
My post has nothing to do with whether you are legit or not to get SS it has to do with your too long of posts.

If a person does or does not have issues they do not need to make long posts period.
You are trying to make something happen that nobody else in history has tried to make.
You are trying to make 5 speakers fit into 2 a left and right.

Surround sound is a sense feeling that you get, makes you feel like you are in the action.
While headphones may make you feel that you really aren't getting the same sense as feeling like you are hearing the sound on screen ping behind you since you would have a speaker behind you and that's how the sound was mixed if mixed correctly.

Learn what surround sound is supposed to be then get the system you can, if you can't get speakers like you have posted in the past the you really can't get the sense of what surround sound is.

I'm sorry you just figured out the people at thrift stores are doing what they are doing, they have been doing these things for the past 8 years or so with barcode scanners, checking items in the back for correct prices before they hit the store floor, making sure they don't sell real silver for the price of stainless steel etc.

I can explain how a 2 track stereo track sounds 3 dimensionally accurate enough where I can turn and face the enemy sneaking up behind me. Instead of having 5 distinct locations sound is coming from, Dolby Headphones assumes your are the center, mixes the sound so echo and reverb around a generally assumed and known acoustical shape, scale, and location, namely hemispheres around the 2 ears at a close distance. Thats the science behind headphone mixes. Though some headphones have multiple sound sources, but are more expensive, and have generally fell out of favor, so the acoustic reverb types are more popular.

If you've got some other explanation as to why gamers from noobs to experts gain an advantage in certain games by hearing behind them well, I'd like to hear it.. And not just an on/off state, but a direction and distance, in 3 dimensions, well enough to accurately face the enemy and swing/fire and hit them before they hit you?

I got introduced to them by my friend, Jamal "Zophar321" Nickens, when he had free use of headphones from Turtle Beach's competitor at the time, Triton, during WCG Ultimate Gamer Season 1. He liked them so much, he bought a pair for his 360. He told me, in some games where 3D hearing behind you was important, your game was improved by hearing the game inside surround headsets. That how I got turned on to them. And my movies sounded better as a result, too.

Do you want me to bring HIM into this conversation?

To quote myself, that's why I give long posts. Short enough for you?

I think it's now time to lock this topic.

Once again, it goes nowhere and the topic in question isn't even being discussed in any constructive way at this point (if you can't keep it on topic; it just gets tiresome to read).

I leave it up to Julien.

Back to the topic: I think I may have found the reason why the AC3 adapter didn't work. The exact same thing was happening with my Xbox One Optical Port. There was red light coming through a toslink switcher and unplugging it at the Turtle Beach end had a red light coming out, but the sound was zero. Then I switched it to my Xbox 360 and sound was coming out in surround. Then I moved it back and it didn't work.

Then I decided to do something. Since I have a mechanical toslink switch, it has a lot of moving parts, and figured there might be an alignment problem. If it's not lined up close enough, it might fail. Therefore I decided to press in the unlock again and let the lock rest. Then I turned it to the left and right and let ti rest in the center without pushing the unlock button. Then the headphones started to work.

I guess that's a lesson to me to not buy a mechanical Toslink switch. They are way to fussy. I'll try one of those electronic ones where you press a button to change the toslink input. I see a whole bunch of 3 input ones, but I prefer a 4 input one. For $20 including shipping, I can get one on ebay with 4 inputs, 2 outputs, and a button on the unit, (Apparently no remote, I guess I'll have to get up, press the button, and burn a few extra calories, and trust me, any opportunity I have to burn a few calories in the course of the day, I'll take. I need it.)

Now I have to wait until Friday to get it. (Wake Up. Wake Up. Wake Up. It's the First of the Month.) But I won't give a final report until I try that specifically.

Don't lock this forum yet. I'm typing in more updates on my sitch. Anyone want to comment on mechanical Toslink Switchers? Everyone else think they are inferior? Does someone say they are superior to Electronic ones? Makes no difference? How likely is that to solve the issue based on the previous conversation?

So you are trying to get AC3 out of your Xbox?