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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2018, 14:39 
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SoZ: Yeah, it was true, Audioboyz, back me up on this.


Yeah In Australia Teac was not Teac/Tascam but a crappy cheap supermarket re-badge brand. I was aware it was something very different overseas because one of my high school friend's older brother was a real Hi-Fi buff who saved his money for a Teac open reel deck (instead of the 18" subs for their car most guys his age would have!)
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2018, 16:39 
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At least when you bought a Sears Beta, you knew to buy blanks and buy and rent pre-recorded stuff in Beta format. Same with a JCPenney VHS.

Did someone not buy an Atari 2600 because they had a Sears Telegames, or vice versa?

For Telegames, was Sears branding a net positive, where it kept Telegames owners from buying 2600 media elsewhere, or a net negative, prevented 2600 owners from other purchase places from buying Telegames stuff at Sears? Did Sears admit their Telegames was a 2600 compatible, or did they keep up appearances that the Telegames was a Sears exclusive system?

You couldn't pull off that charade for a Sears Beta. I don't think Sears rented pre-recorded media. They just sold VCRs and blanks. You have to admit there's no brand confusion when it comes to linear media compared to interactive media.
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2018, 17:04 
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SEARS did sell pre-recorded VHS in the late-80's, at least direct from their catalog, anyway...
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2018, 22:27 
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tripletopper wrote:
At least when you bought a Sears Beta, you knew to buy blanks and buy and rent pre-recorded stuff in Beta format. Same with a JCPenney VHS.

Did someone not buy an Atari 2600 because they had a Sears Telegames, or vice versa?

For Telegames, was Sears branding a net positive, where it kept Telegames owners from buying 2600 media elsewhere, or a net negative, prevented 2600 owners from other purchase places from buying Telegames stuff at Sears? Did Sears admit their Telegames was a 2600 compatible, or did they keep up appearances that the Telegames was a Sears exclusive system?

You couldn't pull off that charade for a Sears Beta. I don't think Sears rented pre-recorded media. They just sold VCRs and blanks. You have to admit there's no brand confusion when it comes to linear media compared to interactive media.

I highly doubt Sears selling their rebadged Atari console did much to keep people wanting to buy software for it from buying it somewhere else. Especially if Sears didn't have the game you wanted.

I only knew one person when I was young who had a Sears Telegames. They knew that it just an Atari 2600 in a Sears box.
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2018, 02:08 
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elahrairrah wrote:
tripletopper wrote:
At least when you bought a Sears Beta, you knew to buy blanks and buy and rent pre-recorded stuff in Beta format. Same with a JCPenney VHS.

Did someone not buy an Atari 2600 because they had a Sears Telegames, or vice versa?

For Telegames, was Sears branding a net positive, where it kept Telegames owners from buying 2600 media elsewhere, or a net negative, prevented 2600 owners from other purchase places from buying Telegames stuff at Sears? Did Sears admit their Telegames was a 2600 compatible, or did they keep up appearances that the Telegames was a Sears exclusive system?

You couldn't pull off that charade for a Sears Beta. I don't think Sears rented pre-recorded media. They just sold VCRs and blanks. You have to admit there's no brand confusion when it comes to linear media compared to interactive media.

I highly doubt Sears selling their rebadged Atari console did much to keep people wanting to buy software for it from buying it somewhere else. Especially if Sears didn't have the game you wanted.

I only knew one person when I was young who had a Sears Telegames. They knew that it just an Atari 2600 in a Sears box.


So the only Sears Telegames owner bought 2600 games elsewhere. Did anyone who bought a 2600 elsewhere not buy a game at Sears game because it was a Telegames model game and not an Atari 2600 model game?

And Sears had a few exclusive games, like Stellar Track and Steeplechase. Steeplechase appears on modern Atari 2600 collections. Stellar track was too much like Star Trek to escape copyright lawyers, so Atari never released it for a modern compilation.

This is problably the wrong place to ask it since thisis primarilry about linear media. But I'm sure no one was confused about store brands with linear media, since Sears was Sears Beta and JCPenney was JCPenney VHS.

I thought someone less familiar with video games migth have avoided buying a Sears game copy when they had an Atari machine or vice versa. So far the vote is 1 sears owner not sticking with Sears. I'll go post that on AtariAge.com . Since I can't start a poll here now and a new topic would be wasteful.
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2018, 03:31 
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2018, 03:34 
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Take the Store Brand vs Name Brand Movie and Game Media poll at http://atariage.com/forums/topic/282719-store-brand-vs-name-brand-game-and-movie-media/ I can't add a poll here once the topic strated, and was curious about mythophiles enntering the ludo-universe Did stroe brand game cplayers confuse movie lovers who had kids into games? Did it favor store brands or punish them? Well find out.
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2018, 04:24 
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Can't really contribute much to that poll since I didn't own a store brand console. I only knew someone who owned one. Two now that I think about it. My cousin had the Sears version too. I remember going to Kiddie City with him and my uncle to pickup a new game--Riddle of the Sphinx.

Not Sears. Kiddie City had a much better selection.

One thing I do remember from Sears was that they had a really nice kiosk for the Mattel Intellivision (my brother and I got one of those in '82.) I remember playing Space Hawk on one before getting it.
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2018, 16:29 
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Yeah, Victor also sold a "V Saturn". Also don't forget the Panasonic Qube or whatever it was called, a Gamecube that played DVDs.

After that though...yeah, not much of that phenomenon of other brands selling game systems. There's absolutely NO profit in selling a game machine for anyone now. Its a suicide game.
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2018, 17:35 
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elahrairrah wrote:
Can't really contribute much to that poll since I didn't own a store brand console. I only knew someone who owned one. Two now that I think about it. My cousin had the Sears version too. I remember going to Kiddie City with him and my uncle to pickup a new game--Riddle of the Sphinx.

Not Sears. Kiddie City had a much better selection.

One thing I do remember from Sears was that they had a really nice kiosk for the Mattel Intellivision (my brother and I got one of those in '82.) I remember playing Space Hawk on one before getting it.


Yes you can, you can answer whether you avoided Sears with your name brand console because Sears was only selling Telegames at one point.
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 19 Sep 2018, 23:18 
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elahrairrah wrote:
Can't really contribute much to that poll since I didn't own a store brand console. I only knew someone who owned one. Two now that I think about it. My cousin had the Sears version too. I remember going to Kiddie City with him and my uncle to pickup a new game--Riddle of the Sphinx.



I remember Riddle of the Sphinx! That was a fun game. Loved the Myst games as well.
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2019, 03:04 
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elahrairrah wrote:
tripletopper wrote:
Now it's simple. No one makes a "Gamestop Micromax" a "Walmart Funvision" or names like that. Xbox Ones are clearly labeled Xbox Ones everywhere you buy them. The last clone system that was then-comtemporary was the JVC X-Eye, a version of the Sega Genesis + Sega CD. What's with the special branding in the 70s? Aren't you glad that's gone?

I think the Hitachi branded HiSaturn and HiSaturn-Navi (versions of the Sega Saturn) would be the last rebadged video game consoles. Granted the name is kinda close to the original, but they're still different enough.

As far as special branding, I dunno. Not really sure if I'm glad it's gone. If anything it shows how loyal you were to a certain department store if you bought their brand of products over the actual branded product. That's definitely something will NEVER come back with the death of so many department stores thanks to the internet.



The latest I can think of is the Panasonic Q. Gamecube/DVD player. Not for me, but pretty neat.
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2019, 17:56 
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ace2184 wrote:
elahrairrah wrote:
tripletopper wrote:
Now it's simple. No one makes a "Gamestop Micromax" a "Walmart Funvision" or names like that. Xbox Ones are clearly labeled Xbox Ones everywhere you buy them. The last clone system that was then-comtemporary was the JVC X-Eye, a version of the Sega Genesis + Sega CD. What's with the special branding in the 70s? Aren't you glad that's gone?

I think the Hitachi branded HiSaturn and HiSaturn-Navi (versions of the Sega Saturn) would be the last rebadged video game consoles. Granted the name is kinda close to the original, but they're still different enough.

As far as special branding, I dunno. Not really sure if I'm glad it's gone. If anything it shows how loyal you were to a certain department store if you bought their brand of products over the actual branded product. That's definitely something will NEVER come back with the death of so many department stores thanks to the internet.



The latest I can think of is the Panasonic Q. Gamecube/DVD player. Not for me, but pretty neat.


In one sense that’s kind of what I’m talking about, in that they are authorized clones, trying to use the 3DO model, except Sega was at the head of JVC, Pioneer, (for the Genesis LaserActive adapter) and Hitachi, and Nintendo with Panasonic. Panasonic needed something after the 3DO failed.

But in the other sense, there is no Panasonic, Pioneer, Hitachi, or JVC STORE. I’m talking about STORE BRANDS, like the Sears Telegames and Super Telegames, the Radio Shack Tandyvision, and Montgomery Ward’s store brand Bally. (What did Montgomery Ward call their Astrocades anyway? Anyone know?)

Also there are Zeller’s games in Canada which were complete repackaged knockoffs of third party 2600 games.

Finally Columbia House had a video game console to go with the their lineup of "Record Club games", I believe most of their games were Parker Bros, CBS, Activision, and Imagic. No Atari Brand games. The Columbia House game player was basically a Coleco Gemini with a new tag. Those are extra rare Geminis.

Now the weird question. If you have a store brand, some people might not games from other stores with the name brand, wrongly thinking Sears Telegames and Atari 2600 are 2 separate systems. Which is good for the store. Of course the reverse could be true where Sears failed to attract buyers from other stores with them wrongly thinking the Sears Telegames and Atari 2600 are 2 separate systems.

It could be a net positive if more Sears buyers stayed loyal to Sears than non-Sears buyers avoided Sears. It could be a net negative if flipped. Same with Tandy, same with Wards. Anyone have figures of console sale share vs game sale share between store brand and name brand?

And my other point is the Sears Betamax was called just that, the Sears Betamax. They didn’t call it the Sears Telemovies or some other name to screw up the format wars. Was the JCPenney VHS called the JCPenny VHS, or was it given a proprietary name? Were the movies either sold or rented under the Sears or JCPenney names? Also were there any store brand Selectavision or Laser Disc players or programming?

I thought Ward was as big on Laser Disc as they were on Astrocade. Is there an MW Movie Player? Was it called a Laser Disc or a proprietary name? Were the media under a Proprietary name?
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2019, 18:08 
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tripletopper wrote:
In one sense that’s kind of what I’m talking about, in that they are authorized clones, trying to use the 3DO model, except Sega was at the head of JVC, Pioneer, (for the Genesis LaserActive adapter) and Hitachi, and Nintendo with Panasonic. Panasonic needed something after the 3DO failed.

But in the other sense, there is no Panasonic, Pioneer, Hitachi, or JVC STORE. I’m talking about STORE BRANDS, like the Sears Telegames and Super Telegames, the Radio Shack Tandyvision, and Montgomery Ward’s store brand Bally. (What did Montgomery Ward call their Astrocades anyway? Anyone know?)

Also there are Zeller’s games in Canada which were complete repackaged knockoffs of third party 2600 games.

Finally Columbia House had a video game console to go with the their lineup of "Record Club games", I believe most of their games were Parker Bros, CBS, Activision, and Imagic. No Atari Brand games. The Columbia House game player was basically a Coleco Gemini with a new tag. Those are extra rare Geminis.

Now the weird question. If you have a store brand, some people might not games from other stores with the name brand, wrongly thinking Sears Telegames and Atari 2600 are 2 separate systems. Which is good for the store. Of course the reverse could be true where Sears failed to attract buyers from other stores with them wrongly thinking the Sears Telegames and Atari 2600 are 2 separate systems.

It could be a net positive if more Sears buyers stayed loyal to Sears than non-Sears buyers avoided Sears. It could be a net negative if flipped. Same with Tandy, same with Wards. Anyone have figures of console sale share vs game sale share between store brand and name brand?

And my other point is the Sears Betamax was called just that, the Sears Betamax. They didn’t call it the Sears Telemovies or some other name to screw up the format wars. Was the JCPenney VHS called the JCPenny VHS, or was it given a proprietary name? Were the movies either sold or rented under the Sears or JCPenney names? Also were there any store brand Selectavision or Laser Disc players or programming?

I thought Ward was as big on Laser Disc as they were on Astrocade. Is there an MW Movie Player? Was it called a Laser Disc or a proprietary name? Were the media under a Proprietary name?

Actually Sears called their Betamax VCRs "Betavision"

Only store brand LD player I can think of (and was probably mentioned previously in this thread, but I'm not going to read through all of it) would be Radio Shack with their "Realistic" brand (and possibly "Tandy" as the Laserdisc Archive has an entry under that label.)

Don't know of any Montgomery Ward brand LD players (despite their in store video programming on LD that has been discovered), but they did have their own CED player:

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Montgomery-Ward ... 1832736425

On a related note, my stepgrandmother once owned a MW TV. She lost the remote for it, so I called MW customer service to see if we can get another or at least find out what brand codes we could use if we got a universal remote.

Guy on the CS line wasn't understanding me when I was telling him the brand of the TV is Montgomery Ward.

Him: "No no, I know you bought the TV from Montgomery Ward, but I need to know the brand name. It should say the brand name on it somewhere."

Me: "I don't know how many times and different ways I can tell you this, but there is no brand name on the TV other than Montgomery Ward. It's a Montgomery Ward branded TV."

Him: "So it's a Montgomery Ward brand TV?"

Me: "Yes, Montgomery Ward TV"

Him: "Well, I learned something today! Montgomery Ward made their own TVs!"

Me: "I doubt that they made the TV themselves. It's probably by some other TV manufacturer and the Ward's brand is just slapped on it."

Him: "Huh, didn't know they did that."

Me: ":sighs: is there someone else in customer service there I can talk to?"


Last edited by elahrairrah on 08 Mar 2019, 18:16, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2019, 18:15 
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Those store brand players are just another player with store branding on them because they thought it would help move product.
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2019, 18:43 
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To answer the core question here, “how many people were so stupid and trusting of a store that they litterally thought that their Sears system was something other than a 2600?”, I’m pretty sure it’s like the OP and two other dumb uncles. I was like 6 when that stuff hit the market and I wasn’t fooled for a second. That goes double for anything that’s plays something with a VHS or Beta logo. The compatibility is ensured by the licensing of the format and that’s something stated on every blank or prerecorded thing. Also, with there only being a few formats back then INcompatability wasn’t assumed like it later became. Now we just assume some jerk corporation is breaking stuff by default but in the 70s if the thing fit in the machine it was usually good enough.

EDIT: some jank punctuation in there...


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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2019, 20:16 
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signofzeta wrote:
To answer the core question here, “how many people were so stupid and trusting of a store that they litterally thought that their Sears system was something other than a 2600 I’m pretty sure it’s like the OP and two other dumb uncles”. I was like 6 when that stuff hit the market and I wasn’t fooled for a second. That goes double for anything that’s plays something with a VHS or Beta logo. The compatibility is ensured by the licensing of the format and that’s something stated on every blank or prerecorded thing. Also, with there only being a few formats back then INcompatability wasn’t assumed like it later became. Now we just assume some jerk corporation is breaking stuff by default by in the 70s if the thing fit in the machine it was usually good enough.


Oh, SignOfZeta, you assume too much.

I never experienced video games until about 1981-2-ish, and my brother and I were laser focused on a Colecovision, which didn’t have a store version. I was about 7, and saw that the 2600 games (especially from Activision, Imagic, Parker Bros, and Coleco) in the stores that were not a party to these store brand wars (places like Electronics Boutique, Children’s Palace, and Kay Bees, as well a a one-off movie-and-game seller-and-renter, Video Replay in Akron Ohio, as well as a local chain, Cap’n Video) had the words "for Atari (wasn’t sure if the term 2600 or VCS was used, depends on if there was a 5200 at the time of printing) and Sears Telegames System". That’s when I became aware that the Sears Telegames was a rebranded Atari. If there were any attempt at loyalty branding, by the time I was aware as a game consumer, the cover has been blown by third party game makers advertising intercompatibility, in an attempt to hit all markets, but not spend money on an Atari version and a separate Sears variation, in terms of packaging.

If I’m right, Atari-branded cartridges didn’t mention Sears. Likewise the Sears did not mention Atari except in tiny print for the copyright. It was the third party cartridge makers that cleared the smokescreen.
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2019, 21:25 
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I don’t remember any attempt to obfuscate the identical nature of Sears and Atari systems. It was just store branding, something stores did when they were strong. A blender, some ball point pens, a cassette recorder, just store brands. My JC Penny VCR said right on the back of it that it was made for JC Penny by RCA in Japan where neither company existed. No secrets or social firewall were implied or recognized by anyone I knew. If some kid had the “Darth Vader” version of the 2600 it just meant his parents had a Sears credit card. If you bought a “Dodge” but the VIN started with a J you know dang well they had someone else build the entire thing and bring it into the US.

By the late 80s store brands were considered super uncool even when they weren’t junk so places like K Mart would move stuff from Sony or whoever to attract snobs. By the late 90s KMart had acquired the Westinghouse name to put on its bespoke low end kitchen gadgets and I think maybe even radios and TVs. Now stores invent fake names to make it look like it’s not a store brand item when it really is, Harbor Freight is comically amazing at that.
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2019, 22:22 
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signofzeta wrote:
I don’t remember any attempt to obfuscate the identical nature of Sears and Atari systems. It was just store branding, something stores did when they were strong. A blender, some ball point pens, a cassette recorder, just store brands. My JC Penny VCR said right on the back of it that it was made for JC Penny by RCA in Japan where neither company existed. No secrets or social firewall were implied or recognized by anyone I knew. If some kid had the “Darth Vader” version of the 2600 it just meant his parents had a Sears credit card. If you bought a “Dodge” but the VIN started with a J you know dang well they had someone else build the entire thing and bring it into the US.

By the late 80s store brands were considered super uncool even when they weren’t junk so places like K Mart would move stuff from Sony or whoever to attract snobs. By the late 90s KMart had acquired the Westinghouse name to put on its bespoke low end kitchen gadgets and I think maybe even radios and TVs. Now stores invent fake names to make it look like it’s not a store brand item when it really is, Harbor Freight is comically amazing at that.


Well I have some Viodeo evidence. If you search in YouTube under the words "Sears Telegames Commercial" You’ll see commercials.

One was from 1977, and it specifically said "Sold only At Sears"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjX2gGz8NhM

Here is a Sears Days sale. There is no specific date attributed to it, but I assume it’s a later commercial because they said "the Atari compatible Sears Video Arcade"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf9Y0Qrj0HY

Telegames was its original name and the Video Arcade was its new name, so if we find the date Sears changed its name of its 2600, it would have to be after that date. But notice they didn’t specify the "Atari 2600 comaptible..." which means it it probably came out before the 5200 was released.

But the first commercial said "Sold only at Sears" So unless the Sears had a timed exclusive, Sears was trying to steer people away from buying an Atari, at least one named as such from a different store. Then again the only cartridge console competitors at the time were the Fairchild Channel F, and maybe, the Bally Astrocade.

As to whether store branding was a net positive or a net negative, on this website: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/282719 ... vie-media/ I recently added an analysis of the unscientific poll giving it about a few months.

If the poll is indicative of the public as a whole, gamers were more loyal than movie owners. Movies made no difference whether you were store brand or name brand, an equal number of both brand names and store brands were were equally loyal and turncoat.

But gamers were loyal. If this poll is an indicator, 2 out of 3 brand name owners dodged the Sears and other store media, but 100% of the store-brand owners were loyal to the store. Of course I know the sample size is so small it’s not scientific, (among other reasons), but if a poll on Atari Age, a website about retro games, said that, then maybe there was a juvenile perception that a Sears Telegames and an Atari VCS are different.

The 1977 commercial definitely wants people to know you can only buy this at Sears.

The later commercial advertised it as "the Atari compatible..."

Maybe it was more of a net positive in 1977 and later, when the third parties let the cat out of the bag, it was a net negative.
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 Post subject: Re: Store Brand Media Players
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2019, 00:02 
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Don’t underestimate the power of a store credit card. Back then not every store in America had one. “Sold only at Sears” translates to “I can afford that NOW instead of putting it on layaway like the poor people at KMart do.”

Before the 5200 was released there was no need to specify which Atari it was. It was the only Atari. Soon the only Atari would be bulldozed by the only Nintendo. That’s how it was back then.
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