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SACD to DAT analogue recording?
https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=8028		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  forper [ 07 Sep 2018, 11:12 ]
Post subject:  SACD to DAT analogue recording?
I have a PCM-M1 DAT recorder and a Sony SCD-XE800 SACD player.

When I try to send analogue through 2 x RCA to 3.5mm minijack inputting to the DAT recorders line-in it doesn't recognise any signal. When I switch the line in to MIC mode I get a horrible mess of signal.

When I send analogue from the XE800 to my MDS-JB980 MD deck it can output digital to the DAT recorder (I think it's converting the analogue signal into PCM). This is okay but I should be able to get better recordings off SACD from the analogue outputs.

What am I doing wrong? Analogue to the DAT recorder should work? Faulty DAT line in?
Author:  takeshi666 [ 07 Sep 2018, 17:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: SACD to DAT analogue recording?
Some sort of copy protection perhaps?
Author:  signofzeta [ 08 Sep 2018, 16:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: SACD to DAT analogue recording?
So have you ever recorded anything analog with this DAT recorder? It could be the analog line in is dead (like my MD recorder). Does it have any kind of VU meter and is it active when you are paused in Record?

There is no copy protection that would affect this that I know of. SCMS only affects digital recordings.
Author:  ldfan [ 08 Sep 2018, 19:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: SACD to DAT analogue recording?
Best to try and plug another analog device into the DAT and see if it can record it. I also doubt there should be any protection scheme on an SACD analog output.
Author:  forper [ 09 Sep 2018, 10:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: SACD to DAT analogue recording?
Yesterday I was in portable audio heaven. I hit the biggest book fair in town. I had managed to lay down a few DAT tapes from optical off CDs and music LDs in the last week. Since getting this thing from y!jp 2 months back after getting a bonus at work (had wanted DAT since DAT came out, but seriously considered for the last 5 years) I hadn't had a chance to set it up since I was moving and dealing with a lot of other s**t.

In my testing before my excursion the thing had a faulty headphone jack. Sound can be completely fixed my pressing the remotes jack a little out of the socket and to the right. I q-tipped with contact cleaner but no improvement. I went inside and looked cluelessly at the internals..decided to go with a heavy duty rubber band around the jack to pull it to the side for an improvised, non invasive solution. the band doesn't block access to any vital functions.

On Friday I brought the thing into work and demoed to colleagues. Matsutoya Yumi, excellently produced with lots of instruments and detail going on. Blew their minds. They couldn't believe how "full" the sound was. These are sound novices and clearly heard the difference from what they were used to. They couldn't understand how the gear was 25 years old.

So I'm on the bus to the bookfair, I'm hearing blistering, ear splitting pure sound from my Miyasato Kumi's Hitomi de Whispering, it's only turned up to 18 out of 25 volume through my trusty MDR-EX700 IEMs I got in Tokyo circa 2010. I can't even fathom how loud it would be at 25, I'm almost in pain. But I'm happy. Uncompressed detail and raw power. I have possibly never experienced portable sound like this but the closest I've come is my old HiMD walkman I sold due to unemployment and the high resale value. No need for offboard DACs, power amplifiers and other ad hoc BS that is modern portable audio. It's all in one, it's pure, it's the truth.

I want to ask the bus driver if he's stopping around the construction in the area so I reach for my bag strap and hit stop on the remote. This is as opposed to digging in my pocket to reach my device or physically removing my IEMs from my ears. Blu tooth remotes are fine but they got no style like my Sony remote has in spades.

I rocked out all morning, digging for good CDs at the bookfair. It was awesome.

So yeah I really want to lay down more DAT tapes, some from SACDs..but no Zeta, even in pause mode there are no dancing L/R bars, just no signal. I tried analogue off redbook from another CDP. No joy. Oh well might have to invest in a real deck since I'm now a DAT man :cool:
Author:  rein-o [ 09 Sep 2018, 15:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: SACD to DAT analogue recording?
Sounds like some cold or broken solder joints, just run a hot soldering iron over them to melt the solder and it should fix your issue.
Author:  forper [ 09 Sep 2018, 22:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: SACD to DAT analogue recording?
hahahaha..
Author:  forper [ 10 Sep 2018, 21:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: SACD to DAT analogue recording?
Now DAT isn't rewinding tapes...what a nightmare. Paid almost $1000AUD for a unit that lasted one outing.. : ( have no luck...
Author:  rein-o [ 10 Sep 2018, 22:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: SACD to DAT analogue recording?
forper wrote:
Now DAT isn't rewinding tapes...what a nightmare. Paid almost $1000AUD for a unit that lasted one outing.. : ( have no luck...

Holy schiznich bat bat, why so much for an old tape technology.

You have to know by now that spending crazy money on used players won't mean it will last any longer.
Author:  admin [ 11 Sep 2018, 03:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: SACD to DAT analogue recording?
Techmoan always up to it :-)



Julien
Author:  signofzeta [ 11 Sep 2018, 04:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: SACD to DAT analogue recording?
I'm really sick of Techmoan or anyone else that fronts like an expert on something they just discovered last winter. His videos are way above average, in some cases extremely good, I'm just really really sick of the "I'm famous enough to make my Patreons pay for my trips to eBay so please subscribe!" stuff.

$1000 for DAT in 2018, when you aren't even making your own recordings is nuts unless, like Forper, it is your religion. While *he* wants to make you buy the same line he does, that old stuff you can't afford it always better than what's at the store, the truth is you can get 24-bit 96khz or 4x DSD on the go as well as way WAY better amps than what came in any MD player ever, for like 1/4 of that and it will have no moving parts. There are a few areas where Sony is still strong and their portables are one of them. If you have any respect for what 90s Sony did you should just as well for Sony of today in the areas where they still deserve it.

I see Sony has a $1000 unit now that does 11.2 MHz DSD (not converted to anything) or PCM at 384 kHz/32 bit with 200mWx2 from a balanced (!?) output. DAT, frankly, can suck in that scenario. I have a Walkman that cost less than $200 and sounds AMAZING but they make way more high end stuff that I can't even afford to justify with my headphone budget.

https://www.sony.com/electronics/walkman/nw-zx300


Holy CRAP, check this one out. Watch the video. Its like Pioneer Elite still being done today.

https://www.sony.com/electronics/walkman/nw-wm1z
Author:  forper [ 11 Sep 2018, 13:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: SACD to DAT analogue recording?
Show me one modern unit I don't have to go on my computer to use?

Show me one with a classy backlit inline remote?

Show me one modern unit that has the style or feel of the old stuff?

DAT is pure but maybe too high maintenance, not durable enough. Pulled out my old WM-RX822 tonight and realised how rocksteady it is. Had it since my japonese housemate brought it back from Tokyo for me in 1998..thought it could do line in recording at the time, turned out to be only mic in..still it was a great playback unit, just I'd already moved onto MD for playback then and hardly used it. Mint. .

If I had a high end deck and some metal tapes I could apparantly make even better recordings on casette than DAT is capable of from SACD? ie analog to analog..

Tempting to go that route at this point.

Hi MD media is too expensive,

DAT is too unreliable

MD is compressed (but very good considering)

CD walkmans are getting hard to maintain, at least the ones that don't have forced shock protection compression..

Leaves me with good ol tape for that real feel true walkman experience..

Geez that current Sony solid gold flagship walkman is an ugly mother..and you STILL have to pull it out of your damn pocket or bag to pause it or turn up the volume. We've regressed so badly..
Author:  substance [ 11 Sep 2018, 22:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: SACD to DAT analogue recording?
Am I missing the point here? Dat is a lossy Digital format, Sacd is a lossless Digital format in very different fundamentals than the pcm operates. You are converting DSD(Sacd for the unaware) to analog then try to digitize it at the Dat recorder via ancient an adc.

To answer your question, sacds are sampled at 88.2 khz which is beyond what dat can recognize. You need a signal below 24khz on the analog output.
Author:  forper [ 11 Sep 2018, 23:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: SACD to DAT analogue recording?
substance wrote:
Am I missing the point here? Dat is a lossy Digital format, Sacd is a lossless Digital format in very different fundamentals than the pcm operates. You are converting DSD(Sacd for the unaware) to analog then try to digitize it at the Dat recorder via ancient an adc.

To answer your question, sacds are sampled at 88.2 khz which is beyond what dat can recognize. You need a signal below 24khz on the analog output.


DAT is not lossy but is that really true about an analogue signal that has a too high sampling rate not being recognised by some devices?? I thought analogue signal is analogue signal, it doesn't matter what the source is?

I think the DAT walkmans jack is just dead, coz it can't even recognise redbook from analog outs.

Well my $1000 POS has now eaten a tape and took an hour to get it out..

It still will only rewind for a few cycles and then stops by itself and unloads the tape. Sometimes it still plays back and records without unloading.

What could be triggering the unwanted unloading of the tape all the time? Any ideas please if you can help or have experience with these devices? Please note I might have the worst luck in the world with electronics.
Author:  rein-o [ 12 Sep 2018, 00:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: SACD to DAT analogue recording?
I would say a belt but other than that I personally hate tape and think its a waste of everything.

Long live disc formats!!!!!!
Author:  takeshi666 [ 12 Sep 2018, 03:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: SACD to DAT analogue recording?
rein-o wrote:
I would say a belt but other than that I personally hate tape and think its a waste of everything.

Long live disc formats!!!!!!

Yes, I'm sure forper would love to get into minidisc. :P

I mean, it's the format of the future!
Author:  forper [ 12 Sep 2018, 11:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: SACD to DAT analogue recording?
I have an extensive Minidisc loadout, since the late '90s. Including a JB980 deck and about 8 portables.

Problem is it never hits the spot anymore since hearing HiMD uncompressed PCM
Author:  rein-o [ 12 Sep 2018, 14:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: SACD to DAT analogue recording?
Why not just go the thumbdrive route??

All these newer formats have better sound.

You could also do the reel to reel, these are the best consumer analog tape format.
Author:  forper [ 12 Sep 2018, 22:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: SACD to DAT analogue recording?
rein-o wrote:
Why not just go the thumbdrive route??


no in line remote control that looks stylish

Quote:
All these newer formats have better sound.


Than analogue recorded from on a decent 3 head deck with metal tapes? Really?

Quote:
You could also do the reel to reel, these are the best consumer analog tape format.


Not portable
Author:  takeshi666 [ 12 Sep 2018, 22:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: SACD to DAT analogue recording?
forper wrote:
rein-o wrote:
You could also do the reel to reel, these are the best consumer analog tape format.


Not portable

Technically speaking, if it has a handle, it's considered portable, and there's definitely a few of those.
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