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 Post subject: Re: Best quality Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2013, 17:11 
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oh man! there is a criterion of The Game! i Didn't know. I have the regular release, happily without laser rot and quite happy about the quality of that one as well, but damn, need that criterion disc! The game was the first movie that introduced me to Jefferson Airplane back when i rented it on vhs, and J.Airplane have been my favorite band ever since! :)


Also, i have a question, i remember there was one Hitchcock movie released on Discovision which is supposed to be better than the later releases, was it the birds or psycho? or some other movie? =)
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 Post subject: Re: Best quality Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2013, 20:34 
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lons_vex wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
Last night I watched 12 Monkeys (1995) [43208]. This movie looks AMAZING, especially the dream sequences. I'm pretty sure the other versions have the same video, but I can't personally verify this. Chroma noise is nearly imperceptible during %90 of the movie.


12 Monkeys was actually the first movie to ever be published on DVD in germany.
And I remember there was a huge article in a big home cinema magazine reviewing the DVD, and comparing it to the LD.
The conclusion of that article was, that LD was from that day onward a dead format with bad picture quality and flat audio.
That magazine also stopped reviewing LD's from that issue onward.
So I wonder now... if the picture quality of this LD has demonstration qualities...
What was this magazines article all about?


The first release of 12 Monkeys on PAL DVD caused a HUGE controversy because the company that released it used Dolby Digital 5.1 audio and Philips INSISTED that PAL DVD's HAD to carry MPEG-2 5.1 audio first and foremost and that any DD track could only be 2 channels. But MPEG-2 audio's problem is it was variable bitrate and could range from 224 up to 900 kbp/s and that had to be integrated with the variable bitrate video - MPEG-2 audio was horrible except for the fact that it could do 7 channel with 5 across the front. It also didn't mix down to 2 channel Dolby Stereo encoded audio without uncovering artifacts that were masked in the multichannel replay.

The DVD forum finally had to step in and rule that Dolby could be the only soundtrack on a PAL disc and not limited to only 2 channels. Philips was pretty irritated.

I always wanted a copy of that disc - if I remember correctly it was released by one of the UK magazines, like Home Cinema Choice or What Hi-Fi.
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 Post subject: Re: Best quality Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2013, 20:35 
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cpix wrote:
oh man! there is a criterion of The Game! i Didn't know. I have the regular release, happily without laser rot and quite happy about the quality of that one as well, but damn, need that criterion disc! The game was the first movie that introduced me to Jefferson Airplane back when i rented it on vhs, and J.Airplane have been my favorite band ever since! :)


Also, i have a question, i remember there was one Hitchcock movie released on Discovision which is supposed to be better than the later releases, was it the birds or psycho? or some other movie? =)


It's the CAV edition of Psycho.
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 Post subject: Re: Best quality Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2013, 20:46 
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disclord wrote:
The first release of 12 Monkeys on PAL DVD caused a HUGE controversy because the company that released it used Dolby Digital 5.1 audio and Philips INSISTED that PAL DVD's HAD to carry MPEG-2 5.1 audio first and foremost and that any DD track could only be 2 channels. But MPEG-2 audio's problem is it was variable bitrate and could range from 224 up to 900 kbp/s and that had to be integrated with the variable bitrate video - MPEG-2 audio was horrible except for the fact that it could do 7 channel with 5 across the front. It also didn't mix down to 2 channel Dolby Stereo encoded audio without uncovering artifacts that were masked in the multichannel replay.

The DVD forum finally had to step in and rule that Dolby could be the only soundtrack on a PAL disc and not limited to only 2 channels. Philips was pretty irritated.

I always wanted a copy of that disc - if I remember correctly it was released by one of the UK magazines, like Home Cinema Choice or What Hi-Fi.

That always intrigued me as I helped a friend setup his home theater with one of the higher end Yamaha receivers. I was reading either the instruction manual for the receiver or the DVD player (an odd dual-tray, all-region Toshiba) where it detailed MPEG-2 surround audio. Always wondered about that as I never came across any movies with MPEG-2 surround audio.
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 Post subject: Re: Best quality Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2013, 22:02 
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disclord wrote:
cpix wrote:
oh man! there is a criterion of The Game! i Didn't know. I have the regular release, happily without laser rot and quite happy about the quality of that one as well, but damn, need that criterion disc! The game was the first movie that introduced me to Jefferson Airplane back when i rented it on vhs, and J.Airplane have been my favorite band ever since! :)


Also, i have a question, i remember there was one Hitchcock movie released on Discovision which is supposed to be better than the later releases, was it the birds or psycho? or some other movie? =)


It's the CAV edition of Psycho.


thanks man! :)
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 Post subject: Re: Best quality Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2013, 23:09 
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What is the aliasing that gumbyandpals spoke about with "Blade Runner"? It's mentioned as a 'shimmering' on the back of the "Cleopatra" box set- which is my vote for one of the best, but I haven't noticing any 'shimmering', unless I've just been missing it for some reason.
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 Post subject: Re: Best quality Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2013, 23:45 
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circlesky73 wrote:
What is the aliasing that gumbyandpals spoke about with "Blade Runner"? It's mentioned as a 'shimmering' on the back of the "Cleopatra" box set- which is my vote for one of the best, but I haven't noticing any 'shimmering', unless I've just been missing it for some reason.


Aliasing is caused by the resolution of the source exceeding the sampling rate of the video system (I'm not speaking of audio at all) so details equal to single lines flicker at a 30 Hz rate which is very visible. If your set or video source is rolling off frequency response it will "smear" the single line sources across two lines which eliminates the visible artifacts. Proper scailing to higher line rates can also help eliminate the visible effects of aliasing.

This is a VERY simplified explanation - if you have the original non-animorphic DVD of Titanic and an interlaced television you can see massive shimmering from aliasing since the master was not prefiltered for interlaced playback - but in progressive playback it looks great.
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 Post subject: Re: Best quality Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013, 01:34 
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lons_vex wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
Last night I watched 12 Monkeys (1995) [43208]. This movie looks AMAZING, especially the dream sequences. I'm pretty sure the other versions have the same video, but I can't personally verify this. Chroma noise is nearly imperceptible during %90 of the movie.


12 Monkeys was actually the first movie to ever be published on DVD in germany.
And I remember there was a huge article in a big home cinema magazine reviewing the DVD, and comparing it to the LD.
The conclusion of that article was, that LD was from that day onward a dead format with bad picture quality and flat audio.
That magazine also stopped reviewing LD's from that issue onward.
So I wonder now... if the picture quality of this LD has demonstration qualities...
What was this magazines article all about?


This is very interesting for several reasons.

First, I understand that in 1996 anything on DVD was exciting because a signal generated by a computer chip is really really really solid and has no analog noise at all. This was such a welcome change from the constantly wowing and flutering (and rotting and breaking and whatever) of the analog formats that...well, it was nice. Menus weren't anoying yet either.

However...I think they were totally full of crap. To be fair, I have no idea how bad they might have screwed up the PAL conversion of 12 Monkeys but it probably wasn't THAT bad. If they reviewed an NTSC disc then they are just full of crap. Not because DVD is total garbage or anything, but because *early* DVD was in fact garbage and so were the players. The macroblocking was horrendous on early DVDs and the players weren't as good (at ALL) at reducing it. A simple Playstation 3 plays DVD a million times better than anything on the market back then. Most (all?) didn't even have component yet, and I think only grey market decks had RGB since it circumvents Macrovision.

And the sound...that's just crazy. Not only is the sound on this LD amazing, it's categorically better than whatever MPEG audio BS they had at the European launch.

So while I understand their excitement back in the day, the were crazy.
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 Post subject: Re: Best quality Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 20 Feb 2013, 10:01 
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I would need to dig out the issue of the magazine called "Video" to make sure what version they used for comparison.
I am pretty lazy at digging up stuff though.

signofzeta the thing is this:
Quote:
And the sound...that's just crazy. Not only is the sound on this LD amazing, it's categorically better than whatever MPEG audio BS they had at the European launch.


This DVD was Dolby Digital 5.1, mainly because nobody wanted MPEG Audio, and because of this disc, MPEG Audio never happened.
That is probably also the reason why this DVD was a rare collectors item selling for lots of money.
Or maybe just because it was the first movie to ever be released? Dunno.
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 Post subject: Re: Best quality Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 20 Feb 2013, 13:28 
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Also remembering the early DVDs they demonstrated in the shops (at that time Japanese DVD 5 releases),
I remember Eraser the sequence where Arnold hangs outside the plane and throws the stretcher into the plane engine,
you saw only big orange MPEG blocks in stead of regular fire, this horrified me at that time.

At that moment (1996-1997) the DVDs had a very bad MPEG coding quality, so I was determined to stay with the LD format for a while. Also Warner mis-used the Eraser release not to put Dolby Digital on the American LD release to promote the DVD which had the surround sound (luckily the Japanese LD has the DD and much better picture)

The same applies also to the first years of LCD tv technology, it is only since a few years the quality is good (especially for non HD signal like LD), it took me until 2010 to buy a LCD tv with a decent picture quality.
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 Post subject: Re: Best quality Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2013, 14:21 
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disclord wrote:
Aliasing is caused by the resolution of the source exceeding the sampling rate of the video system (I'm not speaking of audio at all) so details equal to single lines flicker at a 30 Hz rate which is very visible. If your set or video source is rolling off frequency response it will "smear" the single line sources across two lines which eliminates the visible artifacts. Proper scailing to higher line rates can also help eliminate the visible effects of aliasing.

This is a VERY simplified explanation - if you have the original non-animorphic DVD of Titanic and an interlaced television you can see massive shimmering from aliasing since the master was not prefiltered for interlaced playback - but in progressive playback it looks great.


Thanks, disclord! I remember seeing that on the original "Titanic" DVD, as well as a handful of LDs before I got the iScan HD+, which took care of it. For some reason I was picturing the aliasing as being rolling vertical lines.
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 Post subject: Re: Best quality Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2013, 03:02 
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edwin240170 wrote:
Also remembering the early DVDs they demonstrated in the shops (at that time Japanese DVD 5 releases),
I remember Eraser the sequence where Arnold hangs outside the plane and throws the stretcher into the plane engine,
you saw only big orange MPEG blocks in stead of regular fire, this horrified me at that time.

At that moment (1996-1997) the DVDs had a very bad MPEG coding quality, so I was determined to stay with the LD format for a while. Also Warner mis-used the Eraser release not to put Dolby Digital on the American LD release to promote the DVD which had the surround sound (luckily the Japanese LD has the DD and much better picture)

The same applies also to the first years of LCD tv technology, it is only since a few years the quality is good (especially for non HD signal like LD), it took me until 2010 to buy a LCD tv with a decent picture quality.

Macroblocking is some of the most ugly picture flaws you can get. Just look at this screenshot from the Ultimate edition of Goldeneye on DVD - http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleic ... &lossless=

My Laserdisc even on my LCD, has no such issues and thank god for that..
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 Post subject: Re: Best quality Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2013, 03:51 
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The amount of macro blocking you get varies hugely by the player, but yes, it's horrible.

I watched Austin Powers the other night. (I think they all use the same master, but this is the US one). That is a pretty fantastic LD. The AC3 could be more impressive, but the video is A+ and the bonus crap is decent enough.
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 Post subject: Re: Best quality Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2013, 20:54 
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I was watching my Criterion Collection version of Robocop and was amazed as to how awesome the quality looked.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Best quality Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 22 Mar 2013, 22:32 
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in my collection I have to go with Beavis & Butt-Head: the Essential Collection

https://imageshack.us/a/img690/7465/img ... 074500.jpg

next would be Dumb & Dumber then Beverly Hills Cop III
Most if my discs are older.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Best quality Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 10 May 2015, 22:35 
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This http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/18884/PLF ... -The-(1969)
Is rather lovely looking.
Not sure what the NTSC disc looks like.
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 Post subject: Re: Best quality Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 10 May 2015, 22:39 
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the big Lebowski deserves a place here I found out just today :thumbup:
Looks real nice. Video and audio quality are superb
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 Post subject: Re: Best quality Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 11 May 2015, 02:16 
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Indeed. Very nice Laserdisc and with the right setup there's nothing to complain about.

EDIT: Playing it right now. Picture is great, but audio is even stronger. I think I'll re watch it in its full glory on Laserdisc some day. My DVD isn't any good and the HD-DVD is EE'd to death.
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 Post subject: Re: Best quality Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 21 May 2015, 13:29 
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Watched Rush Hour DTS the other night and have to say both picture and sound were very good. Very comparable to DVD.

The best picture though in my opinion is the PAL Star Trek TNG episodes. The picture is far superior to CBS:Action channel on sky (its an SD channel) and comparable to Sci-fi HD. Will post some pictures later. Perhaps its that I'm only used to watching these episodes on the TV that makes the LD look so good but in any case I enjoy the LDs.
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 Post subject: Re: Best quality Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 21 May 2015, 14:03 
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I've got a few of the TNG PAL discs. I always thought like most TV NTSC conversions of the time it looked very fuzzy and soft, both on TV and LD. Maybe that's just because everything else I was watching on TV at the time was higher resolution PAL.
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