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 Post subject: Re: Late release LD prices still fetching good money it seem
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 08:19 
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laserdisc_fan wrote:
Since LDDB.com is seen as something of a reference for prices, other sites are now following suit which is natural. This is then re-enforcing the current pricing whether it is justified or not. Sadly it's a trend that means all but the richest will be priced out of the market. I've often wondered could the laserdisc bubble ever burst and if it does will it end in tears like the housing market, since both are based on supply and demand. I think the key difference for laserdiscs is that rarer titles will continue to dwindle over time, particularly pristine, complete copies as fewer and fewer are resold. There is never going to be a situation where stocks are replenished like the housing market. There are still far more collectors for these titles than supply can ever meet at this stage and any renewed interest in the format can only exasperate the situation further. I anticipate even higher prices and some nuclear bids on auctions as the competition really starts to heat up! :think:


I agree with your observations. I still kind of have the feeling though, taking Stigmata as a case in point, that perhaps at times someone looks at those factors and hits the panic button too quickly. The pattern of the sales here may indicate a bit of a slowing in supply over time, but I still don't see it justifying such a sudden large increase to that $1300 sale, and that was an lddb sale too, not an auction where sometimes just the 'bidding war adrenaline' can see people battle it out to a higher price. Like you suggest though, a big sale like that then reinforces an upwards pressure going forwards.

This is where I like to think of this latest sale and the one you posted from ebay (being a bit less than half) as something of a market correction. Still a fairly out there price but a significant drop. I guess only time and a few more sales will tell.....

The supply is finite in that there is no new manufacturing, and a more limited total pool exists than older titles, however I tend to think that there's probably quite a few copies of these still sitting in Japanese homes. Around 2000 I guess your typical LD collector was not new to it, had reasonable disposable income, probably in the 30 something to 50 range? So 50 something -70 now? At the very least a trickle of titles might keep coming up as they either downsize or estate sales? Probably that's how it's always been with these tiles?

I like to pick up some of these late releases when an opportunity presents itself, but there are limits and gave up on this one quite early in the bidding!! I don't ever expect to have a complete collection!!
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 Post subject: Re: Late release LD prices still fetching good money it seem
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 14:22 
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Supply and demand are important but not very. Much the like the housing market, the issue is what *isn't* based on supply and demand and what is based on speculation and hype. When few people control huge percentages of the market they invariable begin to fix prices and over leverage things. The original purpose of the commodity is lost. When that stuff gets out of hand you get a crash. In both cases the people who are in the market at the high end ARE SEEKING HIGH PRICES. Why do you think they are buying such terrible movies? Because those are the expensive ones. Affordability is a huge turn off for them. You can't brag about affordable stuff, you can't hide your investments in affordable stuff, etc.

Don't feel too victimized though, for the most part the more valuable an LD is the worse it is so anyone complaining about being priced out of the market for awful movies is crying crocodile tears, IMO. They are just less wealthy versions of the same people wanting the same crappy LDs because of their catalog numeral.
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 Post subject: Re: Late release LD prices still fetching good money it seem
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 17:01 
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I think lddb is a major reason why some of the lds are going for insane prices and still well sought after. In the dvd community, i am sure there are even more rare and significant films. Because the wealth number of dvds aren't well documented, no one knows whats rare and worth collecting for the sake of being the only one who has those.

I think the price tracking on lddb also contributed to this. If there was no lddb, I would have never known the cell was worth some money. It also collide with most hardcore rare ld collectors started collecting around 2006-2008.(in the early days of the lddb forum). I am not sure when lddb database was launched.
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 Post subject: Re: Late release LD prices still fetching good money it seem
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 17:30 
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substance wrote:
I am not sure when lddb database was launched.


It's at the bottom of the main page :-)

:arrow: 2002

Oldest version history is November 8th 2002 when the private beta version opened to new users.

Shops started later in October 2004.

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 Post subject: Re: Late release LD prices still fetching good money it seem
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2017, 04:55 
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substance wrote:
I think lddb is a major reason why some of the lds are going for insane prices and still well sought after. In the dvd community, i am sure there are even more rare and significant films. Because the wealth number of dvds aren't well documented, no one knows whats rare and worth collecting for the sake of being the only one who has those.

I think the price tracking on lddb also contributed to this. If there was no lddb, I would have never known the cell was worth some money. It also collide with most hardcore rare ld collectors started collecting around 2006-2008.(in the early days of the lddb forum). I am not sure when lddb database was launched.


Think it can work both ways, it can put an upwards pressure as noted above - but I use the history to tell me when someone is paying a foolishly high price for something :-)
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 Post subject: Re: Late release LD prices still fetching good money it seem
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2017, 05:21 
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signofzeta wrote:
You can't brag about affordable stuff, you can't hide your investments in affordable stuff, etc.


Probably very true in most cases. Though personally I get a kick out of bragging about my good luck cheap U-571 story. I think I'd feel a fool with more money than sense bragging about spending $2000 for it (and someone did: http://www.lddb.com/past/22/)

It may not be a great movie, often criticised for historical inaccuracies; but it's not so bad so far as these kind of action/suspense movies go and does have a great AC3 soundtrack!
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 Post subject: Re: Late release LD prices still fetching good money it seem
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2017, 09:41 
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substance wrote:
I think lddb is a major reason why some of the lds are going for insane prices and still well sought after. In the dvd community, i am sure there are even more rare and significant films.


No more so than Ebay, discogs or a load of other sites where you can see past sales. Almost every day I see another DVD that was available for $10 a week ago priced now at $400 on Amazon.com because it is now out of print so the same happens to those as well. You snooze, you lose no matter what the commodity.
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 Post subject: Re: Late release LD prices still fetching good money it seem
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2017, 10:24 
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audioboyz1973 wrote:
Probably very true in most cases. Though personally I get a kick out of bragging about my good luck cheap U-571 story. I think I'd feel a fool with more money than sense bragging about spending $2000 for it (and someone did: http://www.lddb.com/past/22/)


I agree. My own personal goal has always been to obtain the complete set at zero cost - no easy goal given current pricing! I believe it can be done though if you trade/sell others to compensate for the ones you paid more for. It helps to have some luck on your side as well. I remember getting 2 sealed copies of one of the rarer PILFs in the exact same auction for $10. The seller hadn't even bothered to list them separately. The same week I snagged 3 sealed PILF-28 X Files boxsets in one auction for $1 and Speed for $1.90 USD a few days later. In fact at least 22 of the titles in the series I paid less than $15 per title for and all but one of those are near mint and complete. At one stage I owned 2 copies of the Cell, kept the best and sold on the rest so got a free upgrade for the sleeve. The profit from that also paid for one of the other titles I didn't own so I got 2 really rare ones completely free. Since I've duplicates of nearly all the others which will eventually be sold the profits will help balance the books. So it can be affordable to collect these titles if you plan ahead and don't splurge on the first title that suddenly appears at $2000. The trick is knowing what's really rare from what's not and taking decisive action when the opportunity presents itself.
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 Post subject: Re: Late release LD prices still fetching good money it seem
PostPosted: 27 Apr 2017, 02:17 
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laserdisc_fan wrote:
audioboyz1973 wrote:
Probably very true in most cases. Though personally I get a kick out of bragging about my good luck cheap U-571 story. I think I'd feel a fool with more money than sense bragging about spending $2000 for it (and someone did: http://www.lddb.com/past/22/)


I agree. My own personal goal has always been to obtain the complete set at zero cost - no easy goal given current pricing! I believe it can be done though if you trade/sell others to compensate for the ones you paid more for. It helps to have some luck on your side as well. I remember getting 2 sealed copies of one of the rarer PILFs in the exact same auction for $10. The seller hadn't even bothered to list them separately. The same week I snagged 3 sealed PILF-28 X Files boxsets in one auction for $1 and Speed for $1.90 USD a few days later. In fact at least 22 of the titles in the series I paid less than $15 per title for and all but one of those are near mint and complete. At one stage I owned 2 copies of the Cell, kept the best and sold on the rest so got a free upgrade for the sleeve. The profit from that also paid for one of the other titles I didn't own so I got 2 really rare ones completely free. Since I've duplicates of nearly all the others which will eventually be sold the profits will help balance the books. So it can be affordable to collect these titles if you plan ahead and don't splurge on the first title that suddenly appears at $2000. The trick is knowing what's really rare from what's not and taking decisive action when the opportunity presents itself.





Words of wisdom laserdisc_fan ........
Working a similar formula myself. Though later in the game it does appear to be working quite well.
Stay tuned.

Keep those players in working order kids ! ! !
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 Post subject: Re: Late release LD prices still fetching good money it seem
PostPosted: 27 Apr 2017, 09:35 
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The same seller on Ebay just sold another Stigmata last night for $536 USD.

So we have had 3 Stigmata laserdisc sold in 1 month on Ebay at $536, $650 and $612:
Image

Let's not forget the copy Julien spotted on Yahoo that sold for $605 during this same period.

So the average sale price was $600.75 so everyone now knows the going rate in 2017.
It can obviously attract more from a buyer who is money rich and time poor if listed as a Buy It Now and that's exactly what happened for the higher sale price on LDDB.com some months ago.

It looks to me from so many new/unopened copies of the same title being sold in quick succession a stash of these may have been unearthed in Japan. Wouldn't be surprised if another copy turns up soon, although pricing on the last one sold was starting to cool a little - classic symptom if you flood the market with too many copies.

Yes the fever has definitely started. I see someone else on Ebay jumping on the late release bandwagon.....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-WORLD-IS-NO ... 2460313813
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 Post subject: Re: Late release LD prices still fetching good money it seem
PostPosted: 27 Apr 2017, 10:32 
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Hello Members, please allow me to weigh in on some of the stigmata ebay activity recently.

On the 19th I purchased a buy it now Stigmata at $675.00. Dealer contacted me after payment and stated tracking would follow shipping. All was well it seemed. Several days went by. I noticed another "Sealed" copy of Stigmata was suddenly listed by another dealer in Japan for roughly $950.00 as buy it now. Get this, the idiots used the same pictures as the buy it now I had purchased a couple days earlier ! I almost fell off my chair.
So I started daily emails to the dealer I purchased from and after four days of no notice about shipping I began to wonder. Ebay control panel stated that shipping had not occurred. I was getting nervous. Very nervous yet intrigued by the gaul. Already calculating not receiving my purchased title and anticipating dispute resolution.
As suddenly as the higher priced buy it now appeared, the listing was suddenly unavailable. Taken down by the seller. No sale indicated as far as I know.

So nearly a week goes by and I see ANOTHER Stigmata listed at auction and up to approx. $235.00. Different photos this time around. I was like "what the H*ll ! ? !" ......

Nearly a week goes by since my original buy it now of Stigmata. No reply to numerous emails requesting shipping status explanation regarding delay. Not a word about my purchase and all the sudden my money is refunded with a lame excuse about how the guy could not secure a copy of the title ! I must type it was a bit surreal. The dealer in question had one negative strike for suddenly cancelling a transaction a week after purchase with no explanation previously in his feedback history. I added a second negative feedback strike against the dealer even though I received a lame a** excuse and apology about refunding me and not shipping.

I went ahead and threw my hat in for the sealed Stigmata at auction on ebay that ended the 26th of April and won it for over a hundred dollars less then the original buy it now last week.
Already had good dialogue with the current dealer and secured payment with shipping preferences in place.
He seems legit .........

Kinda squirrelly week with much stress and wonder ! ! !

Clumsy con artists ?, conspiracy ?, a crate of unopened titles unearthed ?, or what ! ? !
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 Post subject: Re: Late release LD prices still fetching good money it seem
PostPosted: 27 Apr 2017, 13:29 
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Respect to firehorse_44 for sharing his dealings on Ebay. I've been there myself on many occasions.
It certainly sheds more light on what has been happening with so many listings of this title appearing out of the blue recently.

I wonder did the same rogue seller list his Stigmata on both Yahoo and Ebay around the same time and decide to let it go on Yahoo perhaps because some Japanese sellers prefer to sell internally than internationally. If so it seems a bit silly given he got a better price on Ebay.

Perhaps he got greedy and thought he could relist it at an even higher price but then decided to pull the listing for fear of being removed from Ebay. Maybe a friend was doing the second listing for him. Perhaps there isn't a stash of more unopened Stigmata titles after all! :(

One things for sure, you need to keep very alert and your eyes peeled when the stakes are high because some sellers can really try to pull a fast one on you.
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 Post subject: Re: Late release LD prices still fetching good money it seem
PostPosted: 29 May 2017, 20:21 
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joe wrote:
I just paid $125 for Pioneer: AV Creator (50 Years of History) (1988) [PIO-0050E] last week, for the rare documentary. I cant see anyone else wanting to pay that for a doc on Pioneer Electronics..


I would have :-)
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 Post subject: Re: Late release LD prices still fetching good money it seem
PostPosted: 30 May 2017, 20:00 
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ajp.worrell wrote:
joe wrote:
I just paid $125 for Pioneer: AV Creator (50 Years of History) (1988) [PIO-0050E] last week, for the rare documentary. I cant see anyone else wanting to pay that for a doc on Pioneer Electronics..


I would have :-)



I can understand that, sounds like a cool LD.

Cheers :thumbup:.
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 Post subject: Re: Late release LD prices still fetching good money it seem
PostPosted: 30 May 2017, 21:48 
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The Limey just sold for almost 2300 USD on Yahoo auctions. :shock:
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 Post subject: Re: Late release LD prices still fetching good money it seem
PostPosted: 30 May 2017, 22:10 
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Blimey !

That is one epic Terrence Stamp flick !
Hoping to have that gem on my shelves someday ........
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 Post subject: Re: Late release LD prices still fetching good money it seem
PostPosted: 31 May 2017, 01:53 
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firehorse_44 wrote:
Hello Members, please allow me to weigh in on some of the stigmata ebay activity recently.

On the 19th I purchased a buy it now Stigmata at $675.00. Dealer contacted me after payment and stated tracking would follow shipping. All was well it seemed. Several days went by. I noticed another "Sealed" copy of Stigmata was suddenly listed by another dealer in Japan for roughly $950.00 as buy it now. Get this, the idiots used the same pictures as the buy it now I had purchased a couple days earlier ! I almost fell off my chair.
So I started daily emails to the dealer I purchased from and after four days of no notice about shipping I began to wonder. Ebay control panel stated that shipping had not occurred. I was getting nervous. Very nervous yet intrigued by the gaul. Already calculating not receiving my purchased title and anticipating dispute resolution.
As suddenly as the higher priced buy it now appeared, the listing was suddenly unavailable. Taken down by the seller. No sale indicated as far as I know.

So nearly a week goes by and I see ANOTHER Stigmata listed at auction and up to approx. $235.00. Different photos this time around. I was like "what the H*ll ! ? !" ......

Nearly a week goes by since my original buy it now of Stigmata. No reply to numerous emails requesting shipping status explanation regarding delay. Not a word about my purchase and all the sudden my money is refunded with a lame excuse about how the guy could not secure a copy of the title ! I must type it was a bit surreal. The dealer in question had one negative strike for suddenly cancelling a transaction a week after purchase with no explanation previously in his feedback history. I added a second negative feedback strike against the dealer even though I received a lame a** excuse and apology about refunding me and not shipping.

I went ahead and threw my hat in for the sealed Stigmata at auction on ebay that ended the 26th of April and won it for over a hundred dollars less then the original buy it now last week.
Already had good dialogue with the current dealer and secured payment with shipping preferences in place.
He seems legit .........

Kinda squirrelly week with much stress and wonder ! ! !

Clumsy con artists ?, conspiracy ?, a crate of unopened titles unearthed ?, or what ! ? !



Like I said, as in any market, when the original purpose of the commodity becomes secondary to invented economic BS, weird ish happens. I would also not be surprised if those three auctions were used as a reference for a healthy market for these type of LDs, maybe by someone who has personal stake in the high end LD market themselves...wait, already happened... :)
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 Post subject: Re: Late release LD prices still fetching good money it seem
PostPosted: 31 May 2017, 06:56 
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Slippery slope.......

Signofzeta, have to agree with you .....
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 Post subject: Re: Late release LD prices still fetching good money it seem
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2017, 09:01 
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Not all, its possible to buy "Blade" for a few Euros now, years ago it was a high price LD.
The holy grail here is still "X-Men", three years ago it was sold for 250 Euros on a movie convention, in a near mint condition.
You have to be very lucky if you can get it at all now, I would assume the price would be 100-150 Euros higher.
I was astonished that quite a lot of X-Men collectors - who dont have a LD player at all - were interested in this item too.
I wouldnt spend so much money for a medium that I cant use and play. And if you are only interested in the big cover you can buy the soundtrack on vinyl.
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 Post subject: Re: Late release LD prices still fetching good money it seem
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2017, 12:08 
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nordkorea wrote:
I was astonished that quite a lot of X-Men collectors - who dont have a LD player at all - were interested in this item too.
I wouldnt spend so much money for a medium that I cant use and play.


It happens even more with music laserdiscs.
For example many rock music collectors will want to own every single item every produced by their favourite band whether it is Queen or Metallica. That includes all the laserdiscs regardless of whether they have been re-issued on newer formats. So it's just part of the collector bug mania.
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