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 Post subject: Re: why do only Japanese jackets develop brown spots (foxing
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2017, 06:09 
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Hmm, I've always been careful too when handling stuff I consider special, it comes from growing up collecting comic books, always clean dry hands and treating stuff with respect.

LD_fan - an interesting possibly related point is in the collection of old game consoles. Companies like Nintendo manufactured so many units that the chemical mix of plastics in some production runs was different. Now some of these with certain plastic makeups have their white/gray areas yellow severely with exposure to light over time, others stay their original colour no matter what, all to do with the mix of plastics used. Probably similar things go on with Star Wars and other toys as I remember a friend had a yellowing AT-AT walker in the late 80s and parts of my battle damaged Xwing yellowed by the 90s too. Did Star Wars have a high proportion of white/gray vehicles?? I'm realising now it did I guess. Never noticed yellowing on my GI Joes but there wasn't much white on them. Never owned Snow Job or Storm Shadow though haha

So do you think some of the foxing on LD sleeves could be due to a combination of handling and exposure to light as well? I guess we'd have to be chemists to really know anyway..?
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 Post subject: Re: why do only Japanese jackets develop brown spots (foxing
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2017, 08:12 
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forper wrote:
So do you think some of the foxing on LD sleeves could be due to a combination of handling and exposure to light as well? I guess we'd have to be chemists to really know anyway..?


You raise an interesting point. Now here's the thing some people confuse yellowing or general discolouration caused by the sun with foxing. Exposure to sun has two side effects on sleeves - it fades the deepest rich colours and it also causes predominantly white colours to turn yellow and eventually brown overtime. So it's not inconceivable that some sleeves people are thinking have foxing are in fact sun damaged instead. It's also possible they have both forms of damage!

It just so happens I was looking at a row of identical jackets layed out on the floor the other day.
The reason I did this was because one of them seemed at bit duller and washed out in comparison to how I remembered that same artwork in general. Sure enough when I compared it to the others it really was bleached out and further more the white edge was starting to go a very even yellowy/brown colour - I would put this down to sun exposure in both cases.

That said, I've seen examples of jackets that had foxing and sun damage so it isn't always so obvious.
Generally if a jacket has a more even discolouration across it but otherwise looks pristine I'd say it is down to sun exposure. Whereas if a jacket has a more blotchy appearance with spots etc then that to me is the classic sign of foxing because no one handles a jacket with fingerprints evenly hence the randomness of the spots.

I've even seen listings on Ebay where some sneaky sellers mention in the description the fading on the sleeve/OBI was there to begin when it is obvious it was caused by poor care and sun exposure.

So you need to protect them from both the sun and handling and I do. My most treasured LDs are actually stored on shelves which have closing doors so get no light exposure at all - even from a bulb! Another valuable set is stored on shelving in a closet so those are also protected - that's about 5000 LDs. The other 4000 or so are on open shelves, however the positioning of all of those shelves is critical - none ever face the sun no matter what time of day in the room so are well protected and have not faded on the spines or jackets. I suspect from the varying shades of jackets I've acquired over the years that many other people are not doing likewise!
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 Post subject: Re: why do only Japanese jackets develop brown spots (foxing
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2017, 09:05 
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laserdisc_fan wrote:
forper wrote:
So do you think some of the foxing on LD sleeves could be due to a combination of handling and exposure to light as well? I guess we'd have to be chemists to really know anyway..?


You raise an interesting point. Now here's the thing some people confuse yellowing or general discolouration caused by the sun with foxing. Exposure to sun has two side effects on sleeves - it fades the deepest rich colours and it also causes predominantly white colours to turn yellow and eventually brown overtime. So it's not inconceivable that some sleeves people are thinking have foxing are in fact sun damaged instead. It's also possible they have both forms of damage!

It just so happens I was looking at a row of identical jackets layed out on the floor the other day.
The reason I did this was because one of them seemed at bit duller and washed out in comparison to how I remembered that same artwork in general. Sure enough when I compared it to the others it really was bleached out and further more the white edge was starting to go a very even yellowy/brown colour - I would put this down to sun exposure in both cases.

That said, I've seen examples of jackets that had foxing and sun damage so it isn't always so obvious.
Generally if a jacket has a more even discolouration across it but otherwise looks pristine I'd say it is down to sun exposure. Whereas if a jacket has a more blotchy appearance with spots etc then that to me is the classic sign of foxing because no one handles a jacket with fingerprints evenly hence the randomness of the spots.!


That makes perfect sense.

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So you need to protect them from both the sun and handling and I do. My most treasured LDs are actually stored on shelves which have closing doors so get no light exposure at all - even from a bulb! Another valuable set is stored on shelving in a closet so those are also protected - that's about 5000 LDs. The other 4000 or so are on open shelves, however the positioning of all of those shelves is critical - none ever face the sun no matter what time of day in the room so are well protected and have not faded on the spines or jackets. I suspect from the varying shades of jackets I've acquired over the years that many other people are not doing likewise


Respect to your dedication. My humble collection of maybe 300 titles is pretty isolated from sunlight, and it would only be the spines that were exposed of course. I don't expect to ever have a perfect collection and the wear on some sleeves is part of their story, although I too prefer pristine with Obi.

btw, I collect mainly Japanese pop artist music LDs, do they find your way into your extensive collection or is it only Western artists?
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 Post subject: Re: why do only Japanese jackets develop brown spots (foxing
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2017, 09:57 
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forper wrote:
btw, I collect mainly Japanese pop artist music LDs, do they find your way into your extensive collection or is it only Western artists?


I love music from all over the world. I have a friend from Singapore who was originally a penpal which I am still in touch with even after 35 years! We often used to send each other music on cassete tape in the 80's and then later CDs. So I was very fortunate to be exposed to Asian cultures and a wide range of music from a very young age.

When I got into laserdisc some of the earliest acquisitions I made were j-pop - stuff like Seiko Matsuda, Namie Amuro, Show-Ya, Princess Princess, Keiko Terada, Mari Hamada, TRF, Every Little Thing etc. With laserdisc only covering up to 2001, I was keen to follow many of these artists to see what else they have done in more recent times so many of my favourite DVDs or Blu-rays are by these artists. In fact most of my Blu-ray discs focus predominantly on Japanese music.
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 Post subject: Re: why do only Japanese jackets develop brown spots (foxing
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 05:49 
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laserdisc_fan wrote:
forper wrote:
btw, I collect mainly Japanese pop artist music LDs, do they find your way into your extensive collection or is it only Western artists?


I love music from all over the world. I have a friend from Singapore who was originally a penpal which I am still in touch with even after 35 years! We often used to send each other music on cassete tape in the 80's and then later CDs. So I was very fortunate to be exposed to Asian cultures and a wide range of music from a very young age.


Nice. I was first exposed to Asian music on Australian multicultural government owned TV, SBS. They used to show Asian music concerts with a lot of Cantonese singers. Then I got into anime and got interested in the soundtracks, Minmay from Macross and her Japanese voice actress..joined the Japan club at my uni in '98 and borrowed Jpop CDs from members, made a lot of copies onto MD then. Stuff like Globe, Aiko, ELT, My Little Lover, . Then I moved in with a guy who had bought hundreds of ex rental singles while in Japan, dubbed those, Stuff like Saru Gan Seki, Speed etc etc. and a Japanese guy who had cool 80s stuff like Tom Cat..I used to read Japanese anime mags, thought Tomo Sakurai was the cutest girl I'd ever seen and she played the main girl in Macross 7 which I was watching, also Amuro Namie was in a lot of other mags. SO ordered their CDs from the local record store along with the Macross Song Collection, $70 EACH. Damn I was dumb then, but still got those CDs, loved em so much, the presentation and packaging was so much better than Western artists, I'd never seen a WHITE base to a CD jewel case before! THEN I got a Japanese girlfriend and she had dozens of CDs and MDs, Dreams Come True, Aikawa Nanase, Chara, UA, my MD collection and exposure to Jpop grew. .

I don't know why I liked it so much, I guess I always liked Western pop music alongside punk and rock but Japanese pop was the same..but different, a unique sense of melody I hadn't heard anywhere else and the female singers were really cute to me.

Quote:
When I got into laserdisc some of the earliest acquisitions I made were j-pop - stuff like Seiko Matsuda, Namie Amuro, Show-Ya, Princess Princess, Keiko Terada, Mari Hamada, TRF, Every Little Thing etc. With laserdisc only covering up to 2001, I was keen to follow many of these artists to see what else they have done in more recent times so many of my favourite DVDs or Blu-rays are by these artists. In fact most of my Blu-ray discs focus predominantly on Japanese music.


Nice, Japanese music is the main thing I collect on video as well now. I kind of always dreamed of having this stuff on LD. I mean I ordered a fansub of Mariko Kouda's vivid concert in the late 90s, it was so special to have, still looking for the LD. I dreamt about being a millionaire relaxing with my library of Japanese concert LDs. Today the dream has come true! For far less money than it would have taken then! Still there are Japanese music LDs on the rarer side that I have to plan to buy in the long term. One day though!

I collect DVD as well. I was just in Sydney where there is a used Japanese book shop with a good selection of CDs and DVDs. Picked up Zard Portfolio, some Hitomi discs, an UA concert, Suzuki Ami join clips and Amuro Namie Live Style 2011, all R2s, all mint $5-$20 a disc which I consider good prices. Also bought a dozen CDs, reminded me of browsing book off and trying out new stuff.

I'm pretty focused on 80s with CDs and LDs right now though, Matsutoya Yumi, Honda Minako, Senri Oe, Mari Iijima's early stuff

Some of the best LDs I picked up in Japan last time were the Shizuka Koudo Female series. So good!

Current Jpop collection is still pretty modest CD: 4-500, LD: 50, DVD: 20, MD: 200

I figure I need to double that amount to have a collection that sufficiently spans the breadth and depth of even just the stuff I personally like in Jpop, maybe not to have every album by every artist I like but to have all the key albums and some good video of each artist.
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 Post subject: Re: why do only Japanese jackets develop brown spots (foxing
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 09:36 
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I saw you mentioned Speed. In 1998 I visited Japan and bought their album Rise and CD single Wake Me Up which were both riding high in the charts at the time. Like yourself this was the first solid white CD box/insert/cover I had ever seen and also came in a special silver outer slip case. I still have them in pristine condition. It would be a decade before I got their laserdisc.

If you're into anime then you'd be well gemmed up on j-pop and also the rockier stuff. Many anime titles feature japanese music throughout, so its a key part of the whole experience. It's also another factor that sets it apart from western animation.

For many western music lovers, j-pop is an often neglected genre, despite the fact there are loads of great titles to collect. If I had to trim my entire laserdisc collection down to just 100 laserdiscs at least 20 of them would be j-pop or j-rock titles - that's how special they are to me.

Mari Iijima, Minako Honda, Globe, Dreams Come True, Shizuka Koudo are all great.
If you managed to pickup stuff like Namie Amuro DVDs for $5-20 you did well. She's incredibly popular.
In general almost anything that was signed to Avex Trak you can't go wrong with.

A few others I really like are Fairchild, Gwinko, Pink Sapphire, Hekiru Shiina, Kaori Okui, MAX, Marlene, Miki Nakatami, Fumina Hisamatsu & Psy-S. I find collecting j-pop one of the most fun and rewarding aspects of laserdiscs as prices are generally very low and there are lots of hidden gems to discover if you take the time to explore.
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 Post subject: Re: why do only Japanese jackets develop brown spots (foxing
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 14:11 
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You forgot Luna Sea, I think you have something from them. I know they did some LD. They are pretty good.
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 Post subject: Re: why do only Japanese jackets develop brown spots (foxing
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2017, 10:49 
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laserdisc_fan wrote:
I saw you mentioned Speed. In 1998 I visited Japan and bought their album Rise and CD single Wake Me Up which were both riding high in the charts at the time. Like yourself this was the first solid white CD box/insert/cover I had ever seen and also came in a special silver outer slip case. I still have them in pristine condition. It would be a decade before I got their laserdisc..


Nice, yeah I was just talking about the white tray inserts but the Rise jewel case is pretty amazing, it's still the only complete solid white jewel case I've ever seen.

Quote:
Mari Iijima, Minako Honda, Globe, Dreams Come True, Shizuka Koudo are all great.


Yeah, I discovered Minako Honda on a random disc buying spree at a specialist idol CD shop called Tacto in Tokyo. They were having a sale and she looked so cute so bought a couple of her CDs. Later found out how she died but really love her music at the moment. Really on an '80s trip after recently collecting most of Yumi Tanimura's CDs and LDs.

Quote:
If you managed to pickup stuff like Namie Amuro DVDs for $5-20 you did well. She's incredibly popular.


Yeah I'm a long time fan since just after Super Monkeys when Japanese girls would copy her style to become "Amuras", long brown hair and tan skin, platform boots and miniskirts...good times..I have this VCD I still love, Live at Marine Stadium, must have picked that up in Chinatown in '98 or so, Super Monkeys make a surprise appearance and Sam from TRF dances it up, Komuro himself gets on stage for the big piano balad finale..

She really made a come back with Queen of Hip Pop (key album imo) so looking forward to this DVD, it's done around the same time.

Quote:
In general almost anything that was signed to Avex Trak you can't go wrong with.


Yep, big fan of this label in the 90s.

Quote:
Fairchild


My all time favourite Jpop band. Have most of their CDs and their Ukelele live LD. THe camerawork and super fast cuts are headache enducing but You dancing around in a wig and no shoes makes it alllllll worth it. Audio is decent.

You's solo album is really good. Just got it a few months ago after wanting for a long time.

When I was last in Japan I saw a poster in Shibuya for an oldies concert, like all older Shibuya personalities in tuxedos and gowns, real classy and one of the names and faces out of about 20 was You..she's still around. wish I took a picture..Check her on her Tokyo community TV show she used to do with Hiroshi Fujiwara (another hero of mine) in the early 90s. It's on Youtube somewhere.
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 Post subject: Re: why do only Japanese jackets develop brown spots (foxing
PostPosted: 09 May 2017, 16:32 
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DiscoVision packaging (besides the glossy printed jackets) exhibits terrible foxing under just the right conditions.

I have a ton of foxed DiscoVision boxes and jackets. Charles Shishkevish had his DiscoVision room right across from the laundry room in his home and the titles that were in "line of sight" from the laundry room are foxed like crazy; rust-colored yucky icky ick.

Since they were roughly alphabetized, this means that most of my "S* and up" titles are stored in foxed packaging. Thankfully, I've been able to find at least one good condition replacement for each.

With that being said, I can say with confidence that DiscoVision, at least, does not rot from moisture in the air. Those jackets and boxes are foxed from 20-40 years of exposure to lots of moisture, but discs that Charles noted for having good playback still exhibit good playback.
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 Post subject: Re: why do only Japanese jackets develop brown spots (foxing
PostPosted: 10 May 2017, 09:43 
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Lends more weight to the Japan is a humid country argument..
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 Post subject: Re: why do only Japanese jackets develop brown spots (foxing
PostPosted: 12 May 2017, 06:16 
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Wow, I never knew this was called foxing. I think practically every single HK disk I've ever owned and sold has had this. Even sealed discs. Also, it seems to effect matte and gloss covers.
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 Post subject: Re: why do only Japanese jackets develop brown spots (foxing
PostPosted: 29 May 2017, 09:37 
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I found a way to restore LD cover with foxing !

Check my 3rd post on this page (with the pictures of beauty and the beast) :
LD case restoration
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 Post subject: Re: why do only Japanese jackets develop brown spots (foxing
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2017, 11:14 
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As a few pointed out, its becouse humidity. Nothing to do how the sleeves are made, Ive seen plenty of US and EU sleeves having the same. Its much more common in 70s records and pretty much all records from 60s got them. I mean, go in a book shop and almost all the books will have it. I dont really count it as a defect, its just how it is, it got to do with where it comes from. Sure if its all 100% brown them maybe I wouldnt get it.

But as they get more modern, its more and more common to have AC inside, so its lesser problem in modern times. But back then, not everyone could afford it.
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 Post subject: Re: why do only Japanese jackets develop brown spots (foxing
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2020, 16:34 
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very, very sorry for bumping such old thread
not something I usually do

however I thought not only is this such a good source of information, I also have a questions not really worthy of a new thread
I hope you guys can help me out

do you think discs themselves are affected by humidity IF SEALED? (shrinkwrap is still intact)
I have the opportunity to buy a bunch of anime big LD boxes
these are all basically new and the discs inside all still sealed
however both carton boxes show some major foxing and yellowing, especially on the inside "white parts" of the boxes
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 Post subject: Re: why do only Japanese jackets develop brown spots (foxing
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2020, 17:20 
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Japanese LDs don’t have shrink wrap, they have little baggies with vent holes on them.

Discs are a million times less sensitive to humidity than paper. Therefore I wouldn’t make an assumption about the disks based on the look of the paper. I’ve seen lots of boxes where the outer box is quite yellowed but the inner jackets are perfect.

Some other thoughts on this subject...in my research I’ve sort of learned that, no, this is not really like the yellowing of old paperbacks. The truth is that the most premium of Japanese papers (and therefore the world’s) are bleached to F and back to be as white as possible. This makes them very nice when new but it also makes them more susceptible to that same ultra bleached chemistry going the wrong way years later. So often foxing is often proof of papers once-high quality despite it spotting easier than cheaper papers. Honestly I think sunlight is probably the #1 thing that’s going to set off the foxing. mimylovesjapan‘s link will help you re-bleach the white stuff but it’s pretty hard to fix anything colored or printed on. I’d say so many of us have “foxed” LDs because we buy them from shops that have had them sitting in view for decades.
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 Post subject: Re: why do only Japanese jackets develop brown spots (foxing
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2020, 23:04 
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aaaaaand of course thanks a bunch to one of the lddb legends... ;)
lots of nice info, as usual

just one thing
of course I am far from being an expert however Japanese LDs make up about 98% of my collection, especially anime
Quote:
Japanese LDs don’t have shrink wrap, they have little baggies with vent holes on them.

that is true for single, standalone discs
however those inside big boxes, at least anime, have good-old shrinkwrap around them
I have a few of them, all new (BB crisis, Conan, Urusei Yatsura etc.. ) and I can confirm that

for example just found a new/sealed Conan LD box, if you see the 4th pic that's clearly shrinkwrap not the usual baggies
https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/c827533336

I suppose that has to do with space saving, so you could fit more discs inside a box?

edit
of course thanks a lot to everybody who posted in here, such a helpful/interesting thread
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 Post subject: Re: why do only Japanese jackets develop brown spots (foxing
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2020, 23:41 
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kassan wrote:
that is true for single, standalone discs


There were a few Japanese LDs that came shrink wrapped though they were the exceptions as most came in the vented polly-bags. All (if not all then most) of the Japanese heavily optically censored NEW SELECT LDs were shrink wrapped. There are a few music LDs from Japan that were shrink wrapped too.
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 Post subject: Re: why do only Japanese jackets develop brown spots (foxing
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2020, 00:40 
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I’ve never seen a shrink wrapped Japanese LD and I’ve opened many including several box sets. I’ve found several shrink wrapped Japanese records though even though those usually come in bags too so I can for sure see it being a thing.

From the sounds of it you’re talking about earlier releases. I do have the BGC box set which was much later than the other two you mentioned and...I honestly can’t remember how it came. I may have not been the one to open it first. Ghibli Ga Ippai, Holmes Detective (1st print) Macross TV (2nd print) Rascal (2nd print)...I know those all had bags inside.

Most of the time I save the bags and uses them for other LDs. I like them more than actual bags, honestly.
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 Post subject: Re: why do only Japanese jackets develop brown spots (foxing
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2020, 00:44 
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I used to see them at Tower Video back in the early 90s, Always wondered if they were returns that were sent to the USA and then they got shrink wrapped
since nobody would really know.

Could never figure out what the deal was and I was too young to think of asking and never had my father ask.
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 Post subject: Re: why do only Japanese jackets develop brown spots (foxing
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2020, 01:22 
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Most of the VIDEO ARTS Japanese music LD releases were shrink wrapped. Also the NEW SELECT releases. They usually had sticker OBIs on the shrink wrap.

They are the exceptions though as most Japanese LDs came in the sealed poly bags.

As for shrink wrapped box sets any of the F1 sets I picked up "new" came in bags & the lovely NEON GENESIS EVANGELION Limited Box came bagged.

These poly bags are great & appear to last well.
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