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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2019, 21:34 
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forper wrote:
Not sure why I have to like anything after 1996? I took a quick look at now and then..where are the bad a** mecha? Nah, the '80s is all I need, humanity had already peaked. The ultimate time.

would it also depend on the fact you might be tired of it and just stick to what you know and love? I mean I've gotten tired of it all and not really watch anything unless I have it. I've also been going through my lists to see what I really want to keep as I can't keep everything but I wish I could.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2019, 22:45 
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It’s like the entire universe was only born to be eventually developed into the exact state required for me to appreciate the exact world I existed in when I was (whatever age) which was heaven. ANY further change in culture or anything else in the further millions of years is of course a perversion of nature and to be loathed.


Usually whenever your first two years of college were. The people who think it was 1964 are the worst.

There is a case to me made that anime objectively collapsed right around the time he’s talking about. It’s not even a debate really, it’s a fact. Ask anyone who works in the industry. There were a lot of people who thought it was much earlier, like 1984, and those people also have a case because both eras saw declining investment.

It’s mostly the other thing in this guys’s case though.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2019, 22:47 
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forper wrote:
watch Fang of the Sun Dougram before I get into Votoms properly

I see you are a man of exceptional taste, much like myself. :thumbup:

Although I didn't think Orguss was all that great, it was still better than Southern Cross.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2019, 01:14 
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signofzeta wrote:
It’s like the entire universe was only born to be eventually developed into the exact state required for me to appreciate the exact world I existed in when I was (whatever age) which was heaven. ANY further change in culture or anything else in the further millions of years is of course a perversion of nature and to be loathed.


Usually whenever your first two years of college were. The people who think it was 1964 are the worst.

There is a case to me made that anime objectively collapsed right around the time he’s talking about. It’s not even a debate really, it’s a fact. Ask anyone who works in the industry. There were a lot of people who thought it was much earlier, like 1984, and those people also have a case because both eras saw declining investment.

It’s mostly the other thing in this guys’s case though.


I would agree that anime fell off, especially by the late 90s. There is still interesting stuff being made but it is by far the exception and not the norm. It's mainly a comfort food medium now. Sometimes you find them in the least likely of places too.

I will recommend these post 2000 series, for whatever that is worth.

Mushishi
Monster
Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun (this is extremely meta)
Hachimitsu to Clover
3-gatsu no Lion
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2019, 08:08 
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Does whether or not the industry declined really matter? If you love something then watch it. if you hate don't. it doesn't matter the year. As long as its fun to watch or something that really interest you then so be it. I don't really care when it declined or whatever. I know I rather watch the stuff I have and possibly find older stuff that I don't know about but that's probably due to me not really interested in modern things.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2019, 08:16 
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gypsy wrote:
forper wrote:
Not sure why I have to like anything after 1996? I took a quick look at now and then..where are the bad a** mecha? Nah, the '80s is all I need, humanity had already peaked. The ultimate time.


Everyone thinks that about when they grew up.


Well if you like real robot then it was the only time.

It was also a time when an uneducated factory worker could buy a 4 bedroom house in Australia without too much trouble. Low level public servants had a house, ran a car, had a laserdisc player and imported discs from Japan at full price in the early '90s in Australia. I knew many of them that ran the local anime club.

Today 30 year old low level public servants and factory workers probably live in a share house or with their parents, take the bus and have a netflix subscription they split the bill on.

Standards of living in the West (and Japan) have dropped for the average dude, they peaked in the '80s and early '90s so it's not just nostalgia.

If you consider a massive network of computers used by governments, criminal sydnicates and corporations to oppress and control people progress then okay now is a great time.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2019, 08:29 
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takeshi666 wrote:
forper wrote:
watch Fang of the Sun Dougram before I get into Votoms properly

I see you are a man of exceptional taste, much like myself. :thumbup:

Although I didn't think Orguss was all that great, it was still better than Southern Cross.


I probably should have started with Dougram for my Takahashi viewing but I already did Layzner last year and that was really great to me. Dougram was one of the shows that FASA ripped off for designs in Battletech and that Revell released as kits under their Robotech Defenders line. I had Battletech as a kid and built models so I've always wanted to see the show.

Orguss is a show I love from fansub days, the Mikimoto designs, the mecha, the characters, the whole look and concept is really good imo. I need to pay it respects with the proper LD box and a rewatch.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2019, 10:02 
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xtempo wrote:
Does whether or not the industry declined really matter? If you love something then watch it. if you hate don't. it doesn't matter the year. As long as its fun to watch or something that really interest you then so be it. I don't really care when it declined or whatever. I know I rather watch the stuff I have and possibly find older stuff that I don't know about but that's probably due to me not really interested in modern things.


I'll watch anything from any era, of course. I don't just see that its from 2006 and then put it down. I do feel its pretty dang hard to find any current anime that hooks me whereas I'm still plowing through the TV dials of the 80s and finding stuff I like. A lot of those corny robot of the week shows are pretty solid, a lot are crap. Its fun to figure out which is which. Combattler V has some really heavy plots for a toy show.

What keeps me out of the new stuff probably the most is that there is no creative thread to follow. It used to be once you figured out you liked Yoshikazu Yasuhiko or Go Nagai or Leiji Matsumoto that mean you could probably trust anything else they did which would then take you to some pretty far off places. I don't find much of the new stuff interesting and even when it is it feels more like there's just zero personal touch on anything so I never bother to look up the character designer or director. Like Space Brothers, for example, which is I show I really like. I don't care who made it or really about anything else they may have done. Its like Ron Howard stuff. Often competent, never inspiring or inspired. Not like Tezuka or whatever.

The other thing that is gone is the sense that "anime could be anything" and that the next great leap forward was right around the corner. Now its less about being "anything" and more about being someone's *exact* favorite thing so they can rub their parts on it for 158 episodes.

Also, yeah, mecha anime died and that was a big part of it for me. That aspect is really just a part of all scifi anime getting so thin. My favorite scifi of all time is mostly anime, Douglas Adams, and Kurt Vonnegut. Now that its influence has seeped into almost every art form its easy to forget how exciting and worth ripping off the classic anime from the 70s-90s was. Somehow cliche reinforcement just took over everything in anime and now Cartoon Network is somehow doing good stuff and is in fact a significant force in animation? The future is weird. You'd think that even in the leanest of times there would be some sub-scene in Japan cranking out ground breaking stuff, especially now that anyone can animate with stuff you can get almost for free. I don't really see it though.

I did see Boy and the World (2013) and that felt like it had the spirit of Tezuka or someone like that. The next great wave of cool stuff is happening right now someplace most likely and we just aren't cool enough to know what it is yet. It probably won't be from Japan though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_and_the_World
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2019, 11:54 
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signofzeta wrote:
xtempo wrote:
I did see Boy and the World (2013) and that felt like it had the spirit of Tezuka or someone like that. The next great wave of cool stuff is happening right now someplace most likely and we just aren't cool enough to know what it is yet. It probably won't be from Japan though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_and_the_World


Wow, that looks really dumb. An art house try-hard waste of time.

Is that supposed to be anywhere near as cool as super high frame hand drawn combat sequences of gorgeous mecha with gritty war story backdrops from the 80s in Japan?

Don't make me laugh, if that is anywhere near "a next great wave of cool stuff" I'm completely right, the world of popular culture already peaked 30 years ago.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2019, 15:47 
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forper wrote:
I probably should have started with Dougram for my Takahashi viewing but I already did Layzner last year and that was really great to me. Dougram was one of the shows that FASA ripped off for designs in Battletech and that Revell released as kits under their Robotech Defenders line. I had Battletech as a kid and built models so I've always wanted to see the show.

Dougram does do that annoying thing that Victory Gundam also did where they basically show an episode from much later first, just to feature the main mecha in the first episode. If you skip it or save it for later, it actually takes quite a bit before the main character ever gets to pilot it.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2019, 15:56 
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forper wrote:
Not sure why I have to like anything after 1996? I took a quick look at now and then..where are the bad a** mecha? Nah, the '80s is all I need, humanity had already peaked. The ultimate time.


well, Japanese CE products had certainly peaked around that time. the world has never seen anything like it since, and probably never will.

for those of us that were either too young and/or too poor to have had a crack at partaking in that era,
the first decade of the 21st century was a godsend, in which many of us could often find the leftovers of that age
at far more reasonable prices...
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2019, 18:10 
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signofzeta wrote:
xtempo wrote:
Does whether or not the industry declined really matter? If you love something then watch it. if you hate don't. it doesn't matter the year. As long as its fun to watch or something that really interest you then so be it. I don't really care when it declined or whatever. I know I rather watch the stuff I have and possibly find older stuff that I don't know about but that's probably due to me not really interested in modern things.


I'll watch anything from any era, of course. I don't just see that its from 2006 and then put it down. I do feel its pretty dang hard to find any current anime that hooks me whereas I'm still plowing through the TV dials of the 80s and finding stuff I like. A lot of those corny robot of the week shows are pretty solid, a lot are crap. Its fun to figure out which is which. Combattler V has some really heavy plots for a toy show.

What keeps me out of the new stuff probably the most is that there is no creative thread to follow. It used to be once you figured out you liked Yoshikazu Yasuhiko or Go Nagai or Leiji Matsumoto that mean you could probably trust anything else they did which would then take you to some pretty far off places. I don't find much of the new stuff interesting and even when it is it feels more like there's just zero personal touch on anything so I never bother to look up the character designer or director. Like Space Brothers, for example, which is I show I really like. I don't care who made it or really about anything else they may have done. Its like Ron Howard stuff. Often competent, never inspiring or inspired. Not like Tezuka or whatever.

The other thing that is gone is the sense that "anime could be anything" and that the next great leap forward was right around the corner. Now its less about being "anything" and more about being someone's *exact* favorite thing so they can rub their parts on it for 158 episodes.

Also, yeah, mecha anime died and that was a big part of it for me. That aspect is really just a part of all scifi anime getting so thin. My favorite scifi of all time is mostly anime, Douglas Adams, and Kurt Vonnegut. Now that its influence has seeped into almost every art form its easy to forget how exciting and worth ripping off the classic anime from the 70s-90s was. Somehow cliche reinforcement just took over everything in anime and now Cartoon Network is somehow doing good stuff and is in fact a significant force in animation? The future is weird. You'd think that even in the leanest of times there would be some sub-scene in Japan cranking out ground breaking stuff, especially now that anyone can animate with stuff you can get almost for free. I don't really see it though.

I did see Boy and the World (2013) and that felt like it had the spirit of Tezuka or someone like that. The next great wave of cool stuff is happening right now someplace most likely and we just aren't cool enough to know what it is yet. It probably won't be from Japan though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_and_the_World


I wouldn't put Vonnegut and Adams in the same sentence.

I didn't care for Astro Boy, haven't seen anything else from Tezuka.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2019, 23:54 
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Rewatching Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water, having picked up the "vook" box set recently - with MPV handling the TV card input and overlaying Central Anime's 1993 JACOsub file from publius's collection. Last watched this back around 2002 when a friend and I went through the whole series in a day...

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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2019, 00:03 
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do you have the shipping box [the outer carboard box] for Nadia? It took me awhile to get the set that came with one.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2019, 19:03 
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xtempo wrote:
do you have the shipping box [the outer carboard box] for Nadia?


Nope! Although it did come wrapped neatly in Japanese newspaper, which was a bit surprising given the seller was in Lincolnshire.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2019, 21:39 
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forper wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
xtempo wrote:
I did see Boy and the World (2013) and that felt like it had the spirit of Tezuka or someone like that. The next great wave of cool stuff is happening right now someplace most likely and we just aren't cool enough to know what it is yet. It probably won't be from Japan though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_and_the_World


Wow, that looks really dumb. An art house try-hard waste of time.

Is that supposed to be anywhere near as cool as super high frame hand drawn combat sequences of gorgeous mecha with gritty war story backdrops from the 80s in Japan?

Don't make me laugh, if that is anywhere near "a next great wave of cool stuff" I'm completely right, the world of popular culture already peaked 30 years ago.


What rank were you discharged at?
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2019, 22:18 
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gypsy wrote:

I wouldn't put Vonnegut and Adams in the same sentence.

I didn't care for Astro Boy, haven't seen anything else from Tezuka.


The Astro Boy manga, particularly the stuff from the 70s, is extremely great. Astro Boy anime is up and down but never as inspired as the paper version.

Astro Boy was quite famously what kept the lights on for as long as they would stay on anyway...his manga is much more impressive than his anime but his anime was ground breaking on so many levels I couldn’t even begin to explain it. It’s not an exaggeration to say that he basically invented anime or more specifically the means by which a Japanese animation industry could exist. I put it that way because there was no anime industry before Tezuka. No TV anime at all. None. Maybe one or two theatrical works and of course no OVA. It wasn’t something anyone did except for advertisements where the pay was good enough. Tezuka developed means of production that were so cheap they could make a way for themselves. Using “staff art”, shooting on 3s max, making new ways to recycle materials and speed up productions were the only way to do it. That same economizing is what made anime as we know it possible. The emphasis on getting “the drawing” correct and then leaning on it as hard as possible is basically what anime is. He also did stuff that didn’t conform to the cheaper style of anime at all, such as Legend of the Forest which is basically an ecological tale told in a way that also highlights the entire history of animation. While making mega hits he also would do shorter works for international festivals. Stuff like Jumping https://youtu.be/0zBqKj1XOXs which is the opposite of TV anime with full frame animation.

I’m not really sure what to recommend for his anime but for manga I’d say Buddha is the best comic I’ve ever read. He drew something like 150,000 pages of manga even though he died at 61. Publishers attempting to publish “the complete works” in massive sets seem to constantly be finding new stuff. He would cover more subject matter than Terry Gilliam and Werner Herzog have combined. I’m not someone who really believes in “genius” as a concept but if I had to pick someone to nominate it would be him...which reminds me...he was also an MD before he drew comics professionally.

The funny thing about the Adams/Vonnegut comment is that I’m not sure who’s an insult to who. I guess KV wrote a crap load more stuff. To me they are of similar mind. The Siren’s of Titan is clearly inspirational work for Hitchhikers.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2019, 23:54 
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I'm not too big on Adams. Though to be fair I should give the original medium of Hitchhiker a shot, presuming it is available in some form.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2019, 02:13 
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gypsy wrote:
I'm not too big on Adams. Though to be fair I should give the original medium of Hitchhiker a shot, presuming it is available in some form.

Honestly don't bother.
Just watch the TV or hear the Radio for the first two books, in my opinion the rest went down hill.
I couldn't get through the 4th book.

Tezuka is a hit or miss, you really need to watch it and enjoy it for the anime and message, I feel like without him there wouldn't have
been any Miyazaki.

Just watching that one scene in Space Firebird where he is ordered to kill those little creatures and won't, then the other guy is laughing
while shooting them is just sad and real in so many ways, almost like any nature message Ghibli does.
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 Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2019, 04:30 
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gypsy wrote:
I'm not too big on Adams. Though to be fair I should give the original medium of Hitchhiker a shot, presuming it is available in some form.


I would actually recommend The Salmon of Doubt which is just a collection of various scraps. It gives a great picture of who he was. Hella sharp but very lazy. Him and Bill Hicks are my two big “what if they had lived” guys. Hitchhikers is a comedy and one with very annoying fans but it’s also filled with some of the most brilliant science fiction concepts ever, IMO.

He also wrote The Pirate Planet which is one of my favorite classic Who episodes but if you were into that kind of stuff you’d probabky already be a Douglas Adams fan.

The ORIGINAL version of the Guide was the radio play and even Adams admits that had the most heart. I’d argue the first three are legit. The Dirk Gently books can’t be ignored though.
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