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 Post subject: BlackMagic Intensity Pro for GENLOCK (video overlay) ?
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2013, 16:44 
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Have anyone actually used this PC-card for outputting subtitles overlay on the LD-signal ? Could anyone guide me on how I should connect the player, card, pc, tv ? Just got to borrow one and wanted to see if it works smoothly but I hve no idea how to actually connect all units correct, and what program to use.
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 Post subject: Re: BlackMagic Intensity Pro for GENLOCK (video overlay) ?
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2013, 23:04 
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I have never used this specific card.

I am using a Coriogen Eclipse standalone genlock to overlay subtitles on LD image.

It's all wired up like this:
S-Video OUT from LD Player to S-Video IN on the genlock - genlock is connected to VGA OUT of the computer
Then... S-Video OUT from the genlock goes to S-Video IN on your Display (not the computer monitor, but where you watch LD's)

The software I use for the subtitles is SubStationAlpha, it's free, and it's Windows (old and outdated on top of it all).
It is also in the WINE database and supposedly works on WINE/Linux.
It has a Playback function, which turns the computer screen black entirely, the genlock will only overlay whatever is not black onto the LD image.
Also, the editor is really nice, especially the timing interface.

Hope this helped.
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 Post subject: Re: BlackMagic Intensity Pro for GENLOCK (video overlay) ?
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2013, 23:51 
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lons_vex wrote:
I have never used this specific card.

I am using a Coriogen Eclipse standalone genlock to overlay subtitles on LD image.

It's all wired up like this:
S-Video OUT from LD Player to S-Video IN on the genlock - genlock is connected to VGA OUT of the computer
Then... S-Video OUT from the genlock goes to S-Video IN on your Display (not the computer monitor, but where you watch LD's)

The software I use for the subtitles is SubStationAlpha, it's free, and it's Windows (old and outdated on top of it all).
It is also in the WINE database and supposedly works on WINE/Linux.
It has a Playback function, which turns the computer screen black entirely, the genlock will only overlay whatever is not black onto the LD image.
Also, the editor is really nice, especially the timing interface.

Hope this helped.



Doesnt this Coriogen Eclipse the signal worse or is the picture quality of the ld unchanged you think ?

I have got little result with any decent quality of the capture cards so far so I am thinking of giving the capture cards up. Might go for the Coriogen Eclipse if you say it works god, atleast then I know someone can help out a noob like me =)
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 Post subject: Re: BlackMagic Intensity Pro for GENLOCK (video overlay) ?
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2013, 00:49 
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johan184 wrote:
Have anyone actually used this PC-card for outputting subtitles overlay on the LD-signal ? Could anyone guide me on how I should connect the player, card, pc, tv ? Just got to borrow one and wanted to see if it works smoothly but I hve no idea how to actually connect all units correct, and what program to use.


I use the Black Magic Intensity hub, very similar to the card. Don't know what Genlock is or why you would want to output subtitles over another signal. What source would the subtitles be from? I take it your subtitles are from a digital source and you want to overlay them onto an analog signal which is probably converted to digital? If so, then why not just capture the analog to digital with the Black Magic and use Adobe Premiere to lay your subtitles onto it?
The issue with the Black Magic Intensity card/hub is that the motherboard has to be compatible to work properly. They can be very touchy, but once working are fantastic. I capture all my analog material through this device.

8-) Elvis
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 Post subject: Re: BlackMagic Intensity Pro for GENLOCK (video overlay) ?
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2013, 01:02 
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elviscaprice wrote:
johan184 wrote:
Have anyone actually used this PC-card for outputting subtitles overlay on the LD-signal ? Could anyone guide me on how I should connect the player, card, pc, tv ? Just got to borrow one and wanted to see if it works smoothly but I hve no idea how to actually connect all units correct, and what program to use.


I use the Black Magic Intensity hub, very similar to the card. Don't know what Genlock is or why you would want to output subtitles over another signal. What source would the subtitles be from? I take it your subtitles are from a digital source and you want to overlay them onto an analog signal which is probably converted to digital? If so, then why not just capture the analog to digital with the Black Magic and use Adobe Premiere to lay your subtitles onto it?
The issue with the Black Magic Intensity card/hub is that the motherboard has to be compatible to work properly. They can be very touchy, but once working are fantastic. I capture all my analog material through this device.

8-) Elvis



Well the problem is that I want to overlay the signal with the subtitles LIVE, not save the film file and then put the subtitle on. I think lons_vex understood what I wanted to do. Pretty much as you overlay a divx movie with .srt subtitles in VLC (or other players), except that my source is from the ld, captured by the card.

Hard for me to explain this. Live overlay on the analog signal.
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 Post subject: Re: BlackMagic Intensity Pro for GENLOCK (video overlay) ?
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2013, 03:24 
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johan184 wrote:

Well the problem is that I want to overlay the signal with the subtitles LIVE, not save the film file and then put the subtitle on. I think lons_vex understood what I wanted to do. Pretty much as you overlay a divx movie with .srt subtitles in VLC (or other players), except that my source is from the ld, captured by the card.

Hard for me to explain this. Live overlay on the analog signal.


Let me ask you this. Are you converting the LD analog digitally? You have to be doing a digital convert somewhere (I take it your want the Black Magic card to do this and thus output it digitally real time. If so, then why not capture first. Your options become much greater and easier using different pc software to achieve what you want. Live subtitles that I take you are manually applying as the source plays. Unless your playing direct from the LD in AC3 sound digital. Then difficulties arise in capturing this sound.
As I always say, if you end up watching on a digital tv/monitor your analog source then you have a choice as to when you go digital. Might as well be early on in the process where you can have better control over the output.

Check the Black Magic website for compatibility motherboards before trying to install.

Trying to help, but I'll bug off here if your solution lies elsewhere. Good luck, wish I understood why?
:) Elvis
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 Post subject: Re: BlackMagic Intensity Pro for GENLOCK (video overlay) ?
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2013, 03:49 
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I guess publius would be the one to ask for this since he's done it before.
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 Post subject: Re: BlackMagic Intensity Pro for GENLOCK (video overlay) ?
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2013, 05:01 
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elviscaprice wrote:
johan184 wrote:

Well the problem is that I want to overlay the signal with the subtitles LIVE, not save the film file and then put the subtitle on. I think lons_vex understood what I wanted to do. Pretty much as you overlay a divx movie with .srt subtitles in VLC (or other players), except that my source is from the ld, captured by the card.

Hard for me to explain this. Live overlay on the analog signal.


Let me ask you this. Are you converting the LD analog digitally? You have to be doing a digital convert somewhere (I take it your want the Black Magic card to do this and thus output it digitally real time. If so, then why not capture first. Your options become much greater and easier using different pc software to achieve what you want. Live subtitles that I take you are manually applying as the source plays. Unless your playing direct from the LD in AC3 sound digital. Then difficulties arise in capturing this sound.
As I always say, if you end up watching on a digital tv/monitor your analog source then you have a choice as to when you go digital. Might as well be early on in the process where you can have better control over the output.

Check the Black Magic website for compatibility motherboards before trying to install.

Trying to help, but I'll bug off here if your solution lies elsewhere. Good luck, wish I understood why?
:) Elvis


I think we can drop the digital/analog talk, if I can get it work with outputting a digital signal then I will do that, if it would work with just bypassing the analog source then I will do that.

If you look at what Lons-vex wrote, thats exactly what I want to do. But I want to use my computer instead of his "Coriogen Eclipse standalone genlock". The sound is a later problem, the easiest way would be to just connect the LD-players sound directly to the reciever, so that would not need to be connected with the pc.

I did make some success with a usb capture card, with that I would just stream from the capture card and just input an .srt subtitle and then show it fullscreen. But I feel that there should be a way of using the computer as an GENLOCK, just overlaying the subtitles on the capture cards signal.

But I think it would save me a lot of time to just go and buy a "genlock". And I just wont capture the whole LD and then add subtitles and then play it again. Then I can just download the dvd-rip.

But I do appreciate all the help, even if I having a hard time explaining the problem.
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 Post subject: Re: BlackMagic Intensity Pro for GENLOCK (video overlay) ?
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2013, 09:04 
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Well I can tell you this: The picture quality is untouched by the genlock.
Unless you have a broken one, or some weird one that I don't know about.
I used another genlock before the coriogen eclipse, and there was also no problem with the picture quality either.
Thing is, the picture is left untouched, it is more or less set to "pass-through", the only thing that gets added
is whatever you want to overlay onto it.

I've been using genlocks to watch japanese anime laserdiscs with subtitles since 2001.
There is no "digital/analog" whatever the hell elviscaprice is talking about I don't know.
He doesn't know what a genlock overlay is, most likely.
However he asked an interesting question: "What source would the subtitles be from?"
There used to be websites in the past specializing on this topic, as there were quite a bunch of people out there
using genlocks to impose subtitles over LD video, and even DVD video or making bootleg VHS with it.
These sites are all gone now. So basically, you are on your own modifying subtitle scripts you find somewhere,
or you have to make your own from scratch even.

Here is an old picture from my setup, displaying subtitles with a Cream Lemon LD:
Image

For easy understanding:
You can freely chose the font, the font size, the color and the subtitle position.
I always preferred the yellowish font, others may want white, or even pink.

Cheers!
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 Post subject: Re: BlackMagic Intensity Pro for GENLOCK (video overlay) ?
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2013, 11:32 
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lons_vex wrote:
Well I can tell you this: The picture quality is untouched by the genlock.
Unless you have a broken one, or some weird one that I don't know about.
I used another genlock before the coriogen eclipse, and there was also no problem with the picture quality either.
Thing is, the picture is left untouched, it is more or less set to "pass-through", the only thing that gets added
is whatever you want to overlay onto it.

I've been using genlocks to watch japanese anime laserdiscs with subtitles since 2001.
There is no "digital/analog" whatever the hell elviscaprice is talking about I don't know.
He doesn't know what a genlock overlay is, most likely.
However he asked an interesting question: "What source would the subtitles be from?"
There used to be websites in the past specializing on this topic, as there were quite a bunch of people out there
using genlocks to impose subtitles over LD video, and even DVD video or making bootleg VHS with it.
These sites are all gone now. So basically, you are on your own modifying subtitle scripts you find somewhere,
or you have to make your own from scratch even.

Here is an old picture from my setup, displaying subtitles with a Cream Lemon LD:
Image

For easy understanding:
You can freely chose the font, the font size, the color and the subtitle position.
I always preferred the yellowish font, others may want white, or even pink.

Cheers!


Nah, Elvis talks about my way to expensive crappy capture card =) I bet its a great card but it doesnt seem to be able to just overlay the video signal in the same way a 13 years old unit can =)

I will try out your unit, there actually were one for sale for a decent price on ebay, much less than the video card =)
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 Post subject: Re: BlackMagic Intensity Pro for GENLOCK (video overlay) ?
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2013, 12:07 
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By the way, is there anywhere on the net were you can still find subs for old "anime" ?
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 Post subject: Re: BlackMagic Intensity Pro for GENLOCK (video overlay) ?
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2013, 01:25 
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lons_vex wrote:
I've been using genlocks to watch japanese anime laserdiscs with subtitles since 2001.
There is no "digital/analog" whatever the hell elviscaprice is talking about I don't know.
He doesn't know what a genlock overlay is, most likely.
However he asked an interesting question: "What source would the subtitles be from?"
There used to be websites in the past specializing on this topic, as there were quite a bunch of people out there
using genlocks to impose subtitles over LD video, and even DVD video or making bootleg VHS with it.
These sites are all gone now. So basically, you are on your own modifying subtitle scripts you find somewhere,
or you have to make your own from scratch even.


Your right, I don't know what a genlock is and never heard of it till now. But I can see why it was popular for making boot legs from analog signals and possible digital until a cheaper method came along.
I suspect that the need to use such a device with finalized digital bootlegs became obsolete when video editing softwares became capable of handling this task on a pc and the public demand for medium was DVD.

Here's a little eHow link on how to do this in Premiere manually. http://www.ehow.com/how_14450_add-text-over.html
I'm sure there is plenty of software out there and different methods to accomplish this method of adding subscripts to a digital video.

With analog only signal, non captured digitally, your stuck with this Genlock, which I again know nothing about other than the simple explanation on Wikipedia.

Good luck on the project.
8-) Elvis
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 Post subject: Re: BlackMagic Intensity Pro for GENLOCK (video overlay) ?
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2013, 01:59 
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The thing is that I want it to be done live, so I can just put on the rright sub and watch the LD, thats the whole point. If I would capture the movie first, then add them I could just download the movie.

BlackMagic got something called Chroma Key/Live key which seems to be an function to do exactly this: adding subtitle overlay, or whatever you want. Only problem is that this is only supported buy their cards with DECKLINK, which the Intensity isnt. So if you buy a more expensive card from them you get this function =)
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 Post subject: Re: BlackMagic Intensity Pro for GENLOCK (video overlay) ?
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2013, 11:11 
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johan184 wrote:
The thing is that I want it to be done live, so I can just put on the rright sub and watch the LD, thats the whole point. If I would capture the movie first, then add them I could just download the movie.


Please explain this a bit more? Where is your overlay source coming from? From the PC? Subtitles only? When you say live do you mean in real time?
Your saying the movie is available digitally with the correct subtitles you want, but you would rather watch the movie from the laserdisc and add the subscripts to the movie to view in real time?

Is the picture quality that greatly different from the LD source to the digital?
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 Post subject: Re: BlackMagic Intensity Pro for GENLOCK (video overlay) ?
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2013, 23:46 
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johan184 wrote:
By the way, is there anywhere on the net were you can still find subs for old "anime" ?

I have a large quantity of them which I have downloaded from different places. PM me with specific titles, & I can tell you if I have the scripts.

elviscaprice wrote:
Please explain this a bit more? Where is your overlay source coming from? From the PC? Subtitles only? When you say live do you mean in real time?

Yes, live, in real time. What you do is, you load a subtitle file in a certain piece of software on your computer ; then, you connect the computer video output to the "genlock" ; connect the LD player to the "genlock" ; then start both playing back simultaneously. The computer video, consisting of subtitles on a black background, is downconverted to NTSC resolution, in synchronism with the input video from LD (this is the "genlock" function strictly speaking), & mixed with (or punched into) the input video.

I frequently do this when watching old anime, or showing it at conventions. At Project A-Kon this year, probably a third of my 12 hours of "Classic Anime Festival" material was shown with live fansubs.

Maybe you have trouble understanding it, but those of us with large libraries of anime LDs might well regard it as a complete waste of time & effort to spend the time to convert them into some other format, or to download or buy copies in some other format, when we can just watch them.
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 Post subject: Re: BlackMagic Intensity Pro for GENLOCK (video overlay) ?
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2013, 00:57 
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It'd be great if someone wrote a guide on how to set this sort of thing up. There's a lot of anime LDs I'd love to buy but my Japanese isn't fluent enough to understand what's going on without subtitles.
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 Post subject: Re: BlackMagic Intensity Pro for GENLOCK (video overlay) ?
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2013, 02:29 
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hauntmedoitagain wrote:
It'd be great if someone wrote a guide on how to set this sort of thing up. There's a lot of anime LDs I'd love to buy but my Japanese isn't fluent enough to understand what's going on without subtitles.



I am on my way, just have to get my lazy a** to the store and by a power adapter. I think I might be the right person to write a guide on how to do, since I an a total noob it will be understandable for other noobs. It looks like the hardest part is to find the subtitles today...
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 Post subject: Re: BlackMagic Intensity Pro for GENLOCK (video overlay) ?
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2013, 09:12 
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Finding the subtitles will often not be the final goal.
As they will not sync, or go out of sync after a while.
You'll have to put extra work into most of them.
Unless Publius has an awesome library of course.
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 Post subject: Re: BlackMagic Intensity Pro for GENLOCK (video overlay) ?
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2013, 20:35 
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lons_vex wrote:
Finding the subtitles will often not be the final goal.
As they will not sync, or go out of sync after a while.
You'll have to put extra work into most of them.
Unless Publius has an awesome library of course.

I only wish! No, mine get corrected & re-edited as I watch them, so scripts I don't have a disc for will be pretty much unknown territory. Plus for some things, such as Maison Ikkoku, I have three or four distinct sets of scripts, & sorting them all out is a task I hardly feel prepared to handle.
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