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 Post subject: Faroudja Bandwidth Expansion (calling disclord)
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2013, 04:41 
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I recently bought a Faroudja DVP-3000 badged as a Vidikron DVS3500. From the manual:

Quote:
Most composite video and S-Video sources have been filtered to reduce the amount of signal (bandwidth) for recording and transmission purposes. This can significantly reduce color edge detail causing colors, such as Red, to blur onto White backgrounds. Faroudja’s Patented Color Bandwidth Expansion circuit actively monitors the color signal and significantly increases color edge detail to levels typically found only in production studio original material.

Quote:
Faroudja’s patented Luminance Bandwidth Expansion circuit is able to greatly increase the perceived resolution of any video source by reducing the time it takes the signal to change from one level to the next (called Rise-Times). This normally can only be accomplished by increasing the bandwidth of the signal. Faroudja’s unique circuit yields detail levels typically found only with high-bandwidth production studio original material.

Quote:
By never compromising at any point in the circuitry, Faroudja processors will yield unparalleled image quality, matching 35mm film in color, detail and dramatic impact.
( :lol: at that last one)

I had seen disclord's posts saying how this can improve VHS & LD.

disclord wrote:
The 9800's Digi-Pure circuitry really helps improve the picture - it uses Faroudja's chroma and luma bandwidth expansion as well as a temporal-based luma/chroma noise reduction, image Stabalizer and has a superb 3D Motion Adaptive Comb Filter that, when combined with the other features, makes the image look like it has much wider bandwidth and no NTSC artifacts.

But then I saw this one that seems to indicate that Faroudja's chroma resolution is actually poor?

disclord wrote:
Faroudja products always have had low chroma resolution because they use his color bandwidth expansion technique which makes it look like more color resolution than it really is. Like in Faroudja equipped DVD players the vertical chroma resolution is only a single field of 120 lines instead of the full 240 lines DVD is capable of.

And Secrets of Home Theater & High Fidelity's reviewers seem conflicted about it:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7 ... -2000.html
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8 ... -2001.html

The only bad things Mr. Spears has to say about the DVP-3000's chroma are that Pb/Pr are combined for processing, and a moth-eaten effect on certain menus. But Mr. Johnson indicates that "the NRS is outputting the full chroma bandwidth, where the DVP3000 is rolled off dramatically."

So will these features in the processor actually give me better quality for my analog-to-digital conversions, or not? What would be the quickest test?
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 Post subject: Re: Faroudja Bandwidth Expansion (calling disclord)
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2013, 11:00 
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The comment about "poor chroma bandwidth" means that Faroudja products had NTSC levels of chroma bandwidth and not the 3.25MHz or so of DVD. For the standard def component component inputs, Faroudja gear typically combined the separate wide band Pr and Pb signals into a single I/Q S-Video signal for processing by their internal S-video decoder and then had the chroma bandwidth expansion applied, which gave them the look of much greater bandwidth.

For processing LaserDisc, Faroudja's odd method of dealing with chroma isn't any sort of drawback because no LaserDisc has greater than 2MHz of chroma (160 lines) - and that number is for SuperNTSC encoded titles. LaserDisc's that have been encoded with a regular NTSC encoder have a maximum of 40 lines of resolution for combined RGB colors (due to the narrow Green/purple axis) and 120 lines for wide orange/cyan axis. Lots of NTSC decoders chop off the wide band Orange/Cyan axis of colors and reduce them to the same narrow band 40-lines that the The green/purple axis occupies, which reduces resolution and sharpness for ALL colors.

So for LaserDisc, Faroudja's processing doesn't affect anything in a negative way since the resolution is already lower than what the Faroudja produces.

The weird bites out of red colors are due to the chroma expansion being turned up too high - but the weird thing is, although I've seen it on warning screens and such, I've never actually seen it on program material.
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 Post subject: Re: Faroudja Bandwidth Expansion (calling disclord)
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2013, 21:57 
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That is a weird chroma processing pathway, all right.

I'm guessing that menu screens & the like, being computer-generated (starting in the RGB domain), often are not constructed with the greatest care regarding chroma gamut & luma/chroma transition edge sharpness. Real program material doesn't ordinarly encounter that, because of the limitations of things such as video cameras & (especially) film. I wonder if any of my anime LDs would show up this effect? (Probably not.)
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