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 Post subject: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2011, 21:45 
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I work for an electronics recycler, and from time to time we get in DVD recorders. Today we got in three. A Panasonic, Samsung, and Magnavox. Only the Panasonic worked, it was model DMR-E50. I talked to Panasonic to ask if this machine contained a 3D Y/C filter. He told me no. I asked him if any of the ones they currently sell do, and he told me that Panasonic does not include a 3D comb filter in any of its DVD recorders. I was taken aback, that even their brand new ones do not have this tech. So my question is one DVD recorders actually have 3D comb filters?
  
 
 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2011, 22:14 
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I'm thinking that person you talked to for Panasonic didn't know what they're talking about as several members here on the forum say that they use a Panasonic DVD recorder and talk highly of the comb filter contained therein.

It's not surprising. If you call Panasonic these days, I wouldn't be surprised if the person you talk to didn't know that Panasonic made Laserdisc players!

I imagine they might be confusing "3D comb filter" with "3D blu-ray" :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2011, 23:06 
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possibly, but that doesn't mean that all their DVD recorders contain 3D comb filters. I currently have a Panasonic and Samsung DVD Recorder, and the Samsung clearly does better in the Snell and Wilcox Test. The Samsung has only very faint rainbows when moving, none when still. The Panasonic has much worse rainbows all the time.

The Samsung has something called 3D noise reduction, which I assume means 3D comb filter. Although turning 3D noise reduction on and off does nothing to change the Snell and Wilcox test.

Are all 3D comb filters created equal? Is it possible to have a Snell and Wilcox test where I see no rainbows?
  
 
 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2011, 23:24 
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Well a 3d comb filter only helps with motion, so perhaps Panasonic preferred to just use a "better" 2d comb filter?
Also, I think 3d noise reduction might just be some sort of DVNR.
My RCA DRC8335 has no rainbows on stills, but has faint rainbows on motion. That AVS thread people who use this DVD recorder (including me) link to a lot, from my experience with the player, uses shots of when the circle pattern is still.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 28 Dec 2011, 01:33 
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I'm using the Panasonic DMR-ES15. It shows the Snell and Wilcox with faint rainbows when moving, and none when still.

If anyone finds a DVD recorder that exhibits zero rainbows with the Snell and Wilcox moving, I'd love to hear about it.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 28 Dec 2011, 04:46 
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Okay so it sounds like my Samsung does have a 3D filter then.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 28 Dec 2011, 18:11 
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If you have several LD players, you could bring one into work and test it out. Do you have Video Essentials so you can try the DVD recorder with the Snell and Wilcox test pattern?
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2012, 05:35 
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After playing around a lot more I've noticed that my TV's 3D comb filter seems to be the best so far. I have mentioned in other threads that I own a Panasonic ST30 Plasma. It's 3D comb filter can be turned on and off from within the menu. What is suprising is that the difference between the filter being on and off is most apparent in the two boxes beside SW2 NTSC. With the filter on there are no rainbows in those boxes. Very similar to the RCA dvd recorder you posted. I was still hoping to get 3D comb filtration before feeding it into my Faroudja Upscaler, but your DVD recorder cannot be had cheaply on eBay right now, and I suspect I may ditch the Faroudja Upscaler entirely.

What is interesting is the comb filters in both my Samsung, and Panasonic DVD recorders result in the same poor snell and wilcox test. Both of these also fail compared to my TV with the 3D comb filter turned off. I guess Panasonic really put a nice filter in this TV surprisingly. The Faroudja's filter is the worst out of all of them. Its a patented 2D adaptive comb filter.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 08 May 2012, 05:35 
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jamisonia wrote:
possibly, but that doesn't mean that all their DVD recorders contain 3D comb filters. I currently have a Panasonic and Samsung DVD Recorder, and the Samsung clearly does better in the Snell and Wilcox Test. The Samsung has only very faint rainbows when moving, none when still. The Panasonic has much worse rainbows all the time.

The Samsung has something called 3D noise reduction, which I assume means 3D comb filter. Although turning 3D noise reduction on and off does nothing to change the Snell and Wilcox test.

Are all 3D comb filters created equal? Is it possible to have a Snell and Wilcox test where I see no rainbows?

What model number is your Samsung?

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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 16 May 2012, 22:10 
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My RCA DRC8335 died, and it has nothing to do with the C226 capacitor. I replaced it, along with a couple of other capacitors, and I only get, "Hello."

I bought a Pioneer DVR-320S for it's putative 3D y/c comb filter, but it is meh okay. Nothing special. Luckily, I only spent $15 on it. I prefer the DRC8335 by a mile.

Are there any suggestions of DVD/VCR or DVD recorder units that have a 3D y/c comb filter where ALL of the rainbows disappear on the Snell & Wilcox 2 test pattern when the orb stops moving?

TLK :cool:
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 16 May 2012, 22:57 
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lizardkingjr wrote:
My RCA DRC8335 died, and it has nothing to do with the C226 capacitor. I replaced it, along with a couple of other capacitors, and I only get, "Hello."

I bought a Pioneer DVR-320S for it's putative 3D y/c comb filter, but it is meh okay. Nothing special. Luckily, I only spent $15 on it. I prefer the DRC8335 by a mile.

Are there any suggestions of DVD/VCR or DVD recorder units that have a 3D y/c comb filter where ALL of the rainbows disappear on the Snell & Wilcox 2 test pattern when the orb stops moving?

TLK :cool:

I have a DRC8335 and a Panasonic DMR-E80H. I slightly prefer the panny, it only slightly outperforms the DRC (I had to switch back and forth over and over dozens of times to come to a decision), but it doesn't mess with the picture like the DRC does.

lizardkingjr wrote:
jamisonia wrote:
possibly, but that doesn't mean that all their DVD recorders contain 3D comb filters. I currently have a Panasonic and Samsung DVD Recorder, and the Samsung clearly does better in the Snell and Wilcox Test. The Samsung has only very faint rainbows when moving, none when still. The Panasonic has much worse rainbows all the time.

The Samsung has something called 3D noise reduction, which I assume means 3D comb filter. Although turning 3D noise reduction on and off does nothing to change the Snell and Wilcox test.

Are all 3D comb filters created equal? Is it possible to have a Snell and Wilcox test where I see no rainbows?

What model number is your Samsung?

TLK :cool:

Yeah, I want to know that too.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 17 May 2012, 04:36 
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naiaru wrote:
I have a DRC8335 and a Panasonic DMR-E80H. I slightly prefer the panny, it only slightly outperforms the DRC (I had to switch back and forth over and over dozens of times to come to a decision), but it doesn't mess with the picture like the DRC does.

How does the DRC8335 "mess with the picture"?

TLK :cool:
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 17 May 2012, 04:46 
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lizardkingjr wrote:
My RCA DRC8335 died, and it has nothing to do with the C226 capacitor. I replaced it, along with a couple of other capacitors, and I only get, "Hello."

I bought a Pioneer DVR-320S for it's putative 3D y/c comb filter, but it is meh okay. Nothing special. Luckily, I only spent $15 on it. I prefer the DRC8335 by a mile.

Are there any suggestions of DVD/VCR or DVD recorder units that have a 3D y/c comb filter where ALL of the rainbows disappear on the Snell & Wilcox 2 test pattern when the orb stops moving?

TLK :cool:

i bought the DVR-225 new to transfer home VHS tapes which is the same as the 320S without the firewire connection in front.
but i'm still using an old CRT, so what do you feel it's lacking? for when i upgrade my TV.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 17 May 2012, 05:47 
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rein-o wrote:
lizardkingjr wrote:
My RCA DRC8335 died, and it has nothing to do with the C226 capacitor. I replaced it, along with a couple of other capacitors, and I only get, "Hello."

I bought a Pioneer DVR-320S for it's putative 3D y/c comb filter, but it is meh okay. Nothing special. Luckily, I only spent $15 on it. I prefer the DRC8335 by a mile.

Are there any suggestions of DVD/VCR or DVD recorder units that have a 3D y/c comb filter where ALL of the rainbows disappear on the Snell & Wilcox 2 test pattern when the orb stops moving?

TLK :cool:

i bought the DVR-225 new to transfer home VHS tapes which is the same as the 320S without the firewire connection in front.
but i'm still using an old CRT, so what do you feel it's lacking? for when i upgrade my TV.

It still shows rainbows in the Snell & Wilcox 2 test pattern on the Video Essentials LD.

TLK :cool:
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 17 May 2012, 06:29 
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lizardkingjr wrote:
naiaru wrote:
I have a DRC8335 and a Panasonic DMR-E80H. I slightly prefer the panny, it only slightly outperforms the DRC (I had to switch back and forth over and over dozens of times to come to a decision), but it doesn't mess with the picture like the DRC does.

How does the DRC8335 "mess with the picture"?

TLK :cool:

It desaturates the colors, changes the contrast and darkens the image (at least). I was able to mostly correct it by just recalibrating, but the color bar pattern would always go out of balance if I tried to push the colors up as high as it was without the RCA. Elahrairrah pointed out the change, too.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 17 May 2012, 13:57 
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naiaru wrote:
lizardkingjr wrote:
naiaru wrote:
I have a DRC8335 and a Panasonic DMR-E80H. I slightly prefer the panny, it only slightly outperforms the DRC (I had to switch back and forth over and over dozens of times to come to a decision), but it doesn't mess with the picture like the DRC does.

How does the DRC8335 "mess with the picture"?

TLK :cool:

It desaturates the colors, changes the contrast and darkens the image (at least). I was able to mostly correct it by just recalibrating, but the color bar pattern would always go out of balance if I tried to push the colors up as high as it was without the RCA. Elahrairrah pointed out the change, too.

Do you want to sell yours to me? :)

TLK :cool:
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 17 May 2012, 17:40 
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lizardkingjr wrote:
naiaru wrote:
It desaturates the colors, changes the contrast and darkens the image (at least). I was able to mostly correct it by just recalibrating, but the color bar pattern would always go out of balance if I tried to push the colors up as high as it was without the RCA. Elahrairrah pointed out the change, too.

Do you want to sell yours to me? :)

TLK :cool:

sure, pm me
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 17 May 2012, 19:34 
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naiaru wrote:
lizardkingjr wrote:
naiaru wrote:
It desaturates the colors, changes the contrast and darkens the image (at least). I was able to mostly correct it by just recalibrating, but the color bar pattern would always go out of balance if I tried to push the colors up as high as it was without the RCA. Elahrairrah pointed out the change, too.

Do you want to sell yours to me? :)

TLK :cool:

sure, pm me

PM sent.

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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 18 May 2012, 00:47 
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Panasonic's first DVD-R recorder, the DMR-E20, has an excellent 3D comb filter and you can switch it to 2d if needed in the menu. On the Snell zone plate test, there are no rainbows when the zone plate stops moving, nor are there any rainbows in the top two diagonal blocks at any time. It's also full 1.5MHz bandwidth on the color channels so it gives full 120 lines color resolution on LaserDisc's. Many comb filters only have .5 MHz bandwidth which translates to only 40 lines of color resolution.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 18 May 2012, 01:00 
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disclord wrote:
Panasonic's first DVD-R recorder, the DMR-E20, has an excellent 3D comb filter and you can switch it to 2d if needed in the menu. On the Snell zone plate test, there are no rainbows when the zone plate stops moving, nor are there any rainbows in the top two diagonal blocks at any time. It's also full 1.5MHz bandwidth on the color channels so it gives full 120 lines color resolution on LaserDisc's. Many comb filters only have .5 MHz bandwidth which translates to only 40 lines of color resolution.

I would imagine that the whole DMR-E* line of recorders is the same, no?

TLK :cool:
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