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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2013, 15:23 
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Never used an HDMI capture card, so I can't comment on that. I can tell you that the ES25S has a good 3D comb filter and LDs through that via component to my CRT look very nice.

Never tried the HDMI out with LDs though.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 19 Sep 2013, 19:57 
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elahrairrah wrote:
Never used an HDMI capture card, so I can't comment on that. I can tell you that the ES25S has a good 3D comb filter and LDs through that via component to my CRT look very nice.

Never tried the HDMI out with LDs though.


Do you have an ability to try HDMI out to your TV?
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 19 Sep 2013, 20:38 
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Yes, but it'd be a pain in the a** since I'd have to disconnect it and an LD player from one TV and bring it both to another TV with HDMI inputs and hook them all up. Not something I'd do on a whim.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 21 Sep 2013, 06:03 
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laserdisc.ws wrote:
As it seem there is no DVD recorder or capture card that could use a 3D comb filter with a PAL signal, it should be the best method to capture a PAL laserdisc. I'm waiting for more info.


Not sure what gave you that idea, but the ATI 750 PCIe card has a 3D comb filter for both NTSC and PAL. In Europe, Asus sells it with a different model number.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 27 Sep 2013, 20:35 
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I am not sure if this is still in-topic, but I have 6 capture cards with motion adaptive 3d comb filters. Here are the screen shots of 4 of them. I just got ATI TV Wonder HD 750 PCI-e, but I haven't opened it. Also I haven't bothered with Canopus ADVC-300 since it's DV only.

The test is from DVD Digital Video Essential test motion pattern of Snell & Wilcox. I do have LD-S2 player, CLD 703 player and LaserDisc of Video Essentials. If anyone is interested, I can do similar tests.

1. Compro VideoMate Ultra capture card. This was the 1st TV Tuner ever made that incorporated motion adaptive 3d comb filter. It's Philips SAA713x based. But comb filter is by NEC D64083.

I think this card has amazing 3d comb filter. There are 3 modes: 2d + noise reduction, 2d + 3d and pure 3d. 2d + 3d is 3d but when it detects motion, it goes to 2d. But overall something is not right with horizontal bars (grey-black instead of white-black) and the fact that the image is a bit blurry. Anyone else noticed it? Other than this is the only card with 3d comb filter that has manual gain control which can be adjusted.

http://s23.postimg.org/ym1leypyz/Compro ... _Ultra.jpg

Attachment:
Compro VideoMate Ultra.JPG
Compro VideoMate Ultra.JPG [ 37.88 KiB | Viewed 18285 times ]


ATI TV Wonder 550 Pro PCI

http://s2.postimg.org/gndog636x/ATI_Theater_550_Pro.jpg

I don't like this card 'cause it has AGC problems. It blows up whites a little bit as well as black level.

ATI TV Wonder 650 HD USB

The AGC issue is insane on this card. However, for some reasons it didn't show any issues with DVE DVD. Maybe because I use drivers from VisionTek rather than from AMD? I don't know.

http://s17.postimg.org/a1qurocfz/ATI_HD_650_USB.jpg



ATI TV Wonder 750 HD USB

Contrary to the claims that this card doesn't have motion adaptive 3d comb filter, you are wrong. It does. However, it's very weak and settings are not adjustable. You can adjust them in the Filter settings, but they don't get save. This motion adaptive 3d comb filter eliminates dot crawl. It reduces rainbows, but doesn't fully eliminates them.

http://s24.postimg.org/7j147smrp/ATI_HD_750_USB.jpg



ATI TV Wonder 750 HD PCI-e - need to install it on my friend's computer and test it. My computer is old and doesn't have PCI-e slot.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 27 Sep 2013, 23:27 
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Those shots are from a down-res'd anamorphic section - you should either reconfigure your DVD player to think it's outputting to a wide screen TV, or see if there's a 4:3 section on the VE disk.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2013, 13:07 
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happycube wrote:
Those shots are from a down-res'd anamorphic section - you should either reconfigure your DVD player to think it's outputting to a wide screen TV, or see if there's a 4:3 section on the VE disk.


Thanks. I will redo them when I have time. For now I just installed ATI Wonder 750 HD PCIe card. Here is the test result from Digital Video Essentials DVD via Composite in. All proc amp settings are default. Captured into Huffyuv AVI and then encoded with TMPGEnc. File 750pcieDVEmotionComposite.m2v (about 152Mb) will be available for 2 weeks from the following download location: http://we.tl/8EGNiAas2G
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2013, 22:13 
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I'm very interested in what the best standalone 2D comb filter is.

Anyone have any equipment they'd be willing to review?

Right now I can say that the Extron YCS-100 is dramatically better than the Faroudja VP-100.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2013, 22:40 
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I've read that the Crystal Vision VPS-1 is better 2D comb filter than the Faroudja:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_5 ... ision.html

I think the reviewers in Widescreen Review used it in a few of their setups back in the day.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2013, 00:49 
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entech cvsi-1 (composite to component) and svsi-1 (composite to s-video) are also highly regarded. If I remember right it was regarded superior to Crystalio vision and Faroudja comb filters back in the day. It is a digital 2D design which can act as a composite, s-video, component switch(1 of each). I have one ever since I started dealing with 3D filters I have not touched it.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2013, 04:39 
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I also just got DMR-ES25. ATI 750 HD PCIe comb filter is significantly superior than that of DMR-ES25. I will go with ATI 750 HD PCI for my LD captures.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2013, 05:54 
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leonid wrote:
I also just got DMR-ES25. ATI 750 HD PCIe comb filter is significantly superior than that of DMR-ES25. I will go with ATI 750 HD PCI for my LD captures.

Good to hear. I might grab one of those too, since my current capture card isn't Win 7 64 bit compatible.

How is the color bar response though?
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2013, 14:21 
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leonid wrote:
I also just got DMR-ES25. ATI 750 HD PCIe comb filter is significantly superior than that of DMR-ES25. I will go with ATI 750 HD PCI for my LD captures.
Are you testing it with PAL or NTSC material? If NTSC, are you using the Snell & Wilcox zone plate from the Digital Video Essentials DVD?

If you're using the S&W zone plate from the DVE DVD, then make sure it's the 4:3 one.

You're using the wrong test pattern (the 16:9 one) in all of your samples above.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2013, 15:12 
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I'm using NTSC. I now use the correct Snell & Wilcox. As I previously said in my post, I encoded my test capture of Snell & Wilcox from Huffyuv into m2v and uploaded this m2v file into this location: http://we.tl/8EGNiAas2G

Please download it and see for yourself the test results. It will be available for 13 more days.

I also did a test capture using DMR-ES25 into ATI 600 USB. However, ATI 600 USB suffers from chroma resolution a bit. So at the bottom there are vertical cyan bar where it says 1.0 (on the left) and 1.5 on the right. They are completely gone due to ATI 600 USB lack of chroma hi res. Here's the test result from DMR-ES25: http://we.tl/x4mqxoMMbL
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 05 Oct 2013, 19:01 
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leonid wrote:
I also did a test capture using DMR-ES25 into ATI 600 USB. However, ATI 600 USB suffers from chroma resolution a bit. So at the bottom there are vertical cyan bar where it says 1.0 (on the left) and 1.5 on the right. They are completely gone due to ATI 600 USB lack of chroma hi res. Here's the test result from DMR-ES25: http://we.tl/x4mqxoMMbL
Besides the low chroma resolution due to the ATI 600 USB, the DMR-ES25 is doing a great job here. What don't you like about the result(s)?
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2013, 15:43 
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Look at the colored leftovers for Panasonic.

Attachment:
Panasonic DMR-ES25 Snell & Wilcox.JPG
Panasonic DMR-ES25 Snell & Wilcox.JPG [ 64.14 KiB | Viewed 18159 times ]


Last edited by leonid on 06 Oct 2013, 15:45, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2013, 15:44 
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And these are from ATI 750 PCIe. Almost clear.
Attachment:
ATI 750 PCIe Snell & Wilcox.JPG
ATI 750 PCIe Snell & Wilcox.JPG [ 66.31 KiB | Viewed 18159 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2013, 15:08 
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Unfortunately ATI 750 HD PCIe is not good for captures from LaserDiscs. First, Video Essentials Laser Disc triggered AGC problem. And second, 3d comb filter is simply not performing as well from LD as when the sources are DVDs.

With Video Essentials LaserDisc I tested ATI 550 Theater, ATI 750 PCIe, Panasonic DMR-ES25 and Compro VideoMate TV Ultra. The best comb filter by far is NEC D64083 which is in Compro VideoMate TV Ultra. But unfortunately the captured picture is blurry compared to the rest of the devices.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 16 Oct 2013, 02:00 
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happycube wrote:
HDMI capture from an ES25 sounds good, but I don't have any experience with them.


HDMI out from DMR-ES25 as pass-through works. I tested with the TV set. Whether it deinterlaces or outputs as is, I will find out after I will buy Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle for Thunderbolt.
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 Post subject: Re: DVD Recorders with 3D Comb Filters
PostPosted: 16 Oct 2013, 03:05 
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The manual is clear on which modes it outputs (480p and up).
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