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 Post subject: What are you using to upscale your LD Player on New 4K TV's
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2017, 08:51 
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What are you guys using to upscale the picture quality on Newer 4K TV's ?
ONKYO TX-NR626 was suggested by a few people , I was wondering if anyone
know's how the newer model Onkyo up-scaling looks ???
Onkyo TX-NR 777
Onkyo TX-NR757
Onkyo TX-RZ710
Thanks for any input ...
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 Post subject: Re: What are you using to upscale your LD Player on New 4K T
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2017, 00:42 
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Good evening / Morning paper,

Good question;
This is something that I am looking into Composite to HDMI.

A retailer of trust is making a few phone calls for me, and so hopefully I shall have an update in the next few weeks or longer.
Available funds are a little thin, but the retailer discussed and we agreed on myself placing a deposit when something reasonable and suitable is found.

I shall let you know,

Kind Regards to you

:thumbup: :wave:
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 Post subject: Re: What are you using to upscale your LD Player on New 4K T
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2017, 01:53 
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The good news is that if the upscaling isn’t good, it’s an Onkyo so it will probably lose a channel or have its fan die or something in like a year and a half and you can buy something better. :)
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 Post subject: Re: What are you using to upscale your LD Player on New 4K T
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2017, 09:09 
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signofzeta wrote:
The good news is that if the upscaling isn’t good, it’s an Onkyo so it will probably lose a channel or have its fan die or something in like a year and a half and you can buy something better. :)

I've never experienced a single issue with my Onkyo, and touch wood I won't have any problems in the near future either.
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 Post subject: Re: What are you using to upscale your LD Player on New 4K T
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2017, 04:01 
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My 626 was bought refurbed from A4L and has been wonderful for some time now. The onboard Marvell qdeo scaling is reputed to be very good and much better than older faroudja dcdi but since I primarily use my xbr960 I haven't tried it that much.
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 Post subject: Re: What are you using to upscale your LD Player on New 4K T
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2017, 18:01 
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The composite output of my Pioneer 704 looks FANTASTIC straight into my Sony 4K (55" 810C). The Video essentials moving zone plate test is ridiculously clear on all the problem areas. I was floored. The comb filter and upscaling on the Sony is amazing.

I've used a Panasonic DMR-ES10 with component out as well as a Sony RDR-GX255 with HDMI output and the bare composite into the Sony 4K wins head and shoulders above both. No comparison. Also, my Onkyo is supposed to upscale analog video to HDMI but that has never worked consistently and when it did the PQ was not great.

I was looking into getting one of those Leitch DPS units but after getting the new TV and seeing the results I had no desire to buy anything else to make LDs look better.

EDIT: Actually, I lied the composite is currently going through my Onkyo TX-SR705 and being output by the Onkyo as composite into the Sony 4K. However, I did initially test it straight in and it was superb (still is too!).


YMMV HTH FTW OMG!
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 Post subject: Re: What are you using to upscale your LD Player on New 4K T
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 00:10 
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sonicboom wrote:
The composite output of my Pioneer 704 looks FANTASTIC straight into my Sony 4K (55" 810C). The Video essentials moving zone plate test is ridiculously clear on all the problem areas. I was floored. The comb filter and upscaling on the Sony is amazing.
I've used a Panasonic DMR-ES10 with component out as well as a Sony RDR-GX255 with HDMI output and the bare composite into the Sony 4K wins head and shoulders above both. No comparison. Also, my Onkyo is supposed to upscale analog video to HDMI but that has never worked consistently and when it did the PQ was not great.
I was looking into getting one of those Leitch DPS units but after getting the new TV and seeing the results I had no desire to buy anything else to make LDs look better.
EDIT: Actually, I lied the composite is currently going through my Onkyo TX-SR705 and being output by the Onkyo as composite into the Sony 4K. However, I did initially test it straight in and it was superb (still is too!).
YMMV HTH FTW OMG!

I am experiencing the very same thing with my new 4K TV. Have utilized many processors such as DVDO, Extron, and Faroudja NRS along with a couple of DVD recorders and a plasma from Panasonic and none of the have produced anywhere near as clean of a S&W zone plate as my new TCL 55P605, see attachment.
Now for actual content the Faroudja Pictue Perfect Plus NR Series sending 720p has the best look for LD. The NRS also has more color bandwidth showing more color saturation in the color resolution bars at the bottom of the S&W zone plate test. Although I could easily live with composite straight to this TV, it’s that good.


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36EC9D18-FB63-4112-BDE4-9532E377877D.jpeg
36EC9D18-FB63-4112-BDE4-9532E377877D.jpeg [ 124.4 KiB | Viewed 727 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: What are you using to upscale your LD Player on New 4K T
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2017, 09:55 
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Disclaimer: I'm no A/V export and my TV is not professionally calibrated.

I have an Onkyo TX-SR707 (about 10 years old) and a 4K Sony 70" 850B (about three years old). My player is a Sony MDP-600.

I've been reading up lately on how to optimize the picture from LD and saw similar posts about using the composite vs y/c signal from the player and letting the comb filter on the newer hardware do the work.

To date, I've had my player hooked to the Onkyo via y/c and the Onkyo upscales to my TV via HDMI.

After reading this thread, I decided to try out the composite signal to see what happened. My Sony player has dual composite outs which allowed me to connect the player directly to the TV and to the Onkyo at the same time. I was also able to use the Twin Picture function on the TV to do a true side comparison of each input simultaneously.

I was using the CAV version of Beauty and the Beast for my test since there are some night scenes with good contrast.

I did some eyeball testing for about an hour and still have more to do, but I was shocked to find that the picture output from my Onkyo to TV was extremely dark when compared to the composite signal fed right in to the TV. A lot of detail was being lost due to the brightness/contrast levels through the Onkyo and I could not seem to adjust them to make them come anywhere close to the straight composite signal upscaled by the TV itself.

The TV was using the same picture setting for both inputs.

I will post a few example frames taken with my camera straight from the TV screen using the Twin Picture option on my set. Both images are displayed on my set at the same time -- both from the two separate composite outputs of my player.

The upscaled composite output from the Onkyo is on the left (the picture surrounded by the green box) and the straight composite signal direct to the TV is on the right in each shot.

First frame: notice the detail in the sky and the castle tower. The sky is virtually black on the image coming out of the Onkyo:

Attachment:
IMG_0710.JPG
IMG_0710.JPG [ 129.62 KiB | Viewed 673 times ]


Last edited by randyv on 26 Nov 2017, 10:41, edited 2 times in total. _________________
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 Post subject: Re: What are you using to upscale your LD Player on New 4K T
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2017, 09:59 
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Frame two: notice the loss of detail on the hat in the Onkyo frame.

Attachment:
IMG_0709.JPG
IMG_0709.JPG [ 129.72 KiB | Viewed 672 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: What are you using to upscale your LD Player on New 4K T
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2017, 10:02 
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Frame Three: Notice the detail on the door from the straight composite signal on the right and the lack of color between the black cape and the brown shirt Maurice is wearing on the Onkyo frame.

Attachment:
IMG_0711.JPG
IMG_0711.JPG [ 144.92 KiB | Viewed 672 times ]


Last edited by randyv on 26 Nov 2017, 10:18, edited 1 time in total. _________________
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 Post subject: Re: What are you using to upscale your LD Player on New 4K T
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2017, 10:04 
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Frame Four: Look at the detail in the ceiling of the great hall from the composite signal processed by the TV.

Attachment:
IMG_0712.JPG
IMG_0712.JPG [ 141.94 KiB | Viewed 671 times ]


Last edited by randyv on 26 Nov 2017, 10:18, edited 1 time in total. _________________
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 Post subject: Re: What are you using to upscale your LD Player on New 4K T
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2017, 10:14 
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And finally, look at the detail on the door again as Maurice enters the castle. The door is virtually black on the frame output by the Onkyo.

Attachment:
IMG_0713.JPG
IMG_0713.JPG [ 148.23 KiB | Viewed 671 times ]


My Sony TV has multiple different picture settings, including Dot Reduction. I tried a live action movie and the Dot Reduction setting cleaned up the picture quite a bit. I did not have a lot of time to spend dialing this in tonight but based on what I have seen so far, I plan to bypass the video processing on the Onkyo and feed the composite signal from the player straight in to the TV and let the TV do filtering work.

I was honeslty surprised (and a bit disappointed, frankly) at how bad the picture coming out of the Onkyo was. It was my belief the SR707 had a very good 3D filter. I guess that may have been true back in 2008 when I bought it, but clearly the filter in the XBR 850B is far superior.

YMMV with other receivers or sets.
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 Post subject: Re: What are you using to upscale your LD Player on New 4K T
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2017, 21:09 
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It’s encouraging to see that they still fit SD inputs to anything, them being better than ever before is great news.

I’m also glad Sony is still in business and can still make competitive TVs.
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 Post subject: Re: What are you using to upscale your LD Player on New 4K T
PostPosted: 14 Dec 2017, 01:06 
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I am very pleased with my setup

Cld-d925 - kramer FC10D - dvdo iscan HD+ - Marantz sr-7007 (passtrough) - Panasonic TX58DX780E 4K tv ( NO remastering activated on the tv )

The Iscan is set to 720P :thumbup:

Higher resolution is not pleasing to my eye

I never really changed the system besides adding the Kramer comb filter that does a better job then the dvdo IMHO
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 Post subject: Re: What are you using to upscale your LD Player on New 4K T
PostPosted: 14 Dec 2017, 02:05 
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 Post subject: Re: What are you using to upscale your LD Player on New 4K T
PostPosted: 14 Dec 2017, 02:40 
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substance wrote:
Lumagen Radiance 2144 -> Algolith Mosquito HDMI -> Lumagen Radiance Pro 4449


Hello substance!

Just out of curiosity, since the R2144 can upscale to 4K natively, are you outputting 1K to Algolith, then 1K to R4449 to upscale to 4K?

Julien
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 Post subject: Re: What are you using to upscale your LD Player on New 4K T
PostPosted: 14 Dec 2017, 03:08 
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admin wrote:
substance wrote:
Lumagen Radiance 2144 -> Algolith Mosquito HDMI -> Lumagen Radiance Pro 4449


Hello substance!

Just out of curiosity, since the R2144 can upscale to 4K natively, are you outputting 1K to Algolith, then 1K to R4449 to upscale to 4K?

Julien


Hey Admin!


A little background first. The mosquito HDMI can process up to 1080p24 not including 1080p60. The hdmi chipset has a known bug which crushes blacker than black for rgb and 4:4:4. So it only likes 4:2:2. This is Ok because Lumagen processors work best in 4:2:2. The max resolution limitation on the mosquito eliminates 1080p60 output and higher from the R2144. I sometimes like to keep the fps at 60 and not do 60->24. In this case, I can do 480p60 and 720p60 which are legal with the mosquito.

A little deeper info. Lumagen internally does a calculation and converts rec.601(sd) color space to rec.709(hd) colorspace for the calibration pipeline. Jim recommends outputting at hd resolutions rather than 480p60 to keep the colorspace also in rec.709 hd. If you chose to output at 480p60 then lumagen converts back to rec.601 with the inverse of the previous calculation. I think there is no penalty in this and i am ok with it.

Back to the mosquito. It works best with the progressive material and nothing really beats it in sd noise reduction. I prefer to output 480p60 into the mosquito and r4449 upscales to 4k60 4:2:2 18ghz at the end. On very clean discs I use 1080p24 into the mosquito in bypass mode.

This above setup is as good as ld picture can get.
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 Post subject: Re: What are you using to upscale your LD Player on New 4K T
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2017, 00:22 
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 Post subject: Re: What are you using to upscale your LD Player on New 4K T
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2017, 00:45 
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I got a new Bravia, X720E. I use CRTs for LD normally but I got this for XMas and it’s going in the (currently nonexistent) basement system so I’ll hook a spare player to it and report back my findings. I have a good feeling about this one. Few Wegas or Bravias have ever disappointed me.
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