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Posted: 16 Apr 2018, 21:22 

Regarding newer 4k TVs, specifically Sony brand...

I used this site as a starting point for my settings: https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x810c

They have extensive information and tests for calibrating your TV/monitor. Where a lot of the info you see online is questionable I trust these guys due to the level of detail and extremes they go to with product testing.

Anyway, I've been tweaking settings back and forth for a while on this TV and feel like I've found the ideal settings for LD on this display (Sony XBR55X810C). This TV has memory for each input so you can set the Composite input correctly without affecting other inputs.

Aside from the actual picture settings which I made with Video Essentials, there were a few settings that I had not initially utilized until recently. Those settings being the "Motion Flow", "Cine Motion", and any kind of Noise Reduction.

Re-visiting the site linked above I was drawn to the section on 24p playback and motion interpolation. I had avoided these settings previously because I don't like the soap opera effect (SOE) and don't want to be adding fake frames that don't exist.

Then, after reading the individual sections by clicking on the "learn more" links I realized what this was; an inverse telecine circuit! As you can see in the review, my TV handles 24p over 60i. It is a 120Hz display so it will deal with anything you throw at it.

Basically, by setting "Motion Flow" to "True Cinema" and the "Cine Motion" to "High" you are detecting 24p content that has been telecine-ed to 60i, it reconstructs the original 24 frames and then uses the 120hz refresh to do a 5:5 conversion also preserving the original 24 FPS of the film. This has made a significant improvement in clarity and motion for me.

Sony has used these terms in previous models and they have not always had the same effect. They have, in the past, been synonymous with the SOE. Depending on your model the above info may not be accurate. I can tell you that on my display I'm not seeing the SOE and watching a LD feels normal.

In addition to that, which is huge, there are built-in noise reduction circuits for "Random Noise" and "Digital Noise". I've set "Digital Noise" to "High" and that has greatly improved titles that aren't as clean as some of the latter releases. Cleans them up really nice without artifacts. I don't notice any improvement with the built-in VNR on the CLD-D704 but I think that only applies to S-Video output anyway, which this TV does not have. If I toggle it on/off it doesn't seem to negatively affect a title that already looks decent so I leave it on for now (I'm watching the Connery Collection, Goldfinger and it looks great zoomed in).

Blacks are like midnight.
Colors and resolution are insane.
Motion is accurate.
SW zone plate is clear when still.
Zoom works great.

My only complaint is that there is overscan. I can't see the edge of the SW test plate in any direction. Feels punched in. Has nothing to do with the bezel (at least on the L/R sides). It isn't terrible but it ain't right either :(

I hope that has been informative and maybe even helpful.

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Posted: 28 May 2019, 18:02 

Welcome to the Sony 4K club ;)

I'm glad people are realizing that modern TVs can present a nice image for LD out of the box. It may even rival magic boxes costing thousands of dollars. Maybe.

The fact that you may need a breakout cable moving forward is not ideal but as long as it works - it works. Glad you figured it out and thanks for sharing your experience.

With regard to AR settings on a Sony, as mentioned, you only really need "Normal" (4:3) and "Zoom" (1.78:1 Letterbox = Full Screen). A 2.35 movie would be correct on the Zoom setting. 1.66 movies are hard to get right however. I'll usually use the Normal 4:3 setting and know the top and bottom are slightly cropped. If you need to matte out burned in subtitles (Japanese movies) then you are SOL on that front.

Scaling is fine nothing to mention, like ringing.

I highly recommend looking up your TV or one you're looking to buy and seeing if it has the features you want/need at this website: https://www.rtings.com/

They do pretty deep testing and have good explanations of their findings and methods. Of note were the motion settings and Color Temperature settings.

Motion Settings for Sony's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuEZIJDEQyo

According to these guys the Sony's are able to do inverse telecine on 60i signals then they do a 5:5 of the 24p for the 120Hz panel so you get smooth accurate motion. Not sure how they do on animation with odd cadences but the Looney Tunes stuff looks good to me. Comb filtering is about as good as it gets IMO. Colors are nice but don't "pop" as much as on my Faroudja.

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 Post subject: Re: Capturing PCM from LD
Posted: 12 Aug 2019, 16:03 

M-Audio Transit will work. USB2 connection. Its old and probably cheap on Ebay. There is a new Pro version that will require an adapter since the optical input is on a mini connection. The new one probably has better drivers than the old version. Here is a link to the original model for reference. No affiliation. I have the old one and confirm it works as advertised.

https://www.amazon.com/M-AUDIO-Transit-Resolution-Mobile-Upgrade/dp/B0000CDHP5

Any MOTU interface with Toslink, like the Traveler, will work great also but is more expensive. I personally use a Traveler mk 1 myself and just did this the other day with come concert LDs. I've found these cheap locally on Craigslist. This will require a firewire connection but their newer products also have USB connectivity.

https://motu.com/products/motuaudio/traveler-old/

Ideally when you do the capture you should set the clock source to Optical/SPDIF or External so that the LD player is the sync master. This should help reduce jitter or noise. Setting should be 44.1KHz, 16 bit, Stereo.

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 Post subject: Re: Capturing PCM from LD
Posted: 17 Aug 2019, 18:19 

I'm an audio engineer by trade. Its my main source of income. I've been doing this for 20 years now. Never have I ever heard of the insanity of something coming in on Optical S/PDIF and getting D/A converted internally except to exit from an analog output which is not the case here. That sounds like suspect hardware/software if that is really happening. How can a piece of software in a computer (binary - digital) convert a digital signal to analog then digital again and why on Earth would that be plausible ever? All analog audio must be A/D converted to use in a computer but digital audio stays digital until you play it out of an analog output.

Actually, Audacity being free and Windows being Windows this all makes sense :)

So again, keep this simple because it really is. LD Optical output>USB Optical device Input>USB cable>Host computer USB input>Audio Software. Set the software for 44.1KHz, 16 Bit, Stereo WAV file. That is the setting and there is no need to try anything else in this scenario. If the software has a selection for input source, choose the one for the (USB) capture device. If there is a selection for (word) clock source choose external or optical or USB, whatever they call the source input (the USB box). Do a 1 minute test. Depending on the software and your hardware you may not be able to monitor the digital audio in real time. When the recording is finished be sure to reset the (word) clock source to internal or you may run into sync issues when you playback.

The main issue, I suspect, is Windows and/or Audacity coupled with the lack of experience. Don't get discouraged - you'll figure it out eventually.


Unfortunately it's not that simple if one desires bit-perfect captures, since the audio could get internally converted to analog and then back to digital by the PC/input device, or otherwise altered so that it's no longer an exact digital copy.

The first posts on these threads on FanRes would probably be good starting points for making sure that you're recording the exact PCM data:
https://forum.fanres.com/thread-2742.html
https://forum.fanres.com/thread-2686.html


Knowing the hardware I have personally I know for sure my sampling rate is correct and also that that there is no D/A/D going on (I can’t even...that makes no sense to me).

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 Post subject: Re: Capturing PCM from LD
Posted: 25 Aug 2019, 16:50 

Ok, that is something that actually makes sense why it isn't working then. Strange that something wouldn't accept the consumer standard sample rate of 44.1KHz. Anyway, move on. That M-Audio box is actually perfect for your application. Its cheap and has very humble requirements. It even will pass through AC3/DTS. I'd read up online about using it with whatever OS you're on. It may have some buggy limitation in Windows.

As for clock sync, read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_clock So basically think of digital as a stream of info running at a certain speed (44,100 cycles per second in this case) controlled by a clock. When two different systems need to work together they need to decide who is the master clock signal. Usually it should be the source if you don't have a separate master clock source like many studios have. If you set the receiving end to be the master there is a chance you may have jitter or drop outs due to a clocking mismatch.

Now look at the setting/preferences in Audacity or whatever DAW you're using. I use a MOTU product that has a software panel that controls all that stuff. I just choose the clock source from a drop down menu. Your system will have be different so just look around.

In PCM capturing news someone responded to my post on Head Fi and mentioned this:

"Maybe the CM6206 can only handle 48k sample rates on S/PDIF? The data sheet says "S/PDIF I/O 48 KHz sampling rate" a couple of places. Laserdisc audio (including DTS) is at 44.1."

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/capturing-pcm-from-laserdisc.912747/#post-15137016

Interesting! So I might try the M-Audio transit when I can afford it.

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 Post subject: Re: Capturing PCM from LD
Posted: 13 Sep 2019, 05:02 

forper wrote:
Crying with happiness right now.

..and thank you Sonicboom for the Transit recommendation. I will conduct many PCM transfers now I have the capability! :lol: 8-)

Okay , okay if you guys died I would be sad for a bit


Right on! Glad you got it to work finally. Enjoy the fruit of your labor dude.
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