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 Post subject: Re: Datasheet PM4007A
Posted: 15 May 2018, 05:39 

Here are more images of the Sample Rate Systems, AC3-RF Demodulator board.....

Full Schematics (hope it's sharp enough to read, if not please let me know)
https://vgy.me/1QvLIK.jpg

Board Layout
https://vgy.me/60ILZw.jpg

The actual board inside my Pioneer, CLD-D701
https://vgy.me/hzhLjg.jpg

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Posted: 20 May 2018, 22:33 

All,

I started working on a scratch built AC3-RF output board 10 years ago but never got anywhere with it when I couldn't get it to work. So a couple of months ago, I got the itch to finally get it done and found that I had my mute control transistor wired up incorrectly. :problem:

So here are some images of the board and the player that I used for the experiment (a Pioneer, CLD-2090 clone in case anyone was wondering ;) ).


Schematic that I used to create the board
https://vgy.me/aR6JaE.gif

Top view of the board
https://vgy.me/eWmnBg.jpg

Bottom view of the board
https://vgy.me/Uk5QGl.jpg

Size comparison of the scratch built board and a BDE custom made board w/ surface mount components
https://vgy.me/dMTWFy.jpg

Solder points in the player for the board (+5V = red, -5V = blue, GND = green, Mute = yellow, AFM = coax wire)
https://vgy.me/9SCXvP.jpg

The board installed w/ all wires connected
https://vgy.me/c6mOkI.jpg

Wide view showing the board and RCA jack
https://vgy.me/jU1AW8.jpg

RCA jack internal view
https://vgy.me/gSuDo7.jpg

RCA jack external view
https://vgy.me/DNMOgj.jpg

The player playing an AC3 disc w/ Sony SDP-E800 showing a lock ("discrete" indicator lighted)
https://vgy.me/Rrb5sI.jpg


So now that I have successfully made this board a reality, now it's time to make more of them so I can get the rest of my players up to the AC-3 RF spec. My next version will be on a board half the size (this one was bigger than it had to be but I was learning along the way so I needed space to figure it out).

Hope everyone enjoyed the images. It's quite exciting that I can now make these boards from scratch since all my past player retrofits were always from DIY kits that unfortunately are no longer available to purchase.

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Posted: 21 May 2018, 05:46 

It looks like my recently acquired SDP-E800 has a minor display issue as well. 8-)

In my situation, I get the following problem after it has been on for at least 30 to 45 minutes....

https://vgy.me/QeDkkw.jpg

The "i" disappears when on Digital 2 and 3 inputs as well as the "a" on the Analog input (no issues on the Digital 1 since that segment is blank due to the way the input information is displayed). Once the unit cools down again, the segment returns as normal.

Anyway, I figure it's probably a cold solder joint (had a similar issue with my Pioneer, CLD-3030 and soldering fixed the display) so I will be opening it up soon and soldering all the connectors in that region of the display. I think this happens a lot on this model since it does heat up (as everyone has mentioned) quite a bit. I'll report back later on how this repair goes and post pics as necessary.

Dave

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Posted: 28 May 2018, 08:20 

Ok...

As I mentioned in my previous post, here is the repair that I did on my SDP-E800's minor display issue (the missing "i" and "a" digit depending on the input selected). This repair will also fix any dimming issues as well (will have to solder more pins to the left and right of the one's I highlighted in the first picture).


After you remove the five screws holding the cover of unit in place, take a quick look @ the back of the display board and you will notice the row of pins I highlighted here....

https://vgy.me/fEGBey.jpg

Although every pin is not going to have weak joints, it's still a good idea to resolder all of them since one can make the case that if one already got weak the others stand a chance of going bad later as well.

Now, in order to make this fix easy, it's better to remove the display board from the facade so you can lie it down on a table for a more convenient angle to solder.

So the next step is as follows.....

https://vgy.me/LHmNIH.jpg

https://vgy.me/aFR40G.jpg

https://vgy.me/mMqMPP.jpg

Now with the board removed, you can see how the these pins connect to the display unit.

https://vgy.me/tHmsIA.jpg

Now it's time to solder and all you need to do is heat up each point and add a very tiny bit of solder (watch out and don't accidentally bridge one pin to another as you will damage the display when it gets powered back on; might want to ask someone with experience to help if need be).

https://vgy.me/sItSZ1.jpg

After getting all the pins soldered, it's a good idea to take a voltmeter, place it in "continuity mode" (it will beep on many voltmeters when the points are bridged by accident), and go down the entire row of pins w/ the probes touching the next adjacent pin. If these pins you test never set off a beep on the voltmeter, you're good to go with putting the unit back together.

https://vgy.me/OWkO4B.jpg

I ran my unit for over two hours after I was done and it's was perfect. No more disappearing digits. :thumbup:

Lastly... as a disclaimer, I don't hold any responsibility for damage to your unit if you try this on your own. It's still a risk if you don't have any experience w/ soldering irons and voltmeters so I do emphasize getting a friend to help who has some basic electronics knowledge.

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Posted: 02 Jul 2018, 03:52 

Not sure about your particular Sony AV Receiver but on some older Sony AV Receivers one has to activate “Auto Format Decode (AFD)” to force any two channel audio source to activate Dolby Pro-Logic. Otherwise, the receiver only plays back two channel stereo (center and surrounds stay silent). Quite possibly, the “2ch/Multi” switch on your receiver is the same as AFD.

Also, on my Sony, SDP-EP9ES, surround processor it has a very similar functionality as AFD but it’s called “Mode” instead. In addition, Pressing the “Dolby Surround” button on the front panel will only push “surround” if the source is Dolby Digital 4.0 or 5.1 and “stereo” if the signal is PCM. I found this kind of odd when I first used this unit so it's understandable one can be get confused on how surround is activated on some AV gear.

But as signofzeta says, Pro-Logic surround will not sound as aggressive as a discrete 5.1 audio mix but overall sound quality on LD will be very good since two channel PCM sounds more robust due to lack of compression vs. lossy Dolby Digital.

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Posted: 14 Jul 2018, 04:26 

So I wasn't sure if this posting should have been in the "LD Player" section or this "AC3RF Demodulators" section as the topic I'm writing about is a bit of a hybrid. In the end, I decided it really was more about Demodulators so here we go.


What I have in the following pics is one of my home theaters that utilizes dual players that are both capable of outputting Dolby Digital, DTS, PCM and analog audio. I recently made a change to this set-up by adding a Denon, AVD-2000 to act as a switch box for the two players and then having the signal carry over to a Denon, AVR-3805 (via S/PDIF optical).


So here are the two players. One player has an AC3-RF out mod and the other has the same mod but with an internal AC3-RF Demodulator.
https://vgy.me/BnhOkp.jpg


Next up is the back panel of both players showing two sets of digital outputs from each player so I can send Dolby Digital (on the modded outputs) and PCM/DTS (on the factory S/PDIF outputs).
https://vgy.me/GOkUko.jpg


Now we see the back panel of the Denon, AVD-2000 showing what connections I have coming into it from the LD players (Player 1 connected to "AC3-RF" and “Optical 1" while Player 2 is connected to "Coaxial 2" and “Optical 2"). Also, I do have the S/PDIF out of the AVD-2000 actually going to a S/PDIF splitter (the square box in the pic) to create a dual S/PDIF out so I can run two sets of digital outputs to the AV Receiver to sync it with the two players video and analog audio outputs.
https://vgy.me/RxS9f7.jpg


Finally, a front image showing the basic signal flow of all the "digital" connections (the LD players video and analog audio connections are going directly to the AV Receiver).
https://vgy.me/wbdHLd.jpg


So the beauty of this system is that I literally have two AC3-RF Demodulators to pull off this dual player set-up (one demodulator in player 2 and another in the AVD-2000 processor). Also, since I am using the AVD-2000 as more of a switcher, it solves the issue of assigning multiple digital inputs on the Denon AV Receiver since as we know it's a pain that we can't assign more than one digital input for every video/analog audio input.

Now I just sit back, pop in two discs at a time like a Pioneer LD-W1 (keeping one player off at a time), and enjoy a movie in any sound format I want with the utmost ease in switching inputs. :thumbup:

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Posted: 14 Jul 2018, 21:42 

Just released today.... :)



Finally a very well detailed video that let's us see a Muse LD player in action.

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 Post subject: Re: TA-F808ES Pain
Posted: 19 Jul 2018, 07:03 

Just to throw my two cents in.....

This sounds like it could also simply be a cold solder joint that is flexing as the unit heats up and cools down. I would look at the areas where a lot of heat is generated like the mosfets that signofzeta mentioned as well as transistors w/ large heat sinks.

Once you find these cold joints (it simply is a separation of soldered parts to the board so you will usually see micro cracks), then you just need to re-heat them again w/ a soldering iron to get them solid again.

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Posted: 08 Aug 2018, 17:50 

Another possible issue besides what I brought (bad caps) could even be aged glue on the boards. I have a Mitsubishi VCR that exhibited odd scan line drops when playing tapes (but its blue screen and tuner looked fine) that wasn't caused by bad tapes. The shop I worked @ looked it over and they found that some of the issues (not all) was the aged glue starting to breakdown and causing some odd interference.

This may or may not be the issue with your LD player but it be worth a look (especially in the video section of the player).

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Posted: 04 Sep 2018, 07:03 

Sounds like another stretched belt issue (pretty typical with all LD players when they reach this age) but hard to say since it appears that the E-87 error appears to be related to the laser pick-up not detecting the disc.

You might want to open up the player and see if there is a belt related to moving the laser pick-up back and forth (not a loading belt that moves the tray).

As for a player with a digital output and AC3-RF out, there are plenty of options. Probably the cheapest you could find would be a Pioneer CLD-D504 or equivalent clone (CLD-D604 or equivalent if you want digital field memory for CLV special effects). Just search on ebay and see what they are going for (I'm sure they are less than what you want to spend).


<<<<< Correction. I forgot the that the CLD-D504 does not have a standard digital output so the choice would have to be a CLD-D604 that has both. My apoligies. >>>>

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Posted: 03 Oct 2018, 05:41 


Why so snide and sarcastic?? You know I got into the LaserDisc thing very recently. I just found this board and was excited to find other people who are as enthused about it as I am. If this is the kind of attitude going to be thrown at somebody who's just getting started perhaps this isn't the place for me. Sorry if I offended anyone.

You didn't offend anyone. :)

Maybe some of us are just old farts and get irritated at times because many of us have been w/ the format from day one and we hear a lot of the same questions over and over again (my goodness, how many times have I wrote about stretched loading belts now :crazy: ).

Anyway, my simple advice as a newbie; don't buy "pan & scan" titles and collect titles that are of the later releases (picture quality is usually better and many titles have Dolby AC3 or DTS encoding). Also, I personally love getting rare box sets of a movie or TV show if the packaging is well executed.

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Posted: 02 Nov 2018, 04:25 

Thanks for stepping in and providing your knowledge on this matter.

I learn something new every time you post.

Thanks :thumbup:

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Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 17:57 

Sounds pretty likely it's alignment. The blue mark should line-up with another mark on an adjacent gear but I have no idea how the alignment works. Here is the service manual for the CLD-1400 (same chassis) that might help.

http://manuals.lddb.com/LD_Players/Pioneer/CLD/CLD-1400/CLD-1400_EN-FR-ES-Service-Manual_Scan.pdf

Maybe Kurtis can also provide input on it as well.

Once you get it fixed (I'm sure you will), try not to mess with gearing in the future especially when it comes to belt replacement. You should be able to access the loading belt by ejecting the tray and with the cover off.

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Posted: 23 Nov 2018, 06:09 

After doing some research, it appears you are correct that the belt is the VEB-1184 for the CLD-950. I thought it could have been different since this model is a single side player.

Appears one can get one at this place....

http://www.pacparts.com/model.cfm?mfg=PIONEER&model_id=CLDS303&action=list_part&mode=auto&back=0

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Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 04:15 

I just did some research and found what appears to be the part that keeps going bad.....

https://vgy.me/0q7lnN.png

The part number is VXA1365 and called a "slide latch assembly". Based on the image above, this appears to be a generic door latch that can be found on a lot of older TV's that had the push in latch for doors that hid control buttons (my old Mitsubishi, CS-2655R, CRT had this style switch). I am not sure if they are all of the same size but if they are you would probably just need to make a simple swap to get your door working again.

I can't seem to find any resource on the web to purchase these switches but I'm sure if you visit a TV repair shop that has a lot of broken TV's laying around you could salvage a switch from it. Also, I have seen in the many years of selling AV gear that this particular latch design always seems to fail over time (although the one on my Mits TV was good to the end) so it would be a good idea to pick up a number of spares to ensure you can keep fixing it (or just fix the door and limit how many times you open it).



Update >>>>>

Well, I found something that works just like the VXA1365 but I'm not sure if the size is correct.

https://kpcomponents.co/products/cd-player-door-latch
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Door-Latch-Door-Lock-Door-Trap-for-INSIGNIA-NS-83112-GPX-BOOM-BOX-CD-PLAYER-/221889945368

You could contact the sellers to see about getting dimensions but you'll still have to open up the 3080 to measure the one in there to see if it's a match.

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Posted: 29 Dec 2018, 05:04 

takeshi666 wrote:
He's not concerned about the actual replacing of the belt, it's acquiring the new belt to replace it with.


That wasn't very clear to me even after re-reading the post; still sounds like a question about "how" to replace the belt.

But oh well... :roll:

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Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 03:42 

Ok.... Looks like I wasn't very clear on some aspects of changing the belt on an Alpha Turn based LD player. Here are some pics that will hopefully enlighten from my Pioneer, CLD-D701....

Image of the player w/ top off and the tray ejected
https://vgy.me/3aLBWs.jpg

Now a picture of the clamper assembly removed as this part will get in the way to reaching the loading belt. You will just need to remove four screws to separate it from the player
https://vgy.me/hP4QFv.jpg

Now it's easy to reach the belt as circled in red
https://vgy.me/q9v2fL.jpg

As you re-install the clamper assembly after belt replacement, make sure the following peg goes back into the plastic slider
https://vgy.me/TH5v6J.jpg

Hope this helps.

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Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 04:41 

So finally I have an update on my next scratch built AC3-RF output board....



Top view w/ where the solder points are going to be
https://vgy.me/rzwjAW.jpg

Bottom view
https://vgy.me/L2Pkgu.jpg

Size comparison w/ the BDE version
https://vgy.me/TviTxA.jpg

The new board is half the size of the one I made in the first post (as I said I would do). I built this one in about three hours a few nights ago but it does need to be tested still. I will eventually have it installed in a Pioneer, CLD-M90 along with a optical + coaxial digital output mod. Stay tuned for a new thread when the time comes. :D

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 Post subject: Re: CLD-2090
Posted: 26 Jan 2019, 08:40 

The CLD-2090 is part of the same model year as the CLD-3090. The difference is that the 2090 does not have a digital field memory circuit as the 3090 and thus can't do any trick play effects on CLV discs.

The other models for that model year are the CLD-M90 (first five disc CD changer / LD player combo), CLD-990, and CLD-1090.


It doesn't appear to be the NTSC version of the CLD-2950.

That is for sure since the 2090/3090 are Alpha Turn units and the 2950 is a Gamma Turn unit that does appear to be the equivalent of a D503.


The player's output is quite solid, comparing it to the CLD-79 it has slightly more noise, and the black levels aren't quite as good, but it isn't a bad player.

I have the ProScan, PSLD43 which is a 2090 clone. I can't really judge the picture to other players since it's hard to do that w/ today's digital displays and I don't have all my players in one location to do an A / B comparison. However, it's looked upon as an average player for the most part but I do like it for its build quality (much more robust than the later Epsilon and Gamm Turn units).

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Posted: 06 Feb 2019, 09:12 

Regardless what people say about issues with CLV Smear on the 703 & 704, still think these players are great performers and the cosmetic appearance of them were right on target (never was a big fan of the “arch look” on the 701 & 702).

Hope you have fun with your 703 and may it give you years of enjoyment since it literally is a 25 year old baby. :)

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 Post subject: Re: PROSCAN PSLD45
Posted: 15 Feb 2019, 04:16 

Thank you so much for the info. LDFAN! Would the proscan remote with shuttle knob describe the remote you are recommending?

I'm not really recommending any remote except to get the one that was really designed for the player. As it turns out, the PSLD45 remote utilizes the same button layout for the Pioneer, CLD-D504 remote but like I said previously it still may not work due to different IR codes that RCA has been known to do.

Here is the link for a PSLD45 that was sold @ auction awhile back that has the pic of the remote...

https://www.ebth.com/items/3645293-proscan-laser-disc-and-cd-player-with-laser-discs



One JUST sold on Ebay for $12. I will keep an eye out for another.

Yup... that's all you can do. Just be patient since it may be awhile before one comes available but they will pop up every so often.


Also, i have this remote from the early 2000's. I've read online this may control the proscan. I've not checked the book of codes yet, but I will this evening.

Most universal remotes made the same time that LD players were around should have most or all of the existing codes from that time period (especially if the universal unit is made by RCA, they should have the code you want for a ProScan). It may not control all the functions but at least it should have the basic transport codes. Also, many of today's high end universal remotes (e.g.: Logitec) have extensive databases of IR codes that should have the ProScan LD on file.

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 Post subject: Re: CLD-3030 Dolby AC3 Mod
Posted: 18 Feb 2019, 01:45 

Here are all the points you need for the CLD-3030 (CLD-99S)...


Wide view from bottom
https://vgy.me/UBh4a6.jpg


Close up view of the AFM and Mute point
https://vgy.me/cTDxcr.jpg


The points for +5vdc (red), -5vdc (blue), and GND (black) can be found anywhere and clearly labeled so you don't have to use the points I chose on my player.

Now you just need to build an AC3-RF board for the player.

Hope this helps. :)

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Posted: 02 Apr 2019, 17:28 

That's why I would never buy a standalone AC3-RF Demodulator as people think that is the "only" way to get the coding out of the player.

I would recommend searching out these three models on eBay:

Sony, SDP-EP9ES
Sony, SDP-E800
Denon, AVD-2000

These are all Surround Processors with AC-3RF Demodulators built in but they also have an S/PDIF optical output that will convert the signal and send it over to your AV Receiver (in other words, you just use these processors as a digital switcher).

Every so often you'll see these units sell for a lot less than a standalone AC3-RF Demodulator. You'll just have to be patient.

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 Post subject: Re: CLD-M450 Disassembly
Posted: 16 Apr 2019, 03:54 

I still think you have a bad belt.

I know from experience w/ my M90 that the belts on the changers are even more critical in that they need to be really tight since this is probably the heaviest tray that Pioneer made for any of their players and thus needs more lifting torque.

if you own an Alpha Turn model from around the same time period that uses the PEB-1013 belt, you can use the belt from that player to test it on your M450 to see if it works better.

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 Post subject: Re: LD-V4400
Posted: 20 Apr 2019, 08:50 

It obviously starts w/ needing points for the player to do either of the mods.


For AC3-RF, I assume the 4400 is very similar to the 4300 (don't hold me to it; just guessing since they look very similar) of which we have the service manual available here....

http://manuals.lddb.com/LD_Players/Pioneer/LD/LD-V4300D/

If you go to page 16 of the pdf, it appears to show where many of the points for the mod are located (e.g.: RF, +5V, -5V, and GND are located on connector CN1 and Mute appears to be on connector CN16 or CN18). Not sure if this 4400 is a Mute Active High (MAH) or Mute Active Low (MAL) player since it appears to be a PAL capable machine which are usually MAL (this makes a difference since a mod board needs to be built for either design).

Once you know that information, then you need to build the AC3-RF board. This is the version I made for my Pro-Scan player...

https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=7827

This board is made specifically for an MAH player.


Moving on to the S/PDIF output, you can buy a kit from ebay to make this job easier but you'll still need to get the information on where the digital output resides in the player. Once again, going back to the service manual, page 24 of the manual shows the AudB board and the digital output appears to be located on IC-306, pin 60 (DOUT). You'll also need to verify if pin 59 (MD2) is pushing 5VDC as this indicates if the digital output is switched on for the chip (a reading of 0VDC means it's off but I believe you just need to jump 5v to it to get it turned on).

Anyway... here is the digital output kit that I will be using for my digital out mod on my CLD-M90....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CDROM-car-navigation-digital-signal-shaping-buffer-board-SPDIF-fiber-coaxial-out-/132130972507?hash=item1ec39ea35b

Hope this helps and best of luck.
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