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| ldfan |
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Posted: 10 Apr 2022, 03:07
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The middle leg of Q351 is where I tapped my RF point on my CLD-M90 and it works great.
I don’t think there is really an exactly correct place to tap the RF so it can possibly work where you have it (only way to find out is to try it). In any case, the RF tap is somewhere just before the band pass filter of the CX chip which is exactly where you have it.
As for using an oscilloscope to find a tap point, I don’t think it’s necessary. So long as you know the general location you need to go, just see what happens. Worst case it doesn’t work and you just move on to another nearby point and try again. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 10 Apr 2022, 21:30
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This comparison request is really irrelevant since the 616 is not even a model sold for the US market (it’s a 100v model made for Japan) and because of that one would be hard pressed to find someone who actually used it and an LX-900 to do a fair comparison.
Thus, it would be all conjecture to form an opinion so we would have to make a lot of guesses based on equivalent US models we think it is close to. So, in my opinion this model appears to be a hybrid between a CLD-3080 and CLD-95 Elite but incorporating a 1 bit DA converter for audio instead of the US models having a multi-bit DAC. I’ll leave it at that.
Lastly, the person on Twitter probably lucked out getting it for that price as it appears they usually go for about $500 or more in working order (not including shipping to the US) so don’t waste your time even thinking you could get one for cheap. As Kurtis said, stick with your Panasonic as I think you wouldn’t be happier with anything else. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 12 Apr 2022, 15:20
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I was thinking the same, but the jacks are grouped like on a CLD-2080 instead of split like on the CLD-3080 and CLD-95.
I found this: https://omsound.exblog.jp/17746798/
Maybe its a CLD-2080 with CLD-3080 video upgrades but no audio upgrades?
Good catch. I literally missed that.
I was basing my opinion mostly on the “digital memory” button and jog/shuttle remote. I guess an upgraded CLD-2080 would be a closer match. Interesting how Pioneer really mixed and matched their chassis designs. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 15 Apr 2022, 01:27
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Isn’t this the common theme of the Technical Troubleshooting section? :lol:
1) Member buys LD player on-line and has it shipped
2) Member tells us about their experience and frustration about getting a damaged player
3) We say, “you know, you should really try and purchase a player locally as players’ are fragile.”
4) Member says, “I just can’t find a player locally”. And we say, “Um…. Well I guess you have no choice then.”
5) Member buys another play on-line and has it shipped again
6) Member tells us again about their experience and frustration about getting a damaged player
7) same as “3”
8) same as “4”
Anyway, shipping an LD player is always a risk one way or another. Most of the issue are mechanical and sometimes they can be fixed. This might explain why your LX-H670 has its playback issues (probably knocked its alignment off).
As to showing up totally dead (no power), that probably means the player was likely dead before being shipped out. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 15 Apr 2022, 06:17
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I don't think it's an alignment issue. It plays most laserdiscs perfectly fine. It seems to have issues with laserdiscs that either has scratches or are warped.
You mentioned as well that there are times the H670 will reset an LD from the start after fast forwarding the disc for a period of time. This is very abnormal for any player to do that unless there is something out of whack in it. Also, the fact that your 900 plays all the discs perfectly that the H670 does not is proof enough this player needs some maintenance. It’s not a disc issue. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 18 Apr 2022, 09:17
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I planned to reply to this sooner but needed more time to research the points I wanted to make (actually learned a few things along the way). Also, trying to juggle a full time job & a newborn and you know what I am going through right now. :yawn:
Source: https://groups.google.com/g/rec.video/c/ELIzn5Fochg
The following is a comparison of two laser disc players: the Panasonic
LX-900 and the Pioneer CLD-D701. The tests were not done scientifically
and are only the opinions of myself and my friend Joe (rab...@pacesetter.com).
Readers are encouraged to audition the two players and make their own decisions.
Review Date: March 21, 1993
Location: "The Good Guys", Northridge, CA
Time: 10:30 AM
Units Tested: Panasonic LX-900, Pioneer CLD-D701
Test TV: Panasonic direct-view tv. size was about 27".
Model unknown (I told you this wasn't scientific).
What I highlighted above pretty much tells me all I need to know. As for the rest of this unscientific review, I'll nit pick every one of their assertions.....
Armed with "LD-101 A Video Standard" and 2 CLV discs which have known
problems playing on an older Sony LD player, we fearlessly entered
the high-pressure world of consumer electronics.
Joe and I went straight for the LD section, distracted only briefly by the
"Demo equipment" for sale. We were instantly attacked by a salesman. He
stuck around for a while, then got bored and left us alone (thank god).
I worked at The Good Guys! around this period and we were paid on commission w/ a low base salary. Thus, our job was to simply make a living (and really barely enough to live on) and not attack a customer. This is the kind of disrespect from customers that really turned me off on top of the pathetic attitude some had that "the customer is always right" which is crock (a customer has the right to voice a concern and then you work to resolve it).
Anyway, it's sad when I hear the occasional complaint that there are no knowledgeable sales people around anymore. Well, no one wants to do a job like that if you treat salespeople like crap. Although there are definitely some really bad sales people, there are good one's too.
We then spent the next hour comparing the two machines.
Test 1: Bad Disc test.
We tried playing problem spots on two different discs on each machine.
Both machines played the discs perfectly.
Winner:
Tie
Hmmm.... sounds more like the Sony LD player they owned had an issue playing the disc was the real problem. I own a lot of used discs in various conditions and they all play fine. This test only proved they don't recognize they own an LD player in need of servicing.
Test 2: Unload Disc Time
We timed how long it took for the disc drawer to completely open after
"Open" was pressed while a disc was playing. Each machine took about
8.5 seconds.
Winner:
Tie
Why is this even relevant? You can't wait a second longer to load or unload a disc? Seems like an odd thing to consider.
Test 3: Side Change
We timed how long it took to change sides. The pioneer took 18 seconds.
The panasonic took 11 seconds. This is significant (IMO)! Also, the
Panasonic showed the last frame on the disc while the side was changing.
The Pioneer showed a random frame from earlier in the disc (about 1
minute back)!
Winner:
Panasonic
Not going to question this. Alpha Turns are slower since the mechanism was designed to flip the pick-up in a manner to keep the laser facing the same direction for Side A & B (U-turn on the Panasonic as well as Epsilon Turn on later Pioneer players reverses the direction of the laser that supposedly could cause picture quality differences even though I never noticed it myself).
Also, the random frame grab on the Pioneer is annoying to me as well so that is why I engage "film mode" on my 701 to just show a black screen during side change. It also speeds up the side change as the player doesn’t look for a random image before making the flip. Thus, if our amateur reviewers tested it that way, maybe this test might have ended closer to a tie but the Panasonic would probably still win.
Test 4: Time Seek to a Certain Frame.
We did a long "seek" to a specific frame using a CAV disc. The pioneer
took 18 seconds. The panasonic took 10 seconds. This is significant (IMO)!
Winner:
Panasonic
I have seen this before on some of my discs. Not sure if it's a pressing flaw on certain titles but it definitely is not a consistent thing I experience. I can use another CAV disc on the same player and would be fine. So I'll give it to Panasonic as it probably has more advanced tracking circuitry since the 701 is an older model (702 should have been compared but they aren't that much different).
Test 5: All Red Test
We froze the "All Red" screen on LD-101 to view the color pureness.
Both machines looked equally bad on this test.
Winner:
Tie
Test 6: All Pink Test
We froze the "All Pink" screen on LD-101 to view the color pureness.
The Pioneer had very bad color pureness with many different color bands
running horizontally across the screen. The Panasonic also had bands, but
they were not nearly as bad as the Pioneer. This was very obvious.
Winner:
Panasonic
Test 7: Horizontal Color Bars
We froze the "Horizontal Color Bars" screen on LD-101 to view the color
pureness. Pink and Blue were the worst on both machines.
Winner:
Tie
Test 8: Chroma Test
We froze the "Chroma Test Screen" on LD-101. Blue and Pink were equally
bad on both machines.
Winner:
Tie
Test 9: SMPTE
We froze the "SMPTE Resolution Screen" on LD-101. The machines were
indistinguishable in this test.
Winner:
Tie
I'm no expert on test patterns so I can't say anything one way or another. Also, in the year 2022, I don't think we would be too picky acquiring a less than desirable performing player seeing we really can't be too picky with what is available out there to acquire. We take what we can get even if it sucks.
Test 10: Scan a CLV disc
We compared the smoothness of the scanning on CLV discs. The Panasonic
seemed smoother. Also, the Pioneer seemed to skip some frames. I've heard
that the Panasonic has more field memory and can display every frame where
the Pioneer has problems towards the end of the disc. Don't know the validity
of this, though.
The LX-900 probably would have more memory since it deploys a full time field memory buffer (that's why the player has a more digital looking picture). I am not sure what the reviewer means by the Pioneer unit displaying fewer frames toward the end of a CLV disc. The fact is, field memory is "approximating" frames for CLV discs so I don't expect a whole lot of accuracy here especially when viewing LD's shot from film sources that have to be converted from 24fps to NTSC 30fps.
.....An interesting side note: When going from freeze to play
on CLV discs, the Pioneer picture would always get a big glitch in it (a
large white streak in the middle and a quick jitter in the picture). The
Panasonic was absolutely smooth in this respect.
This is an aspect of the test I really wanted to nit pick as this is a great example why these guys are not very knowledgeable about how a Digital Field Memory Buffer works.
Yes.... the Pioneer CLD-D701 will have those glitches when engaging special effects playback on a CLV disc because the player does not deploy a full time field memory buffer like the LX-900. This was a design choice by Pioneer (as well as Panasonic on their LX-1000) since I believe the particular field memory they used was not that great from a picture quality perspective for normal playback (I did test my 701 recently w/ field memory forced on for playback and honestly speaking it looks the same to me with it off so maybe I am wrong about the circuit causing a softer picture; I know my CLD-3030 definitely looks better w/ field memory left off). The odd thing is that Pioneer did have the technology to deploy (what I believe) is a higher resolution field memory circuit as they implemented one in the Elite CLD-95 which came out the same year as the 701 (possibly it was too expensive at the time so that is why it took them two more years to make it more affordable in the CLD-D703). Also, it should be noted that the full time field memory on the LX-900 & CLD-D703 do look more "digital" and some people don't always like that especially if there is an interest of running these players into a video processor / scaler to improve image quality (it basically double processes the signal & introduces artifacts). For the Elite CLD-95 & CLD-97 with their full time field memory, people claim they still have a more "analog" looking picture that in turn works well w/ the extra processing (I have a 703 & 97 but have yet to confirm this).
Maybe Kurtis can tells us the pros and cons of all the ways field memory was implemented for different models from 1988 to the last generation players. I could use more education on this. :think:
Another plus for the
Panasonic was that on CLV discs in freeze mode, it shows the minutes,
seconds, and frame number (30 frames/sec). The Pioneer only showed minutes
and seconds. BTW, we counted the frames on the pioneer and it only showed
13 frames before incrementing the "seconds" counter. This implies that
it skips 2 or 3 frames!
Winner:
Panasonic
I don't recall if I ever saw the LX-900 being able to show frame numbers. This would be a unique feature. Maybe jesuslovesgood can confirm this? I also texted a friend of mine to confirm on his LX-900 but have yet to hear back.
Anyway, I already mentioned earlier that frame counting for a CLV disc is probably an "approximation" made by the field memory circuit and further affected by whether the disc played back is film (24fps) or video (30fps) based. I tested a CLV movie on my 701 just recently and counted anywhere from 20 or 27 frames within a second. I also tested my VCR and got exactly 30 frames in a second (which makes sense since helical scan video is designed that way). I planned to test a DVD but ran out of time but I assume it would be similar or worse than LD depending on the player. So what does it all mean; maybe not much to the casual viewer. If one really has to study a movie on LD, just get a CAV version of it.
Test 11: Remote Controls
This is a subjective look at the remotes. Each were similar, but there
were a few notable differences. The Panasonic "Jog" dial has nice clicks
when you turn it. The Pioneer just spins freely. The Pioneer has a side
button which lights-up common used keys on the remote. The Pioneer lacks
a "Stop" button, but I believe we found a differently labeled button which
starts the disc from the beginning.
Winner:
Panasonic (IMO)
Yeah.... Pioneer's "Stop" button is actually "Stop/Eject" on the remote. And although I know this is about "remotes", I have to wonder why he didn't notice the "Play" button on the 701 front panel is "Play/Pause". C'mon....if one has to diss dual function buttons, be more thorough.
Test 12: Front Panel Ergonomics (subjective)
I don't know about Joe, but to me the Panasonic front panel was laid
out much better than the Pioneer. The Pioneer has button labels on an
area which looks like buttons. I kept pressing this area expecting
something to happen, when the real button was beneath the area I was
pressing. Bad user interface!
Winner:
Panasonic
Really? I'd like to ask Joe if he could tell us what Tom's eyesight was like during this trip (although it could be poor lighting as Good Guys! stores were particularly dark). He probably would love the remote that comes w/ a CLD-V2800 :thumbup:
https://i.vgy.me/dBIAI1.jpg
Also, the jog wheel on the LX-900 front panel doesn't have that "clickity" feel like it has on the remote; shouldn't that be a demerit?
Test 13: Misc. Comments/Problems
Two times the Panasonic refused to play a disc after loading it. We had
to re-open the drawer and close it to get the disc to load properly.
The Pioneer had no such problems. This may be a problem with this
particular demo unit. Has any LX-900 owners out there had this problem?
Winner:
Pioneer
jesuslovesgood has this issue. :lolno:
But really. I think everyone has this issue every so often. Most of the time it is clamping issue possibly caused by a stretched loading belt (although this shouldn't be an issue back in 1993). Right now my ProScan (Pioneer clone) has been sporadically spitting out CD's so I'll need to look into it at some point.
Conclusions:
If the disc-load problem is a fluke, then the clear winner (IMO) is
the Panasonic. Note that we did not test audio at all (the viewing area
was not set-up for it). I've read in "Video" that the Panasonic is smoother,
but I expect either would be great in this respect.
Good Guys! store always set-up their LD players on the same shelving as the VCRs' which means no connection to an audio system. This was the reviewers big mistake. They should have went to a store that specialized in LD and had players set-up w/ a high end home theater system. I bet they didn't even try to adjust the monitors used w/ the LD players which makes this test even more flawed (which now calls into question all their test pattern tests mentioned above). :roll:
There was also a new Denon player which the salesman said was really a
Pioneer combined with Denon's audio chips. This unit, he claimed, was much
better sounding than either of the two we were looking at (I doubt it).
Yeah... Tom is right about that. I'm assuming it was probably a Denon, LA-3100 which is a clone of the CLD-D701 (but with a more CLD-3090 front face)
Anyways, the Denon's front panel was better laid out than the Pioneers.
Anyways .... I guess I can admit the LA3100 (assuming this is the player) has a more appealing look. Regardless, Pioneer still designed the Denon front facade so it's still a win for Pioneer.
It's remote was almost identical to the Pioneer's with a few exceptions
(like the back light for the buttons was red, not green ).
Yeah..... Remember I mentioned a moment ago about questioning Tom's eyesight? The back light on the Pioneer remote is yellow; not green
We tried freezing a frame on the Denon, then starting it up...yep, it's a Pioneer!
Same glitch!
Once again; not a glitch.
-Tom Levin
Thank you Tom for your incredibly subjective review based mostly on personal preferences. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 23 Apr 2022, 06:35
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The Criterion 2001 CAV is not a known rotter. Regardless, the seller should just accept a return for selling a disc set in such poor condition.
Request a return and patiently look for another copy in better condition. This is not a sought after title so prices are reasonable for it.
And as everyone has already mentioned, “laser rot” is not something you can physically see with your eyes (at least 99% of the time). You play the disc and see if there are excessive drop outs in the video. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 25 Apr 2022, 23:46
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Welcome to the forum  .
patrynxx wrote: Despite the folks who continue to say 20 some years on Laserdiscs are dying how's that work when the prices continue to go up??
What's old is new again. That's basically it along with good old nostalgia. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 04 May 2022, 05:21
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Decided to reach out to my friend again who happens to own both a Panasonic LX-900 and a Quasar LD-700 (same machine).
He confirmed that his LX-900 also has the issue with right side image being cut off and has no issue with the AGC (not sure of manufacturing date as he has it boxed up). For his LD-700, the right side is not cut off and it also has no AGC issues (the reason he purchased this model in the first place). It was also manufactured in April 1993.
So this begged the question; why did Matsushita (parent company of Panasonic, Quasar, & Technics) do everything right from the start on the LD-700 but did nothing with the LX-900 (especially with all the revisions). He’s been trying to find the answer to that question forever and still has no idea.
In addition, Culture Dog also confirmed everything my friend stated about the LD-700 on one of his videos….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QjaONFOgCo
I guess at this point, if you want to have the perfect LX-900 you’re going to have to get an LD-700 (if you can find one and at a price you feel is worth it). |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 06 May 2022, 20:17
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My CLD-97 wasn’t complete when I purchased it a couple of years ago (missing side panels and decorative footers) but it was literally scratch free on the front panel and the door was intact. Also, its playback performance was excellent mechanically (it might need an adjustment for the picture but I couldn’t tell).
I later reached out to Kurtis and he sold me the parts I needed to complete the look of this baby and I couldn’t be happier with it. Total cost was about $500. The only thing left to work on it is to cut up some new rubber for the underside of the footers and do an AC3 mod to it. Probably won’t be done for another five years at the rate I’m going with my new son keeping me busy :?.
https://i.vgy.me/uJQOds.jpg |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 11 May 2022, 08:37
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| Probably should have purchased a CLD-3030 instead so you wouldn't have to deal w/ a 100 VAC transformer (3030 is the US equivalent of the 99S). |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 12 May 2022, 18:23
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I did recently overhaul my brother's vintage JVC, L-A10 belt drive turntable that he gave me w/ the expectation I might start getting into vinyl. But after replacing the belt (+coated the belt in talcum powder to fix a speed issue), upgrading the cardtridge (went from an ancient Empire LTD-200 to an Audio Technica AT-VM95E), and setting up a platform for it to add more resistance to vibration; I sort of lost interest.
I guess I grew up a CD guy and I really feel it is still the better format hands down. Not to mention, vinyl is now more expensive than CD and used CD's in general are the best bargains out there right now. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 14 May 2022, 17:16
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Any player can be a steal if it's cheap and in good working order (if broken and free, it can be a fun project to see if it could be fixed and then feel a sense of accomplishment).
Anyway, I was recently gifted a perfectly working Mitsubishi M-V7057 (704 clone) w/ the original remote. Didn't know the guy and I think he really just wanted a good home for his player. You can't really beat a deal like that. 8-) |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 15 May 2022, 02:44
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I like the CLD-909 a lot.
I missed that part in the video :roll:.
I always thought the CD mechanism was cool in this unit in regards to the separate spindle that folds down. I probably would pay $10 to have that in my collection.
Here is a link on how that mechanism works if anyone was interested (CLD-7 was the Japanese version of this player)....
https://www.laserdiscarchive.co.uk/laserdisc_archive/pioneer/pioneer_cld-7/pioneer_cld-7.htm |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 18 May 2022, 10:00
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Yeah, i just thought that was a necessary evil, and hoped damage wouldn't be too bad. It was packed extremely well.
I guess it can be if you really absolutely have no way of obtaining a player locally.
In any case, it’s really difficult to safely ship an LD player (even when the format was new). They are just so large, heavy, and fragile.
Anyway, I think 12voltvid on YouTube also dealt with this issue recently on a CLD-1030. Check out this video especially toward the end where he shows the broken gear assembly cplusplus mentions. It may shine a light on where to look as I know it’s difficult to see something we take for granted since we work on these players a lot more
https://youtu.be/MXSo8Wd3ClU |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 23 May 2022, 05:38
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I think you need to first wait until it arrives to properly test and then give us a full report on what it does or does not do (chances are it will get even more dinged in shipping as that can’t be helped even if double boxed  ). |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 23 May 2022, 18:39
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I had this exact same issue a couple of years back w/ my CLD-3030.
The plastic part that held the spring broke and I ended up gluing it back but it snapped again due to the stress placed on it. I ended up devising a better solution of gluing it back again but then cementing thin layers of plastruct sheets around the crack to reinforce it. It worked great and haven't had a problem since.
Wish I had taken pics of it to post but I could open it up again to photograph when I have the time |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 23 May 2022, 19:12
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cplusplus wrote: M-Holder is probably going to be broken.
I was thinking the same but didn't want to jump the gun on it. However, if that is the only issue, that would be a best case scenario since the 3D part is now available for it. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 24 May 2022, 00:40
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toastyfloss wrote: Well I'm an idiot.
I would look at it more like dodging a bullet and saving yourself from a lot of frustration. Anyway, I suppose where you live may not have a huge used electronics market as it would be best to pick-up a player locally. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 27 May 2022, 22:33
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From what I think cplusplus mentioned before, the fish smell may well be capacitors in the spindle motor that need replacing. And if that is the case, the motor may not even spin up at all or may not reach its intended rotation speed.
As for the wobble, I did fix my M90 and it was simply caused by the tray not being properly aligned so the disc would never center properly. This also affected CD loading as the pick-up arm would be off center so the arm couldn’t grab a disc properly. You will need to retract the tray, remove it, and then try to re-insert w/ a perfect mesh of the gears (it may take several tries). I would download the service manual as it has a section on the procedure.
And don't ship this player anymore; probably did more damage doing just that on top of the fact that the repair shop you sent it to probably had little to no experience dealing w/ LD players.
Here is a pic of how off an LD’s centering hole was over the spindle motor before I fixed it…..
https://i.vgy.me/OvlSHH.jpg
You’ll know you fixed it when the disc is precisely centered. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 06 Jun 2022, 20:57
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Good to know I’ll have spare parts access for my CLD-3030  |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 14 Jun 2022, 06:54
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No big deal :).
We work on our players when the time allows for it. I’ve pretty much completely shut down all my projects because of my baby boy and hoping I might have time again in four years when he starts pre-school (or maybe I can sneak in some minor projects in the meantime but it hasn’t been easy so far). |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 19 Jun 2022, 02:09
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All "digital field memory" players that are dual side play are designed to capture an image just before the side change to simply put something on the screen instead of the common blue or black screen on non-field memory players.
The feature is defeatable on Pioneer models with "film mode" that will just leave a black screen between side changes and I think Pioneer only implemented them from the CLD-D701 and later (CLD-59/79/99 or later on the Elite line-up). I guess people might have complained about not having the option to defeat the frame capture so that might be one reason why it was added but I think it was really implemented to speed up side changes since that was considered a big thing back in the day.
So for the LX-900, if you can't find a button to do what you want, then it doesn't offer the option. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 30 Jun 2022, 08:18
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Just a post to highlight the fact that Denon Player Remote Control's work on Pioneer Players.
For the most part, that is accurate :thumbup:.
There are a few exceptions like maybe some pre 1988 Denon players that were made by Philips that probably would have Philips IR codes and the Denon LA-3500 & LA-3500KG (1995) which is a Panasonic clone that I'm sure would retain the Panasonic IR codes.
Otherwise, a good majority of Denon machines as early as 1989 and as late as 1997 are going to be Pioneer clones. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 01 Jul 2022, 00:09
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Nice story on resurrecting your players. You're are doing a great deed keeping these players away from the landfill or recycling center .
Enjoy the hobby  . |
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Thanks list