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| ldfan |
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Posted: 01 Jun 2021, 16:34
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So recently i've been having some audio issues.....the Analog Stereo outs (both sets) on BOTH my high end units have gone caput (DVL-909, Elite CLD-59.) I tried different cables, no dice, just seems to be a weak point for whatever reason.
Are your RCA cables excessive tight and if so do you "twist" them when trying to remove or insert them on the audio output jacks? If so, you could have twisted the jacks off of the PC board and thus broke the connections. This was a somewhat common issue back in the day when Monster Cable (and possibly other manufacturers) made some excessively tight RCA connectors w/ the turbine design. When I insert or remove RCA jacks, I never apply a twisting motion.
SO--in the meantime i'm experimenting with various back-up players and finding it difficult to find quality audio. For example, i hooked up a CLD-M403, which i figured might be a little better than my CLD S-201, and it plays CD's loudly and crystal clear, and newer discs sound fine, but many older discs sound very quiet, and i have to turn my receiver way up, and you can hear buzzing and other issues when this is done. Why is this? Did older LD's have lower analog audio quality, or am i just not adjusting my receiver correctly for Mono discs?
I have never had this issue before on any player or disc combination I have played. Can you provide specifics on the disc(s) that have lower volume. Also, can you be specific if these discs are "analog only" or "digital/analog" discs?
The buzzing sound could be a poor ground. Are your RCA jacks fully inserted into their respective plugs?
I try to watch my movies in Dolby Pro logic, which requires stereo, but clearly if that doesn't sound right the disc is in Mono? I was watching Caddyshack (https://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/43342/2005/Caddyshack) last night, and i put it in "all-channel stereo" which is supposed to be all five channels, and the front right channel was missing.
First, the movie is mono but would have the same soundtrack encoded on both the left and right audio tracks. So, you should have sound on the right channel unless your right analog audio output is not making a good connection to your AV Receiver. If you are using the digital output, the receiver should here both channels.
Second, don't use those ridiculous "five channel" stereo modes. These sound effects options are just gimmicks. If the movie was intended to be in mono, that's way it should be heard. For me, I just turn off Pro-Logic and just listen in stereo mode.
So maybe i need to be doing manual override to Mono to get better/louder sound out of the discs i'm having problems with. My receiver is a Sony STR-DN1080, so i'm not sure I can even select Mono. It's either Stereo, AFD, or Multi-channel, and i think AFD defaults to Stereo, how best to get around this? Should I select only the left audio track or right maybe to force multi channel mono through the receiver? I did mess around with that but it didn't seem to make a difference.
As a test, you can use the "audio" button on the LD remote to choose between "stereo", "left", and "right" to see if that makes any difference. This will also help you evaluate if your right analog audio output jack could be bad in respect to what you mentioned about not having any sound on the right output.
I was also noticing when i hit a button on the remote i can turn the Red "Digital Sound" box off and on on the CLD-M403. Whats the point of this, the unit has only analog outs?
It appears that you don't realize that the analog left and right output jacks can output both the "digital" and "analog" audio tracks. That is the purpose of the button (and the way we access the commentary tracks that are usually on the analog track). Remember, digital sound does not mean it only comes out of the optical / coaxial digital outs. All LD players that are digital sound capable have "built in D/A converters" so they can process digital sound internally and output from the left and right outs. That is also why you can hear "digital" CD audio from the left and right audio jacks on players that don't have optical / coaxial digital outs. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 01 Jun 2021, 20:18
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Yes i really like the 5 speaker stereo; it sounds just like 2 speaker but louder and better.
Maybe I’ll give it a try when I’m feeling hard of hearing. I’m not exactly getting younger ;).
Mono also seems to confuse the new Dolby Digital decoder because sound only comes out of the left channel when i switch to surround on a mono disc.
Sounds like your right speaker is not connected. Have you tried another source like the radio?
I did take the cover off my DVL-909 today to look at the Analog audio inputs, nothing was loose, broken, etc. so i have no idea whats up with those.
The 909 has (what I believe) is a bottom mounted board so you won’t be able to see any broken solder joints as they would be on the underside. The 59 does have a side mounted board and you can look at the solder pads for the jacks on the green side to see if they could have broken loose. Here is an image of what it could look like.....
https://i.vgy.me/8oOsu9.png |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 04 Jun 2021, 08:39
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Do a search on ebay or any electronic supply company for "FFC Cable". You just might find one w/ the pin count and length needed for the player.
I did this fix a bad cable on a Sony DVD Changer. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 07 Jun 2021, 03:13
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I think it probably depends on the player still.
Since most of my players are custom mods, one of my players actually kills the AC3 signal the moment I switch to analog. For my M90, I would have sworn nothing occurred to the AC3 signal when making any combination of changes to the audio selection but I'll need to double check that.
For factory AC3 players, it appears that is the case when choosing right analog. However, I think that is not always obvious since there is an extra bit of logic built into these players that shouldn't allow the right analog track to be chosen once the player knows it is an AC3 disc (unless maybe right analog was chosen before playback begins). |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 07 Jun 2021, 06:36
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Interesting. I read several years back in a technical printing that the laserdisc video output was a composite video and S-video was not any better. Love to hear the other side of that conclusion. Thanks
You are correct about that but there are exceptions to every rule. The application of S-Video for LD can be looked at from this perspective.....
The comb filter in the TV is superior than the Y/C Separator in the LD player; you use the composite output of the player.
The comb filter in the TV is inferior than the Y/C Separator in the LD player; you use the S-Video output of the player.
Also, many LD players from 1993 and later (like the Pioneer CLD-D703) actually has a re-processed composite video out post Y/C separation so it may have a compromised quality to it. With this in mind, it just keeps making it more complicated deciding which is better. So, If you are not sure which device has the better video processing circuit, you try both and see which one has the more pleasing picture to you. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 29 Jun 2021, 19:24
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The A100 sled mechanism should be similar to other single side players with a belt driven sled assembly. Check the following.....
Sled belt marked in "blue" for excessive play. If it feels normal, remove and clean the belt and the gears it touches w/ alcohol as it could be slipping due to dirt or grease. If too loose, need to order a new carriage assembly drive belt (part VEB-1077). You can find one here.... https://console5.com/store/catalogsearch/result/?q=cld-a100
Sled gearing marked in "yellow" might show cracks on the track. I have cracks on mine but they don't affect playback. However, if a crack is big enough, it can impede movement. If you have cracks, see if they coincide w/ the timing of your skipping issue. Not sure what the solution would be if it's really bad.
Metal sled marked in "red" could need cleaning and then a new coat of a light synthetic oil that is safe for plastic. I use one geared for slot car motors.
https://i.vgy.me/eDtmd8.jpg
Hope this is helpful. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 03 Jul 2021, 19:36
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You can still order a kit from Benedictus....
http://www.benedictus.de/bde/AC3-1.htm
I think the cost is about 75 Euro + 20 Euro for shipping. The kit comes w/ all the parts needed to complete the mod + specific instructions on where to solder wires on your specific player.
I have used these kits a lot in the early 2000's and they work great. However, I have since moved on and now making my own boards to keep cost down as I continue to upgrade my remaining players. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 09 Jul 2021, 08:43
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I will be modding a 703 in a few months.
For now, if you need tap points for it, it can be found here....
http://www.vellzen.us/laserdisc.html
This should be one of the more easier models to mod since everything is essentially labeled on the audio board. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 09 Jul 2021, 17:20
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Will you be using the same circuit and components for the D770/703 as you did for the Proscan?
Yes. This board is pretty universal for any player that has a "mute active high" (MAH) point which I believe all North American and Japanese players would have. The only players that have "mute active low" (MAL) are European players so a slightly altered design would be needed.
I would def be more comfortable making the larger board - that is if it would fit ok.
The board can really fit anywhere but I know the minor difficulty w/ a 703 is that the audio board is way on top of the player so mounting would have to be from below. This might pose a minor challenge since that means running wires from the top board and leaving enough strain relief back to the AC3 board wherever it may be mounted (remember, this audio board can flip up for maintenance so you need to ensure proper strain relief to avoid the wires getting pulled too much).
So Potential AC3 Circuit parts list:
1x NTE123AP Transistor for Q1
1x DTA124ES Transistor for Q2
4x 0.1uF Capacitors for C1, C2, C3, C4
1x 100ohm Resistor for R1
1x 680ohm Resistor for R2
1x 10Kohm Resistor for R3
1x 100Kohm Resistor for R4
1x 75ohm Resistor for R5
1x RCA Socket for AC3 Output
1x Component Board
That is essentially all the parts you need plus some color coded wiring for the points and RG179 coax cable (I think; need to double check that) for the signals to travel within the player (AFM and AC3-RF). Also, I have been hearing from others that DTA-124ES might not be available anymore but a reasonable substitute can be obtained as it's just a generic PNP transistor. You can probably do a search and see what comes up for a recommended replacement. I'll be looking into it as well since I think I'm down to my last 2 or 3 now. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 13 Jul 2021, 05:07
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Capacitors found some tantulum and polyester 0.1uF ...which is best for this purpose !?
The one's I use are polyester but I'm sure tantulum would be fine too. So long as they are 0.1uf. The only purpose of these caps is for filtering noise.
EDIT:
I can obtain a DTC124ES from a local supplier - I believe it has the same characteristics and built-in bias resistor as the DTS124ES transistor. Datasheet below.
https://www.digchip.com/datasheets/parts/datasheet/343/DTC124ES-pdf.php
The NTE123AP NPN specifically seems harder to find in Australia..
I have found a few NPN General Purpose Amplifier Transistors available locally..characteristics are not 100% same..similar though - are most suitable ?
PN100 - Datasheet:
https://www.jaycar.com.au/medias/sys_master/images/images/9525191344158/ZT2283-dataSheetMain.pdf
Or
2N2222A - Datasheet:
https://www.jaycar.com.au/medias/sys_master/images/images/9525197963294/ZT2298-dataSheetMain.pdf
Or
BC547 - Datasheet:
https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Components/BC546.pdf
Versus
NTE123AP - Datasheet:
https://components101.com/asset/sites/default/files/component_datasheet/NTE123AP-Datasheet.pdf
I looked over these fairly quickly and I don't think there should be an issue using any of them. They all have similar voltage ratings which are all within the range of this very simple circuit. Just make sure you have the base, collector, and emitter wired up correctly in the circuit. Here are updated pics I made showing the transistor points as well as resistor / transistor locations in my circuit.
https://i.vgy.me/HQgJTd.jpg
https://i.vgy.me/l2jfDO.jpg |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 15 Jul 2021, 19:25
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You can’t simply look at a belt and assume it looks good to you. A bad belt can still look and feel elastic but the bigger issue is that they stretch over time. Once that happens, all sorts of issues occur due to slippage.
A good way to prove this point would be to clean the belt and the hubs it attaches to with alcohol and see what happens afterwards. You might be surprised that the player will suddenly work better for awhile but will probably have issues again until a new belt is installed. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 22 Jul 2021, 16:16
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Yes... loading belt very likely needs replacing if it’s still the original. Do you hear a squealing noise when hitting eject? That is usually the first sign of belt issues.
Also, in addition to caps or loose wiring, check for cold solder joints on the display board as well. My CLD-3030 had its display pulsating for awhile until I resoldered the connections on the FL display. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 07:02
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Good job finding the issue. Nice to have a fully working player again. I’m sure the display will keep going fine.  |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 23 Aug 2021, 00:33
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There is a weight difference between compact disc and laserdisc, so the belt needs to be strong and keep its tension to get the laserdisc up and running.
yes but loading belts are more for the tray not getting disc up to speed.
Thats the spindle motor.
The loading belt does actually make a difference if an LD does or does not play. The loading belt doesn't just move the tray but in most cases (not sure if on the CLD-97 since it has two belts) it also lowers the clamper (Alpha Turn design) or bring the carriage up to the clamper (Gamma & Epsilon Turn design).
If the belt is too loose, it will not exert enough clamping force on an LD disc and thus the machine knows this and will not play. For CD, even a somewhat loose belt will still apply enough force and allow playback. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 15 Sep 2021, 06:41
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It's quite difficult to find an original Panasonic LD remote since there were far fewer variety of players made by them.
You might be better off to simply get a Logitec universal remote (preferable w/ an LCD display that would have the ability to assign special buttons) as their IR database is pretty complete from what I have heard.
Also, keep a search open on eBay for VEQ1509 just in case. It could come up @ some point. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 17 Sep 2021, 04:32
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All LD players that have a Coaxial and/or Optical PCM output can pass the DTS codec so long as the disc you have actually has the codec embedded on it.
So, are you sure you have this version of Vertigo?.....
https://i.vgy.me/kQgbxl.jpg
..... or this one?......
https://i.vgy.me/zmDYwp.jpg
If you have the former, you have the correct disc.
Also, on your AV Receiver, it appears your only choice of input sections is "Audio 1" or "Audio 2" for the optical input so make sure your player is plugged into either one of them and see if it works. Also, it appears that your AV Receiver also has a "DTS Mode" option (look on page 153 of your manual) and see if switching between Mode 1 or Mode 2 makes a difference.
Hope this helps. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 25 Sep 2021, 21:03
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I haven't had any odd issues w/ audio syncing on the two set-ups that I currently use and possibly it's because I am not running TVs' w/ the latest processing technology but it might also be the way I set-up the signal flow (at least on my high end set-up).
For my better set-up, I have my Sony SDP-EP9ES feeding audio from its optical out (six channel output not used) to my Denon AVR-2808CI. It appears my Denon auto compensates for lag possibly due to the HDMI connection I have between it and the TV (even though I use an all composite video connection for LD playback). I do run all my video through the AV Receiver and my TV is only 1080p capable.
For my cheap set-up, I am using the six channel out from my Sony SDP-E800 w/ video also going through it (although I doubt any video is processed in this unit; just simple pass through). My TV on this set-up is only 720p capable so that is probably why there is no significant video delay. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 26 Sep 2021, 20:43
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Thanks to all for the explanations..yes I think you have nailed it...Currently for best picture - Im using composite from the D780 onto a Panasonic DMR-ES15 DVD Recorder then its Component to the QLED UHD Samsung TV.....
That's most likely your issue. You really can't use that DVD-R unit as I have noticed that they really add a lot of delay. If you could run both audio and video through it, it wouldn't be an issue but you obviously can't if you want to push AC3 or DTS. Does it really make that much of a difference in picture quality to LD playback? I have been using a straight composite on my set-up and I think it still looks better than any of the conversion options I have built into my Denon AV Receiver (but maybe it's my TV that has a decent comb filter)
If only the DDP-1 had Digital Out! then any receiver could add delay as needed.
I don't think that is totally true. With your current set-up, I doubt any AV Receiver could compensate for that much delay. I would see about getting another AC3 processor that has a digital output (or mod the DDP-1 to add one) and then get a video processor w/ the type of comb filter you want along w/ a digital input to run the AC3 processor to it. I have a DVDO iScan VP30 I plan to incorporate in this fashion once I figure out if it truly is my best option to further improve my set-up.
... for now running composite directly to the TV bypassing the Panasonic DVD Recorder the sync is not perfect but watchable.
How off is it? You should be able to apply enough delay on the DDP1 to compensate for it. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 27 Sep 2021, 17:54
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I have a 2010 Sony EX700 1080p model and a 2008 Samsung 720P model. Obviously both do not have video processors that would severely slow down the video.
Have you tried the "gaming mode" on your TV? That's supposed to decrease lag time but might offer up a slightly inferior picture (but it's not like LD picture will ever match HD or 4K on any level).
As for the digital out, I know there is definitely a pin off of the PM-4007 IC (assuming this unit uses this chip) but I think it would only provide access only to the AC3-RF input (bypasses the two standard digital inputs). |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 29 Sep 2021, 20:30
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... I have sneaked a workaround of sorts for now whilst I figure out other options - which gives sync for voice from the center speaker.
I simply rerouted the centre channel from the DDP-1 AC3 processor to the Panasonic DVD-Recorder Left Analog Audio Input and then from the Left Analog Output from the DVD Recorder to the AV Receiver Center Input. Voice in Sync....!
That will definitely work :thumbup:.
You will still have delay on the other channels but it may not seem as obvious unless a person is talking to the far left or right side of a scene. You may even get a slight echo effect across the three front channels if a mix involves a combination of all those speakers. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 01 Oct 2021, 05:07
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Nice job C Plus!!! 
Loved how the RCA jack mounted from the “Antenna In” turned out; looks very inconspicuous.
BTW…. The AC3 board doesn’t look familiar to me. Is this a surface mount design you created on your own? |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 12 Oct 2021, 03:07
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 16 Oct 2021, 06:28
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I had a feeling it was mostly a belt issue :thumbup:.
This is pretty much a robust chassis from what I can tell and overall maintenance free except for the occasional belt change.
As for performing an AC3 mod, here are the points.
AFM (RF): right leg of Q352 (right side when looking @ the player from the front)(see pic below for details)
+5vdc: use voltmeter to find as there is no labeling (or see pic below for details)
-5vdv: use voltmeter to find as there is no labeling (or see pic blelow for details)
Mute: pin 10 of CN201 (see pic below showing underside of the audio board)
GND: use voltmeter to find any ground point
https://i.vgy.me/tVR1uk.jpg
https://i.vgy.me/wtYz9k.jpg
Hope this helps |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 27 Oct 2021, 06:06
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Pin 65 was working for me on ADP-303 direct.
Thanks C++
Looking at the circuitry in SM's ( circuitry in both DP870 and ADP303 appear identical) Pin 65 on on Pioneer IC PD4606A is labelled (DAOUT) - Pin 65 is connected in circuit directly to IC LC8904Q QRO1 on Pin 44 (DIN1)
Been Asking myself what is the purpose of this connection between these two IC's .. ?? Given that a 'Digital Output' is not implemented..or in other words what is the purpose of feeding the Digital Signal into Chip LC8904Q.
LC8904Q is a switching IC to route the three digital inputs to the processor circuitry. If you tap the digital out of Pin 65 of PD4606A, this is only a link to the AC3-RF input (coax and optical input will not be usable w/ your new digital out). Thus, you do need to tap a digital out from LC8904Q if you want the same switching capability of a Denon AVD-2000. Unfortunately, it appears no one has been able to get a usable signal from this chip to make it happen. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 30 Oct 2021, 03:16
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I will be ordering a couple of boards now and I will have to see if I can find an easier spot to solder the +5V and Gnd to ..as I struggle to see those IC pins clearly these days :)
I was going to mention this earlier when I saw the pic ldstl posted of the wires he soldered to the PD4606 chip. As an FYI, it's recommended to try and avoid soldering directly to tiny leg on an IC by simply seeing if you can first trace off of it w/ a voltmeter to find an alternate point that is easier to access. Here is an example when I soldered a wire to a DSP chip for my M90 mod.....
https://i.vgy.me/k4aU8k.jpg
https://i.vgy.me/e8QytL.jpg
It’s understandable that some points will need to be directly soldered to a leg if it happens to go no where on the board. However, points like a 5v power point and GND can be found very easily w/ a voltmeter and in many areas far and away from any IC. Sometimes they are even labeled on a jumper or connector such as this image indicates.....
https://i.vgy.me/lERrNI.jpg
And if you can't find a label for a power point, you simply keep the device on and use your voltmeter to skim around the board to find it (I usually look on the connectors). For GND, it's even easier to find one by simply soldering a wire to the pad of the GND section of an RCA jack.
Anyway, I wanted to get this out there to save anyone grief if they end up damaging their IC and thus turning your Proccessor into junk. |
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Thanks list