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| ldfan |
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Posted: 15 Dec 2020, 00:13
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I had these 3 laserdiscs stacked onto of each other which is what caused them to go warp.
Can you actually verify the change in warpage you claim prior to when you stacked them months or years ago and now? I honestly don't think if I had stacked three on top of each other there would be enough weight to significantly warp them unless you had them on an uneven surface or the room you had them in fluctuated in temperature extremes.
My Father and I took the lid off the player today and we diagnosed the problem to make sure it wasn't a player issue. We have determined it is not a player issue. We seen the disc playing fine at times but when it got to the problem areas of the disc it started wobbling in front of our eyes.
How do you know it's still not the player?
The fact that you have asked us all these various questions about your issue leads me to believe you really can't make such as easy assessment especially since we know that you and your dad are obviously not electronic repair technicians (and if you were, you would not be asking). It's pretty obvious to me that the fact your 900 plays the questionable discs perfectly means the discs are within tolerance to play properly (and let me just add that there is no perfectly flat laserdisc; they always have some level of warpage and that is why all players have a tilt servo to compensate to a certain degree). |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 15 Dec 2020, 21:18
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I would concur with that as well.
Even in LD’s heyday, it was far from being the perfect format. Always had to deal with laser rot (well... we still have rot on DVD and Blu ray), pressing imperfections, machines that needed tune-ups, and the somewhat complicated nature when changes to the format were made (e.g.: external decoders for CX & Digital Sound and the introduction of AC3 & DTS).
DVD and Blu ray are literally plug and play for the most part.
So for anyone deciding they want to get into LD now, gotta learn to be patient as well as accepting that there are imperfections. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 18 Dec 2020, 08:01
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If you are speaking about what is a glossy coating that is usually on the green side of most circuit boards, I believe this is for protecting the board from shorts that could occur if a liquid is spilled on it. This is pretty common from equipment I have seen from the 80's & 90's and I'm sure it's still done in the present (although I haven't really noticed or the way they do it now has changed).
In any case, you can still solder right through the coating and it should not be a problem removing caps. The coating simply burns off once you apply the iron to the point you're trying to solder. After you replace the caps, these solder points will no longer have the coating on it and it's fine to leave it as is. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 18 Dec 2020, 19:47
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By all means, let us know how it goes. The more info we have on successful fixes helps the community greatly  . |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 19 Dec 2020, 05:13
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A really awesome season two and what a great way to end it. Looking forward to more.  |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 19 Dec 2020, 07:17
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| Maybe you can post a pic of the board so I can see if we are on the same page. The coating is usually of a very thin film and just melts or disintegrates away w/ the iron. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 24 Dec 2020, 01:38
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It is just a really strong magnet.
Funny you mention this.....
The issue I have with my two Denon, LA-3100 is actually quite interesting as they both have very strong magnets in their clamper assembly that really makes the machine struggle to eject when the units are cold (sounds like the typical belt issue where it squeals and when the clamper finally pulls away from the spindle there will be a somewhat loud thump). Also, a nuisance of this issue is related to CD’s that get stuck in the mechanism and end up falling into the machine when ejecting so then I have to open it up to remove it.
Anyway, I have messaged Kurtis about this and he did state that stronger magnets are not unusual (and preferred for a tighter grip) but a remedy to the issue could be to grease the clamper assembly and all the parts related to its movement right down to where the loading gears are located. I haven’t gotten around to doing this yet so I can report back when I do finally get it done. If that doesn’t work, I might try something to insulate the magnet more to make it a tad weaker but I would have to work that out first. Also, I do have a 701 which is what the 3100 is based on (they both don’t have coaxial digital outputs which the 702 has) and its clamper is totally fine. I may take both units apart and swap parts to see how they may function to help diagnose the issue further.
Sorry for high jacking this part of the topic. I initially was confused by mrhifi’s issue and since I ended up writing this up before I realized it I figured I post it anyway in case anyone else had strong magnet issues. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 28 Dec 2020, 03:24
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I would just approach this is in a more simplistic way.
Order this part (hopefully it's available in Portugal).....
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CDROM-car-navigation-digital-signal-shaping-buffer-board-SPDIF-fiber-coaxial-out/323774426627
....and then just connect the provided coax wire to pin 43 of IC-802 (find a point that makes continuity w/ pin 43; going directly would be difficult to solder) and the black/red wire to the appropriate GND and +5v power point.
I plan on using this kit when I get around to modifying my CLD-M90. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 29 Dec 2020, 20:51
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Thanks for the reply! Is it really that simple? Has anyone already tried this on their players? I'm not a fan of buying things from China, but if there are no other easy options, I may just have to go for it.
kris confirmed it on this posting....
https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=8382
Definitely way simpler than piecing it together piece by piece as you are thinking of doing. This board basically has all those parts you need to make it work. Just need to tap the DSP chip to get a signal to it. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 01 Jan 2021, 05:19
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What is a clamping issue and can I replace the belt myself? I never opened a player and I am not an electrician/technician.
First off, you better start being a little more curious on what a player looks like from the inside because it will be easier to understand when we try to describe certain things. And you don't have to be a technician on any particular level to do that in the least.
A clamper is what grabs on to the center of the disc just prior to the player attempting to spin it. Here is an example from a CLD-D704 chassis......
https://i.vgy.me/vqIWET.jpg
If you open your player and watch what it does, it will on your particular player raise the disc up to it. At that point, it is clamped and ready to spin. However, if your loading belt is a tad loose, it may not be able to push the spindle mechanism (the part that spins the disc from underneath) firmly enough to the clamp to get a good grip. Whether this causes the bad vibration or not is hard to say.
In addition, you might want to look for a couple of other things that can be related. Look for any loose screws on the mechanism in general and tighten them as that could be causing the noise. Also, on the rubber mat on the spindle motor, this could become dirty or dried up to the point it can also cause a poor grip on the disc. You can try to clean this with a tad amount of alcohol and a swap to see if that makes the rubber grip better.
As for changing the belt, it shouldn't be difficult but I don't know for certain on your player. Some players are easy to access it like the CLD-D704 shown above (just have to remove the clamper to get to it) but others like the CLD-D604 has the belt under the tray and you have to remove it to get to it (not really that difficult but if you have never done it before you can mis-align the tray when you reassemble it). Just have to open it to look. Lastly, the belt you need should be part number VEB-1184. Do a search on the web to find one.
Good luck ;) |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 03 Jan 2021, 10:57
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I was thinking the discs would warp if you lay them on the floor and stack them instead of standing them up vertically.
General rule of thumb is to simply stand them up vertically to help reduce any pressure on the sides so that it won't have any affect on creating any chance of bending the disc. However, you can stack them without creating any warping issues so long as you are being reasonable about it (like don't stack 10 or more of them on top of each other).
In any case, stacking is the worst way to access your collection. Why would anyone want to to try and lift a huge number of discs to get to the one on the bottom? :o :roll: |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 10 Jan 2021, 02:56
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From the perspective of a frequent buyer myself, I would prefer it being opened (but save all the stickers on shrink wrap) so I could have the seller verify that the disc does not suffer from any laser rot that would guarantee a return on my part.
Also, it’s to a seller’s advantage as well to open it to verify the same thing as to ensure no unscrupulous buyer might be trying to con you on a defect you know should not exist. For example, maybe a buyer is trying to replace a rotted disc of the same title and taking advantage of the fact you have no idea if your disc is rotted or not.
So yes... open it and enjoy it ;). It won’t affect the value any differently and this particular title is valued anyway by collectors. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 11 Jan 2021, 18:58
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I just love when that happens. All the advice is "buy within driving distance" and then said advice is ignored and they keep buying more players to arrive broken.
That is the single most greatest advice when it comes to buying players; never ship it. :thumbup:
I've never had a bad player because of it. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 11 Jan 2021, 22:58
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Pretty much this. That is the number one thing I hear, something along the lines of "There aren't any players here." I think people are just impatient and need a player "right now!" for some reason.
Totally agree with this. Patience is the biggest thing if you are starting out.
Also, there are actually players everywhere (especially in the US). One just has to check some of the more obscure options like a used electronics store (scored a Mitsubishi, M-V7057 for only about $40 just a few months ago) or even pay attention to Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist for a local listing as players do come up every so often (and good players too).
As for software being only available only mail order, I do admit I still buy a few titles here and there on ebay (and probably paying a tad more than I would prefer) but I also have a bunch of used record shops nearby like a Rasputin or Amoeba that I have found a few gems. My most recent purchase was like five titles for $6. Can't beat that on any count :thumbup: |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 12 Jan 2021, 09:59
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Also, there are actually players everywhere (especially in the US). One just has to check some of the more obscure options like a used electronics store (scored a Mitsubishi, M-V7057 for only about $40 just a few months ago) or even pay attention to Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist for a local listing as players do come up every so often (and good players too).
Maybe availability isn't an issue in the US but for a lot of people in the world I would say it is.
I understand that very well which is why I stated "especially in the US".
We are definitely lucky here since the format may still not have done that well in its heyday but it was still the 2nd best market in the world behind Japan.
Anyway, no apology necessary and hope things get cooler @ some point down under :cry: . |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 22 Jan 2021, 23:42
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 23 Jan 2021, 05:02
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So skimming through this topic I gather it is not real AC3 but fake AC3? Media Info is identifying as 384kb or 364kb with 48h and calling it AC3.
Looking at the attachments you had posted before they were removed, I think I now understand why you are so confused about this AC3 coding. Based on what I am seeing, you are trying to capture audio from your LD player and having the encoding software choose what "codec" to encode for recording. In this case, you are utlizing Dolby Digital (AC-3) in a two channel mode and encoding at 384 kilobits per second / 48khz sampling. So that is simply it; you're re-encoding PCM 2.0 audio to lower quality Dolby Digital 2.0. You could actually make (if your program allows it) an exact one for one PCM to PCM copy of the audio from the optical out of the player but you will be using a lot more data to make it work (but it would sound better than DD 2.0)
I do prefer the optical audio over the red and white but some movies don't like the optical audio.
Why would a movie not like the optical audio? That makes no sense.
The reason you are not getting any sound out of the optical out is because you are playing an "analog audio only" LD (which means there is no available PCM track to output on the optical out and thus it will be mute). And when you're trying to capture audio from the L+R outputs, you’ll also notice you’re still encoding in DD 2.0 based on your encoding software. In any case, sound quality with DD 2.0 will be fine for capturing the analog tracks on LD since they are less dynamic vs the PCM tracks. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 30 Jan 2021, 19:31
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The M-V6022 is actually a clone of the CLD-D501. Pretty much the same as a 701 but lacking the digital field memory for CLV special effects playback.
So in that case, the DVL is more full featured and the preferred player to keep.
Regardless, I would not chuck the Mits. See what is really wrong with it as it may not be that serious to correct. If it doesn’t flip, probably a stretch loading belt. In respect to not playing past chapter 8, that means nothing as there can be many or few chapters on a side of a disc; better to just tell us where in “time” the disc gives up playing. I have had a sticky residue issue on a 701’s laser pick-up ribbon cable that gave me playback issues until I cleaned it off.
But obviously, as cplusplus has mentioned, what did you do to make it inoperable? Gotta fix that first. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 06 Feb 2021, 06:58
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Nice job :thumbup:.
Always nice to see it all come together and bring another play up to date for AC3. I still have at least four (or maybe six) more players I plan to get modded for AC3.
Strangely, It didn't work with Q2 and Q3 so I removed them and R2 is directly connected to +5V. So mute input isn't an absolute need : I don't have any noise at all. Maybe other circuit could be better but this one works flawlessly.
I actually used that schematic initially and had the same issue w/ the Q2 and Q3. Not sure if it was me or if the schematic was just plain wrong. I actually liked this design because it is the only known version that is supposed to work for MAL (and come to think of it; my problem was that the board I made based from it gave me a negative voltage on the RCA jack so maybe it does work but I needed an MAL player to test it).
In any case, the Mute signal from what I understand doesn't appear to cause issues most of the time but I did have a problem on a Sony mod that I did w/ the built in AC3-RF Demodulator of which the initial start of a disc side would sometimes give me a loud digital pop and then everything is fine. I think the issue was simply because of the way the AC3-RF board interacted with my particular Demod board. After that, all my other AC3 mods had a good working mute point and I never got the digital pop ever again.
In any case, here is the AC3-RF board schematic that I found to work perfectly for me.
https://i.vgy.me/aR6JaE.gif
It's a bit different in respect that it uses two additional ceramic caps that I believe were intended for noise filtration off of the +5 and -5 volt inputs. This is also only meant for MAH players which is actually fine since most MAL players are only in Europe so I don't have to worry about it hear in the US. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 06 Feb 2021, 23:44
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I concur w/ cplusplus that the CLD-95 would probably be the best from the audio side since this player has the 8x oversampling, 20 bit filters. The video may subjectively not be on par w/ later players but at the same time it's a pure analog output unlike the 703 and above players that have more digital processing.
In addition, if you could find a decent outboard DA Converter that is of the multi bit variety (like the 95), you can pretty much pick any player you like that has an optical and/or coax digital output that you can connect it up to and get the same warmer sound you might be looking for. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 10 Feb 2021, 21:33
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You’ll need an AC3-RF Demodulator or get a Surround Processor that has the AC3-RF Demodulator built in along with an S/PDIF output to connect to your current AV Receiver or Processor. This Surround Processor option can be cheaper (as well as more convenient as a digital input switcher) as not a lot of people think about it as an option.
Currently, I don’t see these models on eBay at this time but they do show up (just have to be patient if you really want one and at a good price).
These are the models to look for....
Sony, SDP-E800
Sony, SDP-EP9ES
Denon, AVD-2000
Also, you can simply get a vintage AV Receiver that had the AC3-RF Demodulator built in but then you’ll end up having to use it in place of your current model which probably has newer technology like HDMI switching and more modern surround codecs. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 14 Feb 2021, 03:25
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Ah, okay. I mean, if I want to get good sound quality from my LD machines I probably should be using SPDIF/TOSLink anyway but it's nice to know I don't *have* to. My current main player is a CLD-D505 from 1996 which I'm sure is plenty modern enough.
You should use both.
Remember, LD discs can have two soundtracks (digital and analog). Toslink only works for the digital tracks so if you played a disc with only analog sound (very common), you won't hear anything.
Also, sound is subjective as well. Sometimes an LD player's left and right audio outputs (sending out the digital track) will sound better if it sports a better or just different sounding D/A converter vs. the one you have in the AV Receiver. I always felt that my CLD-3030 (1988 model) sounds especially amazing for music as I feel there is a more analog warmth to them. However, after Pioneer (and other manufacturers) switched from the multi bit DA converters to the 1 bit direct linear converters around 1991, they just weren't the same. So in most cases when I use my CLD-D701 or later players for digital audio playback, I choose to use the optical out of them and let my AV Receiver do the decoding. |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 21 Feb 2021, 21:21
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Hi,
I had to check in my LD S2 because of a sound problem : there was sound with Toslink out but not with RCA out : after troubleshooting I saw that some fuses (ICP N38) were burnt : 2 fuses for the DAC power supply : now replaced and working again.
That's a nice easy fix. Wonder why it popped in the first place. That usually would be a bad sign of something. However, I have a weird issue w/ my Boston Acoustics subwoofer constantly popping a fuse every time I unplug the power. After replacing the fuse, it's fine again unitl I unplug the power again. :roll:
So I took the opportunity to take a picture of the AC3 RF circuit : it shows where to place it. No need of such big resistors but I took what I had in my stocks.
LDS2 AC3 RF circuit.jpg
And I figured out that Q2 and Q3 on the schematics are already in the LD S2 (check my first picture with red arrow pointing to mute picking signal), that's why they are not needed. ;)
Not sure if that schematics of the LD-S2 with the transistors really mean the mute switch is built into the board. I've never really totally understood how the mute actually works in the circuit but I know every place I soldered a mute wire to should have a switching 5v point (+5v when disc is paused/stopped and 0v is playing).
Anyway, here are a few pics of my board designs....
My first experimental board (on left) next to the BDE board (right)
https://i.vgy.me/dMTWFy.jpg
My second board shrunken down after I perfected the first one
https://i.vgy.me/rzwjAW.jpg
A size comparison of that board w/ the BDE board again.
https://i.vgy.me/TviTxA.jpg |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 22 Feb 2021, 06:35
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Well.... I just spent 7 hours the last two days fixing this exact issue on a CLD-3070. :crazy:
Definitely need more than just the service manual but someone who has done the repair before (thanks cplusplus :) ). Glad I was able to diagnose the issue down to one gear that was gummed up but putting the loading tray back together took up the bulk of my time.
In the end, it probably wasn't worth the time to fix it but I'm happy I learned a lot about repairing these mechanical issues and now have a better understanding of the timing gears. :thumbup: |
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| ldfan |
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Posted: 23 Feb 2021, 08:39
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jakeheke wrote: Im still yet to own let alone watch True Lies  , i think its the first Home Release to have Dolby Digital AC-3?
First would actually be “Clear And Present Danger”. Not sure how much later “True Lies” came out but regardless it’s worth a listen on DD 5.1. |
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Thanks list