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| trixter |
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Posted: 26 Jan 2020, 06:46
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but this information not for public explanation, sorry.
That's ridiculous. If you get hit by a bus tomorrow, your process dies with you. Better to let everyone know so that they can archive their own discs.
You don't have this market cornered; I'm able to produce high quality transfers too. (https://youtu.be/1dtVWr19L8I?t=807 is a sample of some of my work, however youtube compression has ruined some dark murky sections in that specific video because I only uploaded it at 1080p60 instead of 4k60.) Unlike you, I want others to reproduce and improve upon my results, so here's my process:
Pioneer CLD-D606 -> Y/C -> Blackmagic Intensity Pro -> 10-bit 4:2:2 .AVI. This is done using the Media Express software and software version 10.11.4 (Windows), a combination that produces perfect sync. (Later versions have issues with sync drift, loss of video sync, or both.) I capture everything at 0 IRE so that I have more flexibility in post (and also because I've caught some laserdiscs mixing 0 IRE and 7.5 IRE content, mainly music videos that have paintbox effects).
Depending on the source material, I sometimes choose to eliminate noise introduced by the capture process by capturing the same material 3+ times, then if all captures are frame-accurate, I'll combine them by overlaying them in Premiere and averaging them using Linear Dodge (add). Think of this as a video version of "oversampling". (This is a tremendous help with VHS sources too, but capture of longer sources almost never line up exactly even when using a line TBC feeding into a Frame TBC (all it takes is one delayed field to throw things off), so there aren't always opportunities to use this technique with VHS.)
I then bring the footage into Premiere Pro and correct black and white levels (capturing 10-bit allows this without clipping during the original capture or during processing), and use NeatVideo (carefully and judiciously!!) for noise reduction and fixing dropouts/rot. If the audio needs some repair, I export the final audio and process it with izotope RX, then import it back into Premiere and use that for the audio. All video processing is done internally 32-bit. Noise reduction occurs before level correction in the filter chain. I then export 10-bit again. All of this takes place in the interlaced domain.
For final output and deinterlacing, I use avisynth with QTGMC for deinterlacing (I use different settings for different sources, but the quick answer is that I use preset "very slow" for sources with a hint of noise still left in them, and SourceMatch/Lossless settings for anything where I was able to remove most of the noise previously). If needed, nnedi3_rpow2 + spline36resize for upscaling after the deinterlacing stage. Finally, the avisynth script is fed into FFMPEG for h.264 or h.265 encoding.
The entire path, from capture(1) to edit to export to avisynth to ffmpeg to final output compressed files, is 10-bit. It took me a long time to get avisynth verified working with 10-bit colorspaces(2) but the end result is definitely better viewing on my OLED TV than when I was doing everything 8-bit.
(1)The Pioneer uses an 8-bit digital TBC but I still capture in 10-bit for the headroom.
(2)hint: Use ffmpegsource for import, as avisource converts everything to 8-bit... another hint, use avisynth+ which supports YUV422P10 colorspaces) |
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| trixter |
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Posted: 26 Jan 2020, 21:18
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Gosh, this is technical. I've never used Avisynth, so I'm going to have to look all this up. It looks complicated.
It is, but here's a primer: http://macilatthefront.blogspot.com/2018/09/tutorial-4-sd-to-hd-revisited.html
1. What is this blur? Is that just an artifact from working with such an old format?
It's a common artifact of high-contrast transitions that occur horizontally; it's an artifact of analog video. One longer explanation of this is in the Video Essentials laserdisc tutorial material, IIRC. It affects both luma and chroma, which is why you can see this kind of blurring sometimes in the NTSC SMPTE color bars test pattern even though the luma is constant in those transition areas.
I think that artifact is in the source material. It was definitely not introduced by my software process, although it's possible it might have been exasperated during the capture process.
2. Is this a levels thing? Can you explain what this means?
Analog video goes from 0 to 100 IRE. For North American NTSC broadcasts, 7.5 IRE is considered the displayable level of black; for Japan, they used 0 IRE. When I started capturing laserdisc, I used to capture with 7.5 IRE as the black level, but I found that mixed-content discs (like Mind's Eye, and some documentaries) would mix these standards and the 0 IRE content would have severely clipped blacks. So, I now don't assume anything, and capture with 0 IRE so that I can adjust it later using the waveform monitor display in Premiere, sometimes clip by clip if necessary. Even if the disc is mastered properly and correctly, I still do this, just because I want fine control over the black level.
100 IRE is too intense and caused blooming for large areas of white on older sets, so the general NTSC standard for white is 80 IRE.
The final output of my adjustments translate black->100 IRE as 0-1024 RGB (1024 being the highest value in a 10-bit colorspace). Some people argue that 80 IRE should be used as "full white" but I have seem clipping and loss of detail when I do that, so I follow the standard. As a result, sometimes the output is a hair dimmer than what people are expecting, but at least nothing clips. Until I have an HDR process, allowing 100 IRE material to be "whiter than white" is not feasible for me. I have an OLED that can do HDR and DolbyVision, but Premiere Pro's HDR workflow still leaves a lot to be desired, sadly.
3. I realize you are saying 10-bit is great, and as an editor myself, you are absolutely right. However, I don't want to spend more money than I already have on this. Do you think my Elgato Game Capture HD would suffice? I think that only does 8-bit 4:2:0.
No. See next answer:
4. If I do want to upgrade in the future, is this older version of the Blackmagic Intensity Pro still 10 bit? https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B001CN9GEA/ref=nav_timeline_asin?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
That is exactly the hardware I'm using. It works on an i7-8700k system with two GTX 1080 ti cards, taking up the third and last slot on the motherboard. With the correct older version of the software, I've had no issues, although it took some adjustment to handle 486 total lines instead of 480 (I just crop the two 2 and bottom 4 in the final avisynth output stage). |
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| trixter |
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Posted: 02 Feb 2020, 00:36
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BTW, as an example of how discs with laser rot can be partially recovered, here's a fairly rotted disc (8" The Motels):
https://i.imgur.com/1QShIdE.png
...and here's what (careful!) NeatVideo processing in Premiere can do to recover it:
https://i.imgur.com/ZjqSk5Y.png
The primary purpose of NeatVideo is to remove noise, but the artifact removal and dust/scratches removal can do a great job with laser rot if you don't over-apply them (over-application starts to remove fine detail). |
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| trixter |
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Posted: 09 Feb 2020, 05:04
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Do me favor - discuss your technical questions in PM, nothing personal.
That's the very definition of "personal".
If this thread is specifically about " mclaus projects only Laserdisc digitalization and restoration", then you should change the title of the thread. The title of the thread suggests that it is a discussion about all Laserdisc transfers and restoration, and technical details are part of that discussion.
How do you interpret the footage in Premiere (or in my case, After Effects)? Upper field first, lower field first, or off so it shows both fields at once? Do you use any pull down settings?
The 525i30 footage captured from the BMIP is lower-field-first.
Pulldown settings are for turning telecined film footage back into 24p, but only use this for material you are 100% sure is only film. Some music videos have film elements with video effects or transitions, so pulldown isn't appropriate for those.
BTW, I wouldn't try to use After Effects as a video editor. If you're working with footage > 10 minutes long, it should be in Premiere. |
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| trixter |
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Posted: 15 Feb 2020, 21:04
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This thread was started to discuss general techniques for archiving and restoring failing laserdiscs, namely:
Analog sampling of video and audio
Digital sampling of audio from laserdisc
Post-processing techniques for cleaning up audio and video (laserdisc rot, proper deinterlacing methods, etc.)
I'll start with my process:
Pioneer CLD-D606 -> Y/C -> Blackmagic Intensity Pro -> 10-bit 4:2:2 .AVI. This is done using the Media Express software and software version 10.11.4 (Windows), a combination that produces perfect sync. (Later versions have issues with sync drift, loss of video sync, or both.) I capture everything at 0 IRE so that I have more flexibility in post (and also because I've caught some laserdiscs mixing 0 IRE and 7.5 IRE content, mainly music videos that have paintbox effects).
Depending on the source material, I sometimes choose to eliminate noise introduced by the capture process by capturing the same material 3+ times, then if all captures are frame-accurate, I'll combine them by overlaying them in Premiere and averaging them using the Blend effect. Think of this as a video version of "oversampling". (This is a tremendous help with VHS sources too, but capture of longer sources almost never line up exactly even when using a line TBC feeding into a Frame TBC (all it takes is one delayed field to throw things off), so there aren't always opportunities to use this technique with VHS.)
I then bring the footage into Premiere Pro and correct black and white levels (capturing 10-bit allows this without clipping during the original capture or during processing), and use NeatVideo (carefully and judiciously!!) for noise reduction and fixing dropouts/rot. If the audio needs some repair, I export the final audio and process it with izotope RX, then import it back into Premiere and use that for the audio. All video processing is done internally 32-bit. Noise reduction occurs before level correction in the filter chain. I then export 10-bit again. All of this takes place in the interlaced domain.
For final output and deinterlacing, I use avisynth with QTGMC for deinterlacing (I use different settings for different sources, but the quick answer is that I use preset "very slow" for sources with a hint of noise still left in them, and SourceMatch/Lossless settings for anything where I was able to remove most of the noise previously). If needed, nnedi3_rpow2 + spline36resize for upscaling after the deinterlacing stage. Finally, the avisynth script is fed into FFMPEG for h.264 or h.265 encoding.
The entire path, from capture(1) to edit to export to avisynth to ffmpeg to final output compressed files, is 10-bit. It took me a long time to get avisynth verified working with 10-bit colorspaces(2) but the end result is definitely better viewing on my OLED TV than when I was doing everything 8-bit.
For especially noisy footage, or for being paranoid about the capture process introducing noise, I will sometimes capture the same footage 3 or more times, and combine them in Premiere using the Linear Dodge (add) compositing method, with the opacity % set to 100/N where N is the number of captures I'm combining. This only works if every capture is exactly frame-perfect, so inspection is necessary to ensure every frame is lining up. The end result effectively averages out all transient noise, leaving only the signal.
One sample result of all these processes: https://youtu.be/1dtVWr19L8I?t=807
The use of NeatVideo's artifact removal and dust/scratches removal can be beneficial in cleaning up laser rot -- but only if you don't over-apply them, since over-application can remove fine detail in the picture you want to preserve. Here's a badly rotted disc (The Motels, 8"):
https://i.imgur.com/1QShIdE.png
...and here's what (careful!) NeatVideo processing in Premiere can do to recover it:
https://i.imgur.com/ZjqSk5Y.png
(1)The Pioneer uses an 8-bit digital TBC but I still capture in 10-bit for the headroom.
(2)hint: Use ffmpegsource for import, as avisource converts everything to 8-bit... another hint, use avisynth+ which supports YUV422P10 colorspaces) |
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| trixter |
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Posted: 02 Mar 2020, 00:04
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I don't know what version of avisynth+ that is; I'm using 20190829 r29xx (you have to get it from github, https://github.com/pinterf/AviSynthPlus/tree/MT I think). As for ffaudiosource/ffvideosource, I'm using FFMS2_2.23.1_MSVC_FFMPEG_4.2.2, also from github: https://github.com/FFMS/ffms2/releases
Here's what my scripts look like:
# FFMS is the only loader guaranteed to pass through 10- to 16-bit footage:
X = "computer dreams finished.avi"
A = FFAudioSource(X)
V = FFVideoSource(X)
AudioDub(V, A)
# produces YUV422P10 after loading v210 input
To start troubleshooting, do only the above, then info(), and see what colorspace is reported.
Keep in mind that avisynth troubleshooting is beyond the scope of this specific thread; there are years of threads about that over at doom9.org if you need targeted help. |
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| trixter |
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Posted: 25 Apr 2020, 18:49
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| (It's actually stored as RF.) Because my player has some light post-processing that only has benefits on the s-video port. |
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