|
It is currently 16 Feb 2026, 09:02
|
View unsolved topics | View unanswered posts
| Author |
Message |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| disclord |
|
Posted: 07 Mar 2013, 01:23
|
|
|
I thought members of the LDDB might enjoy reading the very first-ever magazine review of a Videodisc player, the Magnavox Magnavision 8000. The review was published in The Videophile Newsletter and trumped all other A/V magazines by 6 to 8 months. --–---– Magnavox Magnavision Model 8000 DiscoVision Videodisc Player Review The Videophile #18, March/April 1979 By Marcus F. Wielage http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q211/Love_My_Logics/null_zps0014583f.jpg
We think some background is necessary to let all of you know the lengths we had to go to in order to secure a Magnavision player for our staff to review. Way back in early December of last year, we called Bob Jones, PR Director of Magnavox's head office in Ft. Wayne, Indiana, who promised to send us a press kit containing photos, technical information, and a catalogue of all currently available MCA discs. After a month went by with neither hide nor hair of the info turning up, we again called Mr. Jones, who "had no idea what caused the delay," and again promised to furnish us with information as soon as possible. We also asked if we'd be able to view the player at the then-upcoming CES in Las Vegas, to which Mr. Jones replied with a weary sigh that, since Magnavox would not have a booth at the show, they would not be displaying Magnavision there either, not even at a private suite for their dealers and members of the press. After we expressed surprise, if not total astonishment, that his firm was inept and bungling enough to totally ignore the largest and best-attended (50,000+) electronics convention mere weeks after the triumphant introduction of the player in Atlanta, we were put on "hold" and forgotten about. After we called back and again posed the question to Mr. Jones, we were again put on hold and later were told that he'd call us back with further information. We're still waiting for that call (and the PR kit, too).
Though it would appear that Magnavox could care less about any videophile's (as well as THE VIDEOPHILE's) interest in their firm's products, we tried to avoid letting this get to us. Undaunted, we continued our Quest for the Holy Disc Player at the CES, where it was, sure enough, conspicuous by its absence. It was at this point that we began to wonder if we'd ever get to see one, and even if the legendary machines existed at all. But, lo and behold, when we least expected it, local video store Audio/Video Craft managed to get one in (for display purposes only) and, through the courtesy of their sales manager, Carl Vickery, we were able to examine the unit in-depth and file this report... no thanks at all to our friends at Magnavox.
APPEARANCE
The sleek, low-profiled device (22" x 16" x 6") is encased in a rigid black and silver colored plastic cabinet and has a gleaming futuristic appearance that would almost make it more at home in the Jetson's living room that ours in 1979. Its styling is equivalent to the most advanced audio components and it is light-weight enough (35 pounds) to fit comfortably on any living room stand or shelf.
We found the Magnavision player to be almost child's play as far as installation goes, requiring the usual single cable between it and the set for standard viewing. Unlike the normal 75 ohm cable supplied with home videotape recorders, however, Magnavox uses a peculiar adaptor box/cable set-up which we found to be somewhat more difficult to hook up. Near the RF Out jack is a small switch to select between a channel 3 or channel 4 output. Direct audio/video outputs are available in the two RCA phono jacks for stereo audio output, providing easy connection to video monitors, large-screen sets, and (ahem) what-have-you. We note that the discs revolved by means of the center hub, not by the nonmoving platter, unlike all standard audio turntables.
FEATURES
As shown on the facing page, (select the "1979 one-sheet" link above) there are a total of 15 knobs, buttons, and dials on the Magnavision player, almost twice as many as any competing home videotape deck and surely enough to satisfy most of the chronic button-pushers among us. Everything is clearly labeled and intelligently laid out and we're sure that almost anyone will have no trouble figuring out all the functions with a minimum of trial and error.
From right to left, the controls are as follows: Index, which pops in a small multi-digit number display in the upper left of the picture, indicating the location of the scene being viewed (similar to professional SMPTE Time Code displays in big-time editing equipment); Search Forward and Reverse, which allows you to scan an entire disc in a matter of 30 seconds, with or without the index numbers visible for easy scene-finding; Sound 1 and 2, used to select which channels you want to come out of your set's or stereo system's speakers; Fast Forward, which speeds up the picture 3 times normal forward speed; Normal Play Forward and Reverse, for regular speed playback in either direction; Slow Forward and Reverse, which allows you to continuously change the speed from almost still-frame to standard speed by means of the Variable Speed Control sliding knobs; Still Forward and Reverse, advancing the picture a frame at a time in either direction, one frame for each time the button is depressed, and the Power On/Off button.
All of the controls have tiny red indicator lights located immediately above them to show when they are in use. Also, all of the buttons (except the Variable Speed knob) are of the light-touch solenoid type, a welcome relief from the mechanical piano-type levers used in almost all home videotape decks. All modes are instantly switchable from one to another, but the sound is heard only in the Normal Play Forward mode.
Since the controls are fully electronic, we wonder if remote control might be possible for the players; apparently it could be done, but it may require more time and effort that would be worth to attempt it. If we're able to get a maintenance manual for the 8000 and figure it out, we'll let you know.
OPERATION
To load a disc into the player, you pop up the lid by means of the top left sliding lever, a mechanical switch that releases the lid's catch. The lid seemed a bit difficult to open up at first, not unlike a car's engine hood, but with some practice you can get used to it. You next drop a video disc down over the round center post, similar to dropping a 45 record on an audio turntable, and then close the lid. It's at this point that you turn the power on (not before, according to the instruction manual) and, after a brief warm-up of 20 seconds or so, the player will be up to speed and an image will appear on the screen. We judged this feature not particularly desirable, being reminiscent of Kenner's "Close 'N Play" toy turntable (a well known state-of-the-art audiophile product); we'd rather initiate the play mode ourselves, as with practically all other audio and video playback devices currently available. [The lid is designed to keep curious little fingers away from the rapidly rotating disc (1800 rpm), but it would be nice to initiate "play" whenever you choose.--Ed.]
After the Search mode is used, the player will return to the mode used right before search was initiated; after Fast-Forward it reverts to a still-frame. With only a few minutes of practice, one can easily juggle the controls around resulting in some fairly dazzling and often comical effects, such as "exploding" and then "imploding" a space-ship from Galactica. In either Search or Fast Forward, the images on the screen are fairly locked and stable, looking something like a fast-motion scene in a feature film. Slow motion, too, is generally of good quality though the Variable Speed control has to be adjusted carefully to avoid a kind of "jumpiness" in the picture; also, the slow motion in reverse isn't nearly as smooth looking as it is in forward. Occasionally, the still-frame will flicker a bit on the screen, though this can be quickly corrected by advancing once more to the next frame, which should be perfectly stable (and superior to any 1/2" or 3/4" tape still frames we've ever seen). We understand that discs containing a great deal of single-frame material will have two or three redundant frames to compensate tor this occasional difficulty.
We found the Index and Search features to be of particular interest, since they are by far the most accurate cueing system ever offered in a home video player--much more accurate than, say, Sony's RM-300 Betamax Random-Access unit. The frame numbers are derived from information encoded in the vertical interval area of the video, located right outside the picture track area. These numbers are permanently recorded on the disc, unlike the mechanical counters on tape machines which are prone to inaccuracy due to the slipping of belts.
We noted that the Still and Slow-motion features can be used only with the Standard Play (30 minutes a side) discs. The longer Extended Play (60 minutes a side) discs contain more than one frame for each revolution, making it too difficult for the video and servo electronics to "decide" which frame to still; hence, the still and slo-mo controls are inactive with these discs. Also, Standard Play discs have each of their 54,000 frames encoded with the index numbers mentioned above, where EP's display only elapsed time in minutes and seconds. At the current time, most of the discs released (except Animal House) are of Standard Play type, so while that means you will have to change them every half hour or so, it also means you'll be able to play them in a variety of different ways.
Changing discs is relatively fast and easy--you turn off the power, wait a few seconds for the hub to stop turning, and depress the lid-release lever. A few seconds later the lid will click and you can open it as explained earlier.
TECHNICAL DESCRIPTION
I'm sorely tempted at this point to simply say that the Phillips/MCA video disc player works by sheer sorcery--but that would be the easy way. At the risk of putting everyone to sleep, here goes...
To summarize the information we've received: "MCA DiscoVision is a system which records audio-video information on a disc, replicates [duplicates] this disc accurately and inexpensively on plastic and finally plays the replicas on any standard television receiver, monitor or video projector by means of a disc player. The production of a video record begins with a mastering process where the original program from any video source is recorded in real time as a geometrical pattern on the master disc. After mastering, this pattern is reproduced in the various replication steps leading to the production of multiple inexpensive plastic video records. Specifically, the mastering process uses a laser beam to cut the holes in the coating of a master disc and thereby records information. After processing, this master is used to produce replica playback discs. The player reads the information on the playback disc by sensing the reflection of a low-powered laser beam and recreating an electrical signal corresponding to the original information. This signal is then used to modulate an RF carrier on a monitor or on an unused TV channel of a TV receiver. This modulated signal is connected to the receiver where it is processed within the receiver in the usual manner to produce a color picture and sound."
Like I said--magic. In the consumer player, the disc is read from underneath, from the inside (closest to the label) to the outer edge of the disc, exactly the opposite of a normal audio disc. Also, either videotape or film can be used as program source material, transferred by laser to the master disc in real (actual) time.
Mass-produced discs are replicated by injection molding, very simflar to audio discs, but with an added metal reflective layer and plastic scuff coating. Although all MCA video discs can be freely handled and touched without harm, the instruction manual advises to keep excess handling to a minimum.
Since there is no physical contact with the disc--only a light beam bouncing off the disc's surface--the system can be held in stop motion for as long as you wish without any harm whatsoever (unless you happen to be watching the Rocky Horror Picture Show). The discs will last virtually forever, barring any intentional damage from being tap-danced on or otherwise broken in half.
None of MCA's discs are encoded with any Stop-Copy/Copy Guard-type systems. Reasons that come to mind for this being so are the fact that the anticopying Systems aren't perfect and tend to screw up people's pictures, plus the fact that the video disc player incorporates Time-Base Corrector circuitry (as shown in this block diagram), which would probably defeat any such sytem even if one had been used.
IMAGE QUALITY
As I testified under oath in court recently, the MCA/Phillips player puts out a better picture than any home videotape I've ever seen, and is almost equal to U-Matic players as far as audio and video specifications go. It's better than either in terms of features, ease of use, and program access time. Audio quality, too, is nothing short of superb and easily equals commercially available audio discs and comes close to the best direct-discs and master tapes.
Unlike the product of most prerecorded videotape companies (Magnetic Video, et al), the film transfers done for MCA's discs are extremely well done, using some of the finest quality 35mm prints we've ever seen. Battlestar Galactica, for example (reviewed elsewhere herein,) looks better on a disc than it ever has on ABC's west coast network broadcasts.
Now this isn't to say that the video disc or player is perfect--close, but not quite. Occasionally we noticed a few small "scratch"-like horizontal lines here and there, or a band of color appearing in certain scenes, but this may have been a function more of the initial videotape transfer than of the disc itself. As a matter of fact, the limiting factor here may well be the tape transfer. MCA might be better off transferring the films directly to masters because, even though the 2" helical IVC 9000 recorders they're using are about the best available, surely they will still add some noise of their own. Then there's also the matter of the 30-minute-a-side disc to contend with, which some claim to be a disturbing feature.
We were very disturbed to find that there are no sample discs included with the Magnavision players--a particularly thoughtless omission, in our opnion. MCA would be wise to prepare some cheap, floppy-type sampler discs which show cips from all the Universal features available at their friendly neighborhood stores. Surely the cost of such a sampler disc would be minimal, and the PR value would be tremendous. Another idea would be to include a "play me first" disc that would explain the player's many features and offer operational tips.
At any rate, as it is, Magnavox's player does its job well, and in the home video market it's nothing short of dynamite. We're simply flabbergasted and amazed with it. If there's any product that belongs in the home of every VIDEOPHILE reader, the MCA video disc player is it.
We must admit that if there were another company offering an MCA-type disc machine, we'd probably be more inclined to plug them, in view of the "couldn't care less" attitude from Magnavox. As it is, rumors of a consumer disc player from Pioneer continue to abound, and I, for one, would be happier with a product from that company than from Magnavox, if only because of their fine reputation as a leading mass-market high-fi manufacturer; and then, some hard-core videophiles will probably not rest until they own the much more advanced industrial video disc player from Universal/Pioneer (reported on next).
Until that time, most, if not all, of the folks around here have already got a space reserved on our shelves for a Magnavision player, if they ever come to LA... someday. |
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| disclord |
|
Posted: 08 Mar 2013, 21:41
|
|
|
Very cool to read.
This also confirms what publius has said previously about MCA using the IVC 9000 VTR for the master source for most transfers. When did they make the move from that to 1" Type C?
1-inch C-format got its start on some of the final CAV film releases but didn't start getting used on a regular basis until late 1980 when Discovision Associates started reissuing their previous CAV discs in the CLV Extended Play format. You can see it happening too because the 1-inch C titles are edited together dupes of the IVC-9000 masters and don't have the resolution or sharpness of the originals. The new CAV releases, such as The Last Married Couple In America, are also softer than their IVC counterparts. The IVC-9000 format could be duplicated 10 or more generations with no visible losses while the C-Format - although an excellent VTR format - showed minor loses (which manifested themselves as a slightly softer image and ringing at the left side of the image) after only one generation of copying. It's one of the reasons the CLV Extended Play DiscoVision titles look so bad.
From talking to Discovision mastering engineers, I found that the major reason for the switch to C-Format was due to the incompatibility of the IVC-9000 format (only 35 IVC-9000 VTR's were ever made and it was so well engineered and sophisticated that its R & D and production bankrupted the IVC company) with other mastering houses that they were using for some of the industrial and consumer releases; due to defect rates, equipment problems and downtime, Discovision had more work than they could keep up with, so they contracted out to other companies to do some of the more straightforward film-to-video transfers - sometimes only a few reels of a film were transferred by a contract company with Discovision doing the rest and other times an entire film was done. Due to its VERY high price and limited avability, the IVC-9000 was not used by the vast majority of mastering houses, so the 1-inch C-Format became DiscoVision's new standard for film mastering and disc master tapes. While not as high quality as the IVC-9000 format, the C-Format was nevertheless an excellent VTR system and thus stayed the standard for LaserDisc mastering until the introduction of the 4:2:2 D1 and NTSC D2 digital VTR formats. An interesting side-note is that the LaserDisc format's carrier frequency allocations and bandwidth are almost exact duplicates of the C-Format, making LaserDisc the only consumer format at the time to provide consumers with video quality equal to a professional format.
Anyway, by the time the C-Format VTR was introduced as an LD mastering format, Discovision Associates was using the DRAW (Direct Read After Write) 'Master V' system that could produce even better quality discs, since the quality of the master was known at all times due to the instant read back capability - unfortunately, Discovision's use of multi-generational dubs of C-Format masters reduced any quality gains the Master V DRAW system allowed. You can see this on some discs that were mastered many times, with each mastering using a different generation dupe of the original master. The DiscoVision release of ABBA is an excellent example - Blam-1 and I have documented more than 15 different masterings - frame and chapter numbers are added during a duplication stage so any changes to either require a new duplicated tape - with ABBA, each mastering has different end frame numbers and the chapters for each video start at different times with the frame/chapter numbers differing between masters. Some of the discs are obviously well down on the videotape generation chain, with soft video, noisy,,smeared chroma and major ringing around sharp, high contrast edges as well as the ringing lines running down the left side of the screen - they are basically the C-For,at equivalent of VHS head switching noise that indicates how many dubs have been made prior to that copy.
I will post a follow up on the Magnavision review that the Videophile Newsletter did that detailed the problems they were having with defective discs and the new CLV discs.
I hope everyone is finding these looks back at the launch of the LaserDisc format interesting. While DVD and BD have had some problems with their launches and first years on the market, they are awesome successes compared to what we went through with LaserDisc. LD had massive player and disc defect rates (MCA DiscoVision had a 90% defect rate from the 1978 launch until early 1980. IBM bought 50% of the company the previous September and thanks to their experience in manufacturing precision computer chips, IBM implemented total class-100 clean-room conditions and the defect rate dropped to about 45%. when Pioneer took over the Carson, CA plant, their defective discs dropped to less than 20% while Kofu, Japan had a 2-5% defect rate right from the start) Not to mention incorrect versions of prints used, reversed stereo channels, major transfer errors like Lawerence Of Arabia's first LaserDisc release that not only had the film flipped left for right in one portion but had day for night shots transferred incorrectly. And mono versions of stereo films, etc... It is a wonder the format made it at all. |
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| signofzeta |
|
Posted: 05 Nov 2015, 06:01
|
|
|
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| krbahr |
|
Posted: 23 Jun 2018, 23:40
|
|
|
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| admin |
|
Posted: 24 Jul 2018, 10:45
|
|
|
Can somebody tell me if there is a replacement for the part number PEB1013 or the actual size?
Thanks to Kurtis, we can more easily look up for replacement parts (or good contenders) with:
http://manuals.lddb.com/LD_Players/PRB_Belt_XRef-extract.pdf (I extracted only the pages relevant to LD Players)
You can lookup for PEB1013 , but sadly on this one there is a typo and they entered PE 8 1013 .
Standard ref gives the same result SCQ4.3 which is a Square Cut Rubber belt
Julien |
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| admin |
|
Posted: 29 Jun 2020, 16:23
|
|
|
sonicboom wrote: Is there a way to turn this off?
Yes, by submitting the missing mint marks of course! 
I've seen a LOT more updates with mint marks since I pushed this update, it's working I think!
Julien |
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| staffanu |
|
Posted: 16 Jan 2021, 18:52
|
|
|
Last spring me and a friend bought three broken Philips laserdisc players from the early eighties: two VLP-600 and one VLP-700. These players are very similar to the Magnavox VH8000, the first commercial player in North America. It took a while but after combining parts we finally got two players back in fully working order!
http://madeye.org/vlp600/IMG_20200712_174509-512.jpg http://madeye.org/vlp600/20200926_193945-512.jpg
This has been a really fun project, and we have been working on it on and off since we got the players. Initially we did troubleshooting just as for any other broken electronics, but realized after a while that we had to understand a bit more in order to fix the broken mirrors and also to adjust the laser.
The these players are PAL only, and have no digital audio support. Initially we could only test with the French dubbed version of Titanic, which has no analog sound track. It was also CLV so we could not test the trick features. It took some searching to find a disc with PAL, CAV, and analog sound, but fortunately the excellent marketplace at lddb made it easy to find!
We have written detailed summary of the repair at http://madeye.org/vlp600/ .
For a full demo the working player see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G75mXibxwfY |
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| admin |
|
Posted: 04 Feb 2022, 15:42
|
|
|
laserfanhld-gb wrote: The second one I’ve never seen the like of before!
That's the best I could find. No specific name.
Attachment: SONY-TV.jpg
Attachment: SONY-TV2.jpg
Julien |
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| cplusplus |
|
Posted: 23 Apr 2022, 03:53
|
|
|
The first step where you will need a LD is step #7 "Crosstalk and tilt offset adjustment". Frame #115 is the same across GGV1016 and GGV1003 (as referenced in the SM) and GGV1069. If VR607 is reachable with GGV1016 loaded, you are all set. If not, I would put the tray back in and just eject, adjust, check and repeat until 115 looks good.
For steps 8, 9, 10: #15,000 is referenced and is the same across the discs.
11, 12, 13: These are all above the disc, so you're good to go.
I just realized most 8" are probably CLV, and you really need CAV. It might be better just to throw that idea out the window and just work with the minor hassle of having to eject between adjusting. If anything, GGV1016 is better than GGV1069 because you have another vertical bar (115) much further down the disc all the way at 46795. Both should look perfect. Make sure your display settings are the worst possible (i.e. sharpness all the way up, all NR off, etc). Check the inverse as well which is a few frames before/after. This is the type of stuff SM's do not mention. |
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| atsampson |
|
Posted: 01 Mar 2023, 02:34
|
|
|
LaserDisc digital audio works just like CD audio - it occupies the lowest 1.75 MHz or so of the frequency spectrum on the disc. The analogue audio channels and the video are encoded using frequency modulation onto carriers at different frequencies (just like FM radio stations), with two narrow frequency bands for the audio channels and a very wide one for the video. On PAL discs, the analogue audio carriers are within the same frequency range that CD audio uses, so you can't have both at the same time; on NTSC discs, they don't overlap so you can have both.
But why? The answer is in the paper Digital Audio Modulation in the PAL and NTSC Optical Video Disk Coding Formats - see figure 3. The video channel is placed at the highest frequencies possible on the disc, working downwards - it has to start a bit lower for PAL than for NTSC (presumably because a CAV PAL disc is spinning slower). Because of the characteristics of the video signal - it includes a strong component at the colour subcarrier frequency - the modulation process also generates a band of interference (the "second sideband" in the text) at the frequency of the video carrier minus twice the colour subcarrier frequency, which would interfere with the audio channels. So the audio channel frequencies had to be chosen not to overlap with the video signal or the unwanted sideband - and there's not a lot of space left with PAL, so they end up being below 1 Mhz there.
So they didn't reserve frequency space for future expansion in the original design - they just made the best use of the space they had, and it happened that that left the lower 2 MHz reasonably clear for NTSC. |
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| happycube |
|
Posted: 03 Mar 2023, 05:59
|
|
|
In fact, Laserdisc was the *only* consumer video format that used unaltered composite video, which skipped a good bit of processing circuitry. CED remodulated it to 1.5ish mhz, and VHS/Beta were 'color under' formats which broke out the chroma as a 600khz signal.
CD audio just happened to be smoosh-able into unused-for-video LD bandwidth, so Philips ran with it :) |
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| ldfan |
|
Posted: 12 Jun 2023, 22:33
|
|
|
| In addition to what others have said, many films will have a combined open matte + pan & scan when a film was released for home video in the age of the CRT TV. T2 and Robocop are good examples of this. The only one movie I recall is a straight open matte from the widescreen is Rain Man and I literally went through the entire movie to check every scene. Regardless, I still prefer the widescreen because that is usually what the director intended for us to watch (but not always). |
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| mrrom92 |
|
Posted: 27 Jul 2023, 19:39
|
|
|
Manufacturing new laserdiscs may not be as impossible as previously believed… to an extent…
Yes, the old manufacturing lines are long gone and we will never see anyone injection molding and bonding new 12” discs as we commonly know them…
BUT. Don’t forget about the 5” CD-Video format! Yes, I know. Limited to 20 minutes of audio/5 minutes of video. But could still result in something cool and collectible despite those limitations, in the right context…
Although not many specifics regarding their manufacture is publicly known, we do know they were conventionally manufactured on otherwise normal CD pressing lines. The LBR obviously was modulated in a very specific way so as to write pits and lands modulated for FM video signals. But in all other respects, they were produced as absolutely normal CDs.
This gets me thinking - what if some of the old LBRs are still in use at some manufacturing facilities? What if newer LBRs still have the means to be modulated in a similar manner if fed with the appropriate signals?
Getting new glass masters made might just be a case of establishing contact with the right individuals at the right facilities. Difficult? Yes. Technically impossible in 2023? Possibly not. After that, it follows the same photochemical, galvanic and mold injecting processes just as any other CD. I think manufacturing a run of let’s say, 500-1000 or so discs for collectors may not be out of the question.
This leads me to the question of… which plants actually manufactured them back in the day? I know there were mostly discs out of PDO UK, many from (unidentified) Japanese plants, and even some from PDO in West Germany.
There may be some individuals left at these facilities who have familiarity with the format and may know the exact processes of how they were originally glass mastered. I tried tracing the history of the PDO plant in Blackburn, which appears to have been sold several times over the years. Ultimately to EDC but unfortunately closed in 2009. So any institutional knowledge that may have been there is unfortunately lost now. But what of the other plants?
With the collective knowledge and will of the LD community, could we actually make something like this happen? |
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| rein-o |
|
Posted: 29 Sep 2023, 00:22
|
|
|
There are a bunch of M holders out there, some are 3d printed and may or may not be great, I don't have any players but have heard stuff so be careful on those.
I think if you have the one issue you may need to move the worm gear back to get the laser back into position? I have read posts about that, so make sure that is your issues before you try it and fix it. I'm no tech just trying to remember what I've read. Good luck.
Edit: I don't have any players that use M-holders :oops: I have LD players :ugeek: |
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| signofzeta |
|
Posted: 29 Sep 2023, 15:26
|
|
|
| Manhattan was one of my first discs. The moiré on that one guy’s suit during one scene is amazingly extreme on some setups but overall it’s very crisp for something so letterboxed it’s missing half its resolution. It’s also one of WA’s best movies, maybe even his best. |
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| rein-o |
|
Posted: 29 Sep 2023, 16:44
|
|
|
chrisw6atv wrote: My latest Laser Disc (in late September 2023) is Manhattan. I decided I should have it because it is the first letterboxed/widescreen Laser Disc released,
Maybe in the USA. |
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| admin |
|
Posted: 01 Oct 2023, 05:16
|
|
|
Based on the data we have right now, Japan got letterboxed releases as early as 1982?
(Japan/LD/Released in 1982) https://www.lddb.com/search.php?adv_search=%2A&format=ld&release_op=same&release=1982&country=4&picture=2&format=ld&sort=date,asc
Eclipse, L' (1962) [FY023-34DT] (May '82) Pied Piper, The (1972) [FY026-26VC] (Jun '82) Last Concert, The (1976) [FY036-24HD] (Oct '82)
1.5 year before the first letterboxed home video release of Amarcord (1974) [RCA 00904] on CED in the USA, and 2.5 years before Manhattan (1979) [ML100469] .
Julien |
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| rein-o |
|
Posted: 01 Oct 2023, 15:38
|
|
|
| Those are some classic films, no matter who released the first widescreen I'm glad people got a clue and embraced this important issue on home theater formats. |
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| signofzeta |
|
Posted: 02 Oct 2023, 15:42
|
|
|
DD is really more of an archive tool. It’s the tunneling electron microscope of capture systems. It’s a PITA for most people and absolutely not worth the hassle in most cases. It was created to archive legitimately rare or one of a kind discs. It’s not for punters.
If what you have is truly special and you want to saved for all eternity for the betterment of man, then go with the DD. If there are three copies of what you have on eBay right now and two versions on YouTube then just use whatever. |
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| signofzeta |
|
Posted: 02 Oct 2023, 15:50
|
|
|
Unlikely. They cost more than $10 when they were mass produced by the thousands decades ago. JDM CDVs were ¥2500. If the format is reborn it will only be because someone spent thousands doing it for even more of a loss than Phillips experienced.
I’d be the first to stand in line if the line ever ends up forming which I very much doubt. |
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| laserfanhld-gb |
|
Posted: 04 Oct 2023, 09:08
|
|
|
| Thanks for starting an interesting post. I haven’t ever seen this particular Genesis LD which I note dates from 1984, I’m just wondering due to its vintage if a comparison based on a more modern transfer e.g. The Way We Walk in Concert, a 1993 release would highlight the differences especially in video qualities somewhat better? Also another interesting one although from 1987 is the (Japan Only Release) Invisible Touch Tour/Hi-Def Live that was shot using early Sony HDVS 1125 line high definition cameras etc. There is varying amounts of noise visible at times on certain very dark scenes but generally the PQ is excellent, making it hard to believe that this was shot in the mid 80s! |
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| kimlaughton |
|
Posted: 04 Oct 2023, 09:17
|
|
|
I’ve just moved from a CLD-99S to a CLD-959 and while there certainly is an improvement it’s not enough that you’d notice without careful checking of captures.
I think these days what you do after the player (in terms of scaling, noise reduction, external comb filtering etc) will make a much bigger difference to the end result than the player itself in most cases.
It makes sense however that differences were exaggerated previously. It was hard for most non pro reviewers to objectively compare a large number of players and as with most equipment like this there is a strong desire to upgrade and get the ‘best’. No one getting into any hobby wants to hear that the majority of the equipment involved is good enough and that the diminishing returns are so intense that you’d be better off spending your money enjoying some nice dinners.
It would be nice to see some good captures of a large sample of players playing the same content with the same capture setup, but not sure how that could happen unless someone has a really large player collection. |
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| signofzeta |
|
Posted: 07 Oct 2023, 18:59
|
|
|
If you were still using an SD CRT you’d still see huge differences in players. The process of digitizing everything and converting it to HD more or less puts every player in the same ball park. If I may ask, does this process typically make most players look pretty good, or does it make most players look mediocre? (I am aware, of course, that displays have quality differences, too. My "good" display now is a Sony 77-inch OLED set, which I would expect to be among the better ones available.)
Playing SD video on new displays tends to group all players closer because the display is capable of so much more resolution and dynamic range than what’s on an LD. They all look mediocre compared to the HD or 4K signals you’re supposed to be using on that TV. An NTSC signal has not even 1/4 of of the picture information of an Blu-ray so the TV fills in the differences. This is why all LD players look the same, they look like your TVs conversion process. Your TV goes to 11 and LD goes to like…3, so the 3 has to be re-transcribed at 11 levels. The taste of the Kool Aid is dependent on the taste of the water it’s made with because it’s %95 water.
LD players were tuned for CRTs. All NTSC LD players played NTSC LDs but some have more chroma noise than others and new TVs can eliminate it which blends noisy and non-noisy players together...or sometimes an TV gets so busy rendering noise it makes the overall picture worse. A CRT with high saturation may not even be able to render noise that is very obvious on a flat panel. An S201 playing a submarine movie is like…nasty, on the disc itself, but there are ways of reducing it intentionally or unintentionally, by the nature of the design.
PVMs rarely do wonders for LD or any movie sources since they usually have zero movie-centric features. They are meant for bug checking and verification of analog signals, not to disguise any fault but more likely to bring them out as that’s what they were made for. |
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| ldfan |
|
Posted: 14 Oct 2023, 05:18
|
|
|
You can check out this list here….
https://www.lddb.com/hardware/part/ac3rf/
…… and look under “AV Receiver”.
You’ll have do a separate search on each model to see which one’s come with an optical and/or coaxial digital output (some don’t come with any digital outputs so you would be stuck using the AV Receiver as is with your speakers plugged into it).
For “Processors” that have an optical output, the models to search for are…..
Sony, SDP-E800 Sony, SDP-EP9ES Denon, AVD-2000
Keep a search for these on eBay and every so often you might see one listed for a good price. |
|
 |
Jump to forum Jump to topic |
| rein-o |
|
Posted: 14 Oct 2023, 05:33
|
|
|
Yes grip ring, loss of words at the time of my last post  |
|
 |
|
Page 1 of 8 [ Search found 190 matches ]
|