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jeffelledge91

Post subject: Re: DADC USA Rot Plot

Posted: 03 Jan 2025, 16:25

I have read through this thread. I actually worked at the Terre Haute plant in the LD department from 1994 to 1999. Personally, I think it was the adhesive interacting with the aluminum. We knew of some rot problems, but they were rare while I worked there. I ran the aluminum coating machines called Takudas, the adhesive machines and also worked in the quality department. I noticed one question about the last 3 characters on the molds, A28 or B12 and so on, as one person mentioned and is correct on, those are the stamper numbers that went into the injection molding machines. The reflective machine were interesting! We used what was called a tree that had 12 tungsten wires between 2 2" copper rods that was about 4 feet tall. Each tungsten wire had a coil in the middle of it. We put a hook shaped piece of aluminum about 1/2" long in each coil. 72 (1 sided or half discs which were clear) went into the Takuda at a time on panels that would spin when rotated. The Takuda doors would closed and a cryopump would vacuum down the chamber, then electricity would flow through the wires and evaporate the aluminum on to the 72 discs. It would take about 15 minutes for the cycle to run. There were times when the cryopump would "dump" because humidity was too high in the clean room. Cycle times would increase up to 25 minutes at time for the same reason. I wonder if some of that moisture may have something to do with it also....

The adhesive process was basically melted glue applied with rollers on the reflective side and then a flip arm would align side A and B and press them together. This was followed by a trimmer that spun the disc and shaved off the out edge to make it all even. From there it went to a room where we ran them through checking machines. Then to the label station where a person picked them up from the post labeling and slid them into sleeves. then a group of people would jacket them and run them through a shrink wrap oven and skid them. I remember we lost the disney contract because we had mixed discs where we glued some disney move to terminator.... LOL That was a bad day for all of us! Columbia and Sony were our main contracts for obvious reasons. We did finally achieve THX certification. That was awful. I was in AV (quality) at the time and had to watch that damn movie "Willow" like 500 times until we had perfect samples to send in for certification. That was awful! lol Anyway, I thought this might be of interest to people.

jeffelledge91

Post subject: Re: DADC USA Rot Plot

Posted: 03 Jan 2025, 17:57

I am not 100% sure on the last title, but I remember running Cruel Intentions near the end in 1999. We had started DVD production and they moved all of us LD people into DVD as LD ramped down. At our apex, we were shipping 10,000 discs per day, that is just single discs, some titles, well, most were multi-disc. There were a few re-molds of titles in small quantities here and there so not entirely sure what was last. The beginnings of DVD production is also a fun story! LOL

jeffelledge91

Post subject: Former DADC Terre Haute employee in the LD department

Posted: 03 Jan 2025, 19:12

I worked at DADC from 1994 to 1999 in the LD department. I started my LD collection at that time. I sold it off in the early 2000's and now have gotten back into it. It was a great time in life!

jeffelledge91

Post subject: Re: CD Video - who manufactured them/new CDV pressings possi

Posted: 03 Jan 2025, 19:34

The mastering process would be pretty expensive I think, but having worked where they were made, it is not that different from CDs/DVDs. Just larger. The molding machines were giant! The clean room was expensive! The reflective machines were very expensive, although I think the new form of reflecting discs using a target and doing one at a time is a more cost effective way. Keeping all of our players going I think is totally possible and maybe making some new ones, idk. There would be a very small market, butttttttt....... If I were to win 950,000,000 in the lottery, I think it would be a really fun passion project! We could even do the HD LDs! Maybe make some new massive 12" 4k UHD discs that hold entire movie collections with amazing art work! I know some of this is folly, but it is still fun to think about and imagine!

jeffelledge91

Post subject: Re: CD Video - who manufactured them/new CDV pressings possi

Posted: 03 Jan 2025, 19:36

Odd question of semantics, pressing was for vinyl records and molding was for laserdiscs right? We never pressed anything at DADC, it was all injection molded. Are the terms synonymous? Just wondering?

jeffelledge91

Post subject: Re: DADC USA Rot Plot

Posted: 06 Jan 2025, 17:32

I have read through this thread. I actually worked at the Terre Haute plant in the LD department from 1994 to 1999. Personally, I think it was the adhesive interacting with the aluminum. We knew of some rot problems, but they were rare while I worked there. I ran the aluminum coating machines called Takudas, the adhesive machines and also worked in the quality department. I noticed one question about the last 3 characters on the molds, A28 or B12 and so on, as one person mentioned and is correct on, those are the stamper numbers that went into the injection molding machines. The reflective machine were interesting! We used what was called a tree that had 12 tungsten wires between 2 2" copper rods that was about 4 feet tall. Each tungsten wire had a coil in the middle of it. We put a hook shaped piece of aluminum about 1/2" long in each coil. 72 (1 sided or half discs which were clear) went into the Takuda at a time on panels that would spin when rotated. The Takuda doors would closed and a cryopump would vacuum down the chamber, then electricity would flow through the wires and evaporate the aluminum on to the 72 discs. It would take about 15 minutes for the cycle to run. There were times when the cryopump would "dump" because humidity was too high in the clean room. Cycle times would increase up to 25 minutes at time for the same reason. I wonder if some of that moisture may have something to do with it also....

The adhesive process was basically melted glue applied with rollers on the reflective side and then a flip arm would align side A and B and press them together. This was followed by a trimmer that spun the disc and shaved off the out edge to make it all even. From there it went to a room where we ran them through checking machines. Then to the label station where a person picked them up from the post labeling and slid them into sleeves. then a group of people would jacket them and run them through a shrink wrap oven and skid them. I remember we lost the disney contract because we had mixed discs where we glued some disney move to terminator.... LOL That was a bad day for all of us! Columbia and Sony were our main contracts for obvious reasons. We did finally achieve THX certification. That was awful. I was in AV (quality) at the time and had to watch that damn movie "Willow" like 500 times until we had perfect samples to send in for certification. That was awful! lol Anyway, I thought this might be of interest to people.

Interesting info you shared with us.
Thank you very much.

Did DADC plant have manufacturing issues all the time when LD was on the market?
What years were the worst with bad discs versus good years quality manufacturing discs?

I'm ditching most of my collection of LD's and other film media due to possible rot.
Better to sell my stuff before they go bad not playable anymore.

I will still keep a few titles in my collection so I can watch them from time to time but most stuff will have to find a new home.

My other Q's?
Did dvd's from DADC also suffer from rot?
I had a few FOX dvd's, the directors cut of both Schwarzenegger's Commando and Kevin Bacon's Death Sentence, movies had developed laser rot. :thumbdown:
Don't know if both titles were made by DADC?
On my old H/K dvd player both discs couldn't be played, on a newer player playback was OK but not perfect.

How about cd's from DADC?
I do collect music and have plenty of them.
Cd's is something I don't want to get rid of.

Are cd's also made of two halfs glued to each other?

So far I haven't encountered any bad cd's. :thumbup:
Should I worry about my dear cd's?

Well, I was not privy to all those numbers, but heard about them. They put them in chambers to simulate years of humidity and temperature variations and light changes. There is a chance it depends a lot on the day it was made and how much humidity was in the clean room. How much the adhesive layer covered the whole of the 2 halves may make a difference also. After 25 years, if you have discs that have not rotted, I'd say they are pretty good! LOL I never heard of issues with DVDs. DVD are 2 layers, but are glued with a clear resin that is cured, it is very different process. As far as CDs, they are 1 layer with clear resin that is cured also. I think there were instances of CD rot. But it was rare if it happened.

While I was there, FOX was not a contract they had. But that may have changed after I left. Sony and Columbia was all we did when I was there.

jeffelledge91

Post subject: Re: 1993 Star Wars The Definitive Collection

Posted: 06 Jan 2025, 17:41

This turned into a fun post! LOL The dark side is with many of you! I am more of a Star Trek fan, WAY more. But I still like Star Wars too.

jeffelledge91

Post subject: Re: Apollo 13 Arrived Yesterday! THX Sound AC3!!

Posted: 10 Jan 2025, 15:27

Good Christ, a lot of these forums are just viscous. Kind of ruins the fun.

jeffelledge91

Post subject: Re: 1993 Star Wars The Definitive Collection

Posted: 11 Jan 2025, 19:56

takeshi666 wrote:

Calling it now, it's a rotter and the seller was hoping to unload it on someone who doesn't even own a player.

Ha! It came, it’s perfect! No rot and no damage!

jeffelledge91

Post subject: Re: Former DADC Terre Haute employee in the LD department

Posted: 27 Jan 2025, 17:22

Welcome to the forum, Jeff.

do you remember the injection molding machine brand that was used to
mold the discs? or the mold ,manufacturer?

My last job was Application/Service engineer for CD/CDR,DVD/DVD-+R,-R/W
and BluRay , almost 20 years ago

would be great if you can share some of your experience working at DADC Terre Haute

I'm not sure what the molding machine manufacturer was or who made the mold. We made our own stampers, but the mold was made elsewhere. They were huge. There was a Sony robot that reached in to grab the disc and stack it on spindles. Well they branded it Sony away.

This is not it, but they looked similar to this: https://pl.mitsubishielectric.com/fa/pl_en/products/rbt/robot/vertical/rvfr-series/rv-4fr-d.html

This is an article with a photo of the CD/DVD molding machines we had: http://www.hughsnews.ca/sony-dadc-shifts-disc-production-overseas-sheds-80-workers-in-terre-haute-0062530

Here is a video that was not our plant, but they used the same reflective tech, the molding machine looks a bit different. But I used run the reflective machine some times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nycRptW6vYU

jeffelledge91

Post subject: Re: Former DADC Terre Haute employee in the LD department

Posted: 28 Jan 2025, 21:14

Would you have any funny stories from the DADC era to tell?

Did you keep any prototypes or promotional materials?

Julien

It was not funny at the time, but it is now! We glued Terminator to Disney's Fantasia. I can imagine some rich well-to-do family flipping that disc and seeing T1 smashing things naked! LOL The only thing I kept was a few pay stubs and my ID badge.

jeffelledge91

Post subject: Re: Laser Rot

Posted: 03 Feb 2025, 20:27

What I find interesting is that there are discs that only have laser rot related issues on one side. One side has heavy rot and the other side is rot free. Today I played my 1983 Japanese disc of Breaking Away. Side A has serious rot (the analogue audio is almost gone) but side B is perfect which was a big surprise to me when the disc went from side A to B! Oh nice, at least I can play the other side without any issue I thought.
I just assume that each side is part of a different batch. I've got a disc like that too; side A plays great, but side B is almost completely unwatchable.

Same here with Titanic, one side of disc 1 has rot. At DADC we had lots we ran. Each lot would have 36 discs on it (half discs). In adhesive, we 2 lines. We had lot tags so we knew A and B sides. So, it would go through the rollers to apply the adhesive, pick that half disc up and rotate it, then the next would come through and it would put them together. They went through a roller and trimmer. Both halves received glue. Maybe the rollers did not evenly apply it and left air gaps. Pure speculation..... I know if glue ran low in the heating bins, it would leave streaks on the half discs as they went through. We also used LOTS of isopropyl. I wonder how that interacted with discs if it got through to the reflective layer. Environmental control in the cleanroom could have been a factor. If humidity was higher than normal, the cycle times on the reflective machines would go way up and slow production. We had a machine that scanned every disc as it came off of the Takuda (reflective machine). I do not know everything it checked, but it did look for reflective defects ranging from spot to splatter and the thickness of the reflective layer. If it was too thin for example you could really see though it! Our yield target from the Takudas was 92%, but in reality we probably ran at 85% most of the time. We had a lot of scrap.

jeffelledge91

Post subject: Alien 3 disappointment

Posted: 13 Mar 2025, 14:37

I got an unopened copy of Alien 3. It is CLV. The disc looked fine with no rot. But wow the quality of the video was awful. It had lots of star noise, low quality transfer, ever few seconds the whole screen would flash. The whole thing played, but wow what a terrible experience sadly. Maybe I will buy another copy to see if it is better. idk. Anyone else have it? How was yours?

Alien 3 (1992) [5593-85]

jeffelledge91

Post subject: Re: Laser Rot

Posted: 13 Mar 2025, 14:57

Rot can get so bad that the player can't play it so...pretty bad. Rot in general though is really, honestly, pretty rare. Its really just certain eras of discs from certain plants. At least %99 of all discs have no trace of it.

If you are talking about Fifth Element, The (1997) [82406] then supposedly its just a matter of getting the right pressing.

If you're a big fan of the movie you could just get the BR for $10 and not worry about it.

Fifth Element is one we ran in Terre Haute.....

jeffelledge91

Post subject: Re: Alien 3 disappointment

Posted: 14 Mar 2025, 16:04

I fail to understand the extra value of sealed disc's. Maybe someone here can explain that.

Because the vast amount of people who collect things, do not collect them for the purpose of using them. To some, this might sound very strange. Especially for people not buying for the sole purpose to collect, but for the purpose that the items they collect, they still find joy in using. So if your buying LD's for the purpose of watching movies this way, then LD's to you are just an old movie format that you still use. You're not exactly simply collecting them, your still buying them, if that makes sense?
..........................
Oh and everyone knows the best Alien movie was the first one. ;)
I liked Aliens right off but Alien 3 took me years to warm up to.

All valid! Some things I like to collect unopened. Some things, I like to collect and use. I love the cool factor of playing a LaserDisc, especially when it looks amazing when watching. I know not all will, but there are some that are really really good! I have all the Star Trek movie releases, and they are all great! The first 2 Alien movies, I have the boxed editions and they are wonderful. I have a copy of Breakfast at Tiffany's that is sealed and I will not be opening it because I want it to stay sealed. I collect Star Trek memorabilia, some I want to play with, some I want untouched, sometimes I buy 2, one to open, one to not! LOL I have a classic Thunderbird (1987) that sits in the garage most of the time, but I like to take it for a drive occasionally. So, I see both sides.

As for Alien 3 the movie, it kept my attention. LOL

jeffelledge91

Post subject: Re: Alien 3 disappointment

Posted: 14 Mar 2025, 18:21

I really don’t know if I’m going to be able to handle every thread turning into a religious screed for intentionally buying crap you’ll never ever use.

That Star Wars CED…come on. It’s garbage. It was garbage in the 80s, which is why it was marked half off. It’s “sealed” in a friggn ziplock. I wish I was your dad so I could send you to your room to think about what you’re doing.

“Congratulations, Son. You bought the worst version of Star Wars around with zero intention of ever doing anything but haul it around with you for the rest of you life. You’re grounded until you can satisfactorily describe to me the concept of cause and effect.”

You worship waste and when called on it you preach it, “It’s totally normal to waste your money on junk you’ll never use, never be able to sell, and anyone who questions it needs to be educated about collecting.” This is wrong. It’s you who doesn’t know the purpose of owning a movie. Your value system is busted. You’ve been hanging out with too many like minded people who aren’t allowed to question you and you’ve lost your judgement.

Anyway…leaving Alien 3 in its shrink isn’t going to warp it or have any other effects. Shrink does nothing except make noobs pay more. People say it pulls on the jacket. It doesn’t. I don’t know why people say that. I’ve opened 30 year old LDs, I do it on camera in the video in my sig. They play fine.

Either it’s a defective disc (which would have been discovered 30 years ago if someone had opened the thing!) or something is wrong with your setup.

Serious fact: all real LD users buy open discs. If a disc is sealed it could be factory defective or rotted or even cracked in two and you won’t be able to tell. Ask the seller to open it and play test it. If they won’t, don’t buy it.

In my defense on the Sealed Aliens 3, I did not know it was sealed until it came. Then I opened it, so no longer sealed. LOL

I used to run one of the shrink wrap machines. They went though an oven! Sometimes the hot cutter bar would come down and crush a disc. That was always fun to clean up!

Old feller, what made you so much of a curmudgeon? We need to shave your legs and polish you up, send you on a spin and see if you play better! LOL jk

jeffelledge91

Post subject: Re: My CED collection

Posted: 18 Mar 2025, 18:40

Hi guys. Sharing my CED collection here.

Main collection that most CED collectors will be interested in. I've got some rare stuff in here!
https://ibb.co/album/vCk800?sort=name_asc

My original CED stack of CED's handed down to me by my grandparents back in the 80's. Some are replacements that got lost over the years.
https://ibb.co/album/NrxGtC?sort=name_asc

I have some Nintendo (NES) and Atari (2600) games too.

NES:
https://ibb.co/album/fDYM72?sort=name_asc

2600:
https://ibb.co/album/0Dmskh?sort=name_asc

I have one CED, Star Trek TMP. I think they are cool!

jeffelledge91

Post subject: Nice finds

Posted: 17 Apr 2025, 12:50

Picked up some good finds at a Toy and Antique mall in Louisville this past weekend. Top Gun, Naked Gun, The meaning of life, Return of the Jedi, Moonraker deluxe, Copycat and The Rocketeer. All for $58. They have lots more, South Louisville Toys and Antiques is the name of it I think.