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 Post subject: CD-G Karaoke CDs and Burnt VCD videos
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2018, 00:49 
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I got the following players: An Xbox One Classic (pre S and X) a partially-backwards compatible PS3, an Xbox 360 Elite (first one with HDMI), a Pioneer CLD 704 Laser Disc PLayer, and 2 DVD recorders: Both Philips: a DVDR-75 and a DVDR-3505. The cool things about these is the 3050 has both an Analog and a Digital Tuner, so i can record both my vcideo games like the 2600 as well as my antenna TV and has an HDMI output. The cool thing about the 75 is that it has Component Input so i can make a tri-color factor DVD instead of a Bi-color factor of S-Video when making DVD-to-DVD transfers.

I have a CD+G Karaoke disc I found at Goodwill: Kim Possible Soundtrack. And I have a made-on-my-Mac VCD I made when my Mac only had a CD-RW drive, not a DVD-RW drive. The show content you can see is the first nationwide piece of fame my friend got for playing video games. It was Life to the Power of X. I and 2 other people help him with his qualifying video. I was responsible for editing and titling. it paid off, he won a bunch of Original Xboxes for his friends, which I was one of and a year of Xbox Live, which I had to hold on to because I had dial-up at the time and no hope for getting better. Then cellular internet came. I was able to use it.

But back to the main point of the post: Which of these players do you think would be able to play either the Kim Possible Soundtrack CD+G and the burnt VCD of my friend's springboard to fame?

I tried all these above systems, except the VCD in the LD player, because VCDs uses MPEG1 and requires a MPEG 1 decoder. And that standard came out after LD. I'll report those results to anyone interested. Guess how many were able to play the VCD? The CD+G? (and also whether the graphic track kicked in or whether it interpreted it as a regular CD and went to the default Visualizer/disc info.

But CD+G was late 80's because I have a demo CD+G with the Sega CD. It has Information Society's 2 big singles: What's On Your Mind, and Walking Away, 2 tracks of Jimmi Hendrix remaster CD+G version, and 3 artists I have never heard of and don't remember to this day (but I do have the disc if you want me to look it up.) I know the Sega CD works with CD+G. I even bought an original Information Society CD and Jimmi Hendrix with those songs on them, and the whole album was CD+G. Find out when "What's On Your Mind" was on the Billborad Top 40, and that tells you when it was released. That's how early (at the latest) the CD+G standard is.

Also I purchased an unauthorized VCD Player boot disc for the Dreamcast, so it is capable of VCD.

I've also got, if you want me to try it, I've got an Original Xbox, a PS2, a Dreamcast, a PS1, a Sega Saturn, and a Sega CD with 32X attached. Do I have to bust out the Sega CD to play the CD+G, or will a more modern machine play a VCD and a GD+G?

And for Microsoft and Sony, maybe can you update your disc player to play those formats? Those formats are owned by no one, so they don't have to pay rights to anyone other than the CD association (at least I think) which they pay for anyway. And even that might be expired.

I'll give you a hint, one of those 2 formats totally crapped out on the above players, and was was playable on one of the DVD-recorders. (didn't try both. I was satisfied with 1)
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 Post subject: Re: CD-G Karaoke CDs and Burnt VCD videos
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2018, 00:54 
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Saturn might work but you would need a VCD card from Japan to play VCDs though CD+G should be fine with out the card.
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 Post subject: Re: CD-G Karaoke CDs and Burnt VCD videos
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2018, 01:27 
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The only things I can think of that will play both VCD and CD+G:

Saturn with VCD card
Some karaoke oriented CD/LD/DVD players and karaoke machines
Possibly PS1 with some aftermarket stuff
CDI maybe? You’ll need to have the MPEG brick for it but I don’t know if it actually plays CD+G.
Maybe 3DO? It does CD+G.
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 Post subject: Re: CD-G Karaoke CDs and Burnt VCD videos
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2018, 12:43 
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The answer is for the ones I tested: none of the newer machines can play CD-G, but they all read it as a regular music CD. A couple even Gracenote-d it and recognized the CD as a commercial CD, but didn't recognize it as a CD+G. And one of the 2 DVD recorders read my VCD as a VCD. Didn't test the other one. Nothing else worked. No Xbox One, No Xbox 360, No PS3, and not my CLD-D704.

I know the Sega CD reads CD+G and the Dreamcast reads VCD with a VCD boot disc.
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 Post subject: Re: CD-G Karaoke CDs and Burnt VCD videos
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2018, 19:26 
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A Pioneer CLD-V880 or V870 will play both.
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 Post subject: Re: CD-G Karaoke CDs and Burnt VCD videos
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2018, 20:19 
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signofzeta wrote:
The only things I can think of that will play both VCD and CD+G:

Saturn with VCD card


Someone showed me a foreign VCD of Phantom Menace on VCD using a Saturn. I've never seen the VCD card.

If Dreamcast can play CD+Gs, then all you need is a VCD boot disk to play both CD+G and VCD. Just boot the disc then eject and load the vcd. To end VCD mode, turn off and on power. I even got a VCD Dream Remote with it too.

signofzeta wrote:

Maybe 3DO? It does CD+G.

I got one of those too. Gives me an excuse to pull it out. I know it plays Photo CDs. I don't know if a 3DO needs an MPEG 1 card, or whether it's built in.

Does Microsoft and Sony have to pay anyone to make their CD players play VCDs and CD+Gs? If not, that would be a cheap-to-free add on/update to the CD player. Unless they have a vested interest in not playing VCDs and CD+Gs
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 Post subject: Re: CD-G Karaoke CDs and Burnt VCD videos
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2018, 21:37 
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the VCD card must be getting rare and or expensive https://www.ebay.com/itm/sega-saturn-vc ... SwCMtaVBaF there are at least 2 different cards that enable the Saturn to play VCDs
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 Post subject: Re: CD-G Karaoke CDs and Burnt VCD videos
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2018, 22:02 
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xtempo wrote:
the VCD card must be getting rare and or expensive https://www.ebay.com/itm/sega-saturn-vc ... SwCMtaVBaF there are at least 2 different cards that enable the Saturn to play VCDs


The Dreamcast VCD boot disc was real cheap back in the day. I got a deluxe version with media remote and I spent no more than $5 +shipping back in 2000 on Ebay. If you already own a Dreamcast, and you don't have a separate DVD-RW VCR-style recorder with VCD player compatibility built in, probably the Dreamcast boost disc is the cheapest way to boot VCDs. It doesn't violate your warrantee, even back in the Dreamcast's heydays. It just wasn't authorized by Sega, though some people say playing burnt CD-R ROMs is not the best way to treat a Dreamcast. I've heard lasers get ruined by playing burnt CD-ROMs. Maybe a VCD is less taxing on the laser than a CD-R, simply because the content is linear and the laser isn't constantly moving, seeking and accessing.

By the way, what you think of the Dreamcast depends on whether you bought original GD ROMs or you burnt CD-R CD -OMS. If you played on GD ROMs, the Dreamcast was gorgeous. If you played on burnt CD ROMs, it looked like a PS1. Little things were edited out to fit on 700 MB as opposed to 1 GB, including some of the finer details which make it ugly. PS1 ugly.
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 Post subject: Re: CD-G Karaoke CDs and Burnt VCD videos
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2018, 22:20 
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As it turns out, you can't "BUY" the Dreamcast VCD boot disc. But here's a website where you can make it:

http://www.theisozone.com/downloads/dreamcast/homebrew-apps/dreamcast-movie-player/
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 Post subject: Re: CD-G Karaoke CDs and Burnt VCD videos
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 00:07 
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I don’t know if the DC has any CD+G capability. They have a karaoke addon for it but I’m pretty sure it only worked with a online service/GDROM combo thing.

3DO is maybe the only console other than Saturn to officially do both.
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 Post subject: Re: CD-G Karaoke CDs and Burnt VCD videos
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 00:11 
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What about the AC3 ability from something like the 3DO??
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 Post subject: Re: CD-G Karaoke CDs and Burnt VCD videos
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 06:31 
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rein-o wrote:
What about the AC3 ability from something like the 3DO??


On my 3DO (by the way, MY 3DO is a Goldstar, not a Panasonic. Garage sale scavengers can't be too picky. .) ), it has a composite, L/R and S-VIdeo outputs. A couple games are in Dolby surround, but unless Toslink or Coaxial is on a Panasonic model, the 3DO can only do either Dolby 4.0, now called Pro Logic and MAYBE it can do Dolby Headphone via the headphone port built into some controllers. I didn't notice a Toslink or Coaxial port, but I'll check again. If it does, it might have Dolby 5.1, because there's room not to deal with backwards compatibility with dual mono and stereo of both the digital and analog tracks. I don't know if variable content code within a soundscape is "cheaper bitwise" than a pre-recorded, pre-determined soundstage, but it might be because formulas based on variables take up less space and is repeatable with different tweaks compared to linear data. So if they use code wisely, a Dolby 5.1 Soundstage might be possible and fit on a 3DO ROM. If not, it can do CD-Quality Dolby 4.0
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 Post subject: Re: CD-G Karaoke CDs and Burnt VCD videos
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 07:03 
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signofzeta wrote:
I don’t know if the DC has any CD+G capability. They have a karaoke addon for it but I’m pretty sure it only worked with a online service/GDROM combo thing.

3DO is maybe the only console other than Saturn to officially do both.


I'm not familiar with the Karaoke add on for the DC, but remember, online service on the Dreamcast for most people was Dial Up, streaming songs are near impossible. I think you might also be thinking of Samba De Amigo, which had add on songs. Though if you use the Alien Front Online Microphone, you might be able to input your singing for judgement.

Speaking of Alien front oNline, the Dreamcast semed to convert your voice from natural sound to MP3. How much data does AM Radio/Talk quality tkae when encoded in MP3. It was delayed by 5 seconds, but played your voice to everyone in real time (after 5 seconds of processing time). Some people were using Alien Front Online chat rooms as voice chat rooms and not as game rooms. 8 friends got together and just talked to each other and did nothing in the game. That's how I earned some easy victories in that game. I played while others just talked.

The DC VCD boot disc is also a MP3 CD boot disc.

Tomorrow afternoon, I'll test the various consoles I have. Today I was busy watching the Royal Rumble at a friend's house.

So Far:
(Key: AO=Audio Only)
System VCD CD+G

Xbox One N AO
PS3 N AO
Xbox 360 N AO
CLD-704 ? ?
DVDR 3505 Y AO
DVDR 75 ? AO
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 Post subject: Re: CD-G Karaoke CDs and Burnt VCD videos
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 07:39 
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The Atari Jaguar CD add-on can do CD+G, but I think it can't do VCD.
Just thought I'd mention it for the console freaks to be upset about :)
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 Post subject: Re: CD-G Karaoke CDs and Burnt VCD videos
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 16:58 
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lons_vex wrote:
The Atari Jaguar CD add-on can do CD+G, but I think it can't do VCD.
Just thought I'd mention it for the console freaks to be upset about :)


There's a few other CD based consoles not mentioned yet, like the Turbo Grafx CD, and the Neo Geo CD. Isn't Nuon also a CD-based system? (never seen one in the wild, so i don't know) How about the Apple/Bandai Pippen? (never seen those either. I guess "Pippen ain't easy" .) ) What other obscure crevices of console history can we reach into and see what we pull out?
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 Post subject: Re: CD-G Karaoke CDs and Burnt VCD videos
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 17:39 
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I didn’t mention the other systems because I have a lot of experience with 90s hardware and I can mostly list the capabilities of every machine from memory. I’ve also had a few CD+Gs over the years and it’s always interested me as a format so I was always on the lookout.

Recently (somewhat) midwest rap supergroup Doomtree releases their own karaoke CD+G.

http://store.doomtree.net/product/doomt ... e-download

I’ve run it a few times in my Duo R. It’s a competent release as far as CD+G goes. It does a good job of displaying the lyrics and some pics and of course Doomtree is literally always awesome so it’s nice to have no-vocal versions of all these tracks.

Turbo CD stuff can play CD+G but absolutely not VCD. I can’t remember if the Neo CD did CD+G or not but I know for sure it doesn’t do VCD so I didn’t mention it either.

The thing about AC3 and the 3DO was, I’m pretty sure, a joke.

Dolby Surround/Pro Logic is NOT 4.0 sound. It has four channels in it but it’s 2.0. I don’t want to discuss this one bit, btw, it’s just a correction. You can hide more channels in the 2.0 but there are only two discrete channels. People didn’t start using terms like “5.1” until discrete multichannel systems like Dolby Digital and DTS came out. Only then did they start referring to things like sound bars and Bluetooth gizmos as 2.0 or 3.0. That simple numbering system doesn’t do a good job of describing things that came before it, mainly that there are extra channels hidden in old stereo movie tracks that produce front and center. You can really do it with basically any stereo format. There where Quad records and Dolby Surround SNES games and VHS. It just isn’t 4.0 unless the format itself contains four descrete channels.


Last edited by signofzeta on 29 Jan 2018, 19:16, edited 1 time in total. _________________
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 Post subject: Re: CD-G Karaoke CDs and Burnt VCD videos
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 18:49 
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tripletopper wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
I don’t know if the DC has any CD+G capability. They have a karaoke addon for it but I’m pretty sure it only worked with a online service/GDROM combo thing.

3DO is maybe the only console other than Saturn to officially do both.


I'm not familiar with the Karaoke add on for the DC, but remember, online service on the Dreamcast for most people was Dial Up, streaming songs are near impossible. I think you might also be thinking of Samba De Amigo, which had add on songs. Though if you use the Alien Front Online Microphone, you might be able to input your singing for judgement.

Speaking of Alien front oNline, the Dreamcast semed to convert your voice from natural sound to MP3. How much data does AM Radio/Talk quality tkae when encoded in MP3. It was delayed by 5 seconds, but played your voice to everyone in real time (after 5 seconds of processing time). Some people were using Alien Front Online chat rooms as voice chat rooms and not as game rooms. 8 friends got together and just talked to each other and did nothing in the game. That's how I earned some easy victories in that game. I played while others just talked.

The DC VCD boot disc is also a MP3 CD boot disc.

Tomorrow afternoon, I'll test the various consoles I have. Today I was busy watching the Royal Rumble at a friend's house.

So Far:
(Key: AO=Audio Only)
System VCD CD+G

Xbox One N AO
PS3 N AO
Xbox 360 N AO
CLD-704 ? ?
DVDR 3505 Y AO
DVDR 75 ? AO

here is a pic of the unit with a DreamCast
Image
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 Post subject: Re: CD-G Karaoke CDs and Burnt VCD videos
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 19:13 
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signofzeta wrote:
I didn’t mention the other systems because I have a lot of experience with 90s hardware and I can mostly list the capabilities of every machine from memory. I’ve also had a few CG+Gs over the years and it’s always interested me as a format so I was always on the lookout.

Recently (somewhat) midwest rap supergroup Doomtree releases their own karaoke CD+G.

http://store.doomtree.net/product/doomt ... e-download

I’ve run it a few times in my Duo R. It’s a competent release as far as CD+G goes. It does a good job of displaying the lyrics and some pics and of course Doomtree is literally always awesome so it’s nice to have no-vocal versions of all these tracks.

Turbo CD stuff can play CD+G but absolutely not VCD. I can’t remember if the Neo CD did CD+G or not but I know for sure it doesn’t do VCD so I didn’t mention it either.

The thing about AC3 and the 3DO was, I’m pretty sure, a joke.

Dolby Surround/Pro Logic is NOT 4.0 sound. It has four channels in it but it’s 2.0. I don’t want to discuss this one bit, btw, it’s just a correction. You can hide more channels in the 2.0 but there are only two discrete channels. People didn’t start using terms like “5.1” until discrete multichannel systems like Dolby Digital and DTS came out. Only then did they start referring to things like sound bars and Bluetooth gizmos as 2.0 or 3.0. That simple numbering system doesn’t do a good job of describing things that came before it, mainly that there are extra channels hidden in old stereo movie tracks that produce front and center. You can really do it with basically any stereo format. There where Quad records and Dolby Surround SNES games and VHS. It just isn’t 4.0 unless the format itself contains four descrete channels.


Yes I know that there are 4 tracks, but they are hidden within a left and right 2 channel track. I understand there's encoding. I didn't know 4.0 meant 4 Independent tracks, as opposed to 4 tracks encoded within 2. Sorry if I used the wrong term. No further discussion.
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 Post subject: Re: CD-G Karaoke CDs and Burnt VCD videos
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 19:14 
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xtempo wrote:
tripletopper wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
I don’t know if the DC has any CD+G capability. They have a karaoke addon for it but I’m pretty sure it only worked with a online service/GDROM combo thing.

3DO is maybe the only console other than Saturn to officially do both.


I'm not familiar with the Karaoke add on for the DC, but remember, online service on the Dreamcast for most people was Dial Up, streaming songs are near impossible. I think you might also be thinking of Samba De Amigo, which had add on songs. Though if you use the Alien Front Online Microphone, you might be able to input your singing for judgement.

Speaking of Alien front oNline, the Dreamcast semed to convert your voice from natural sound to MP3. How much data does AM Radio/Talk quality tkae when encoded in MP3. It was delayed by 5 seconds, but played your voice to everyone in real time (after 5 seconds of processing time). Some people were using Alien Front Online chat rooms as voice chat rooms and not as game rooms. 8 friends got together and just talked to each other and did nothing in the game. That's how I earned some easy victories in that game. I played while others just talked.

The DC VCD boot disc is also a MP3 CD boot disc.

Tomorrow afternoon, I'll test the various consoles I have. Today I was busy watching the Royal Rumble at a friend's house.

So Far:
(Key: AO=Audio Only)
System VCD CD+G

Xbox One N AO
PS3 N AO
Xbox 360 N AO
CLD-704 ? ?
DVDR 3505 Y AO
DVDR 75 ? AO

here is a pic of the unit with a DreamCast
Image


Well I'll be. But it's probably not a US model. proof positive.
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 Post subject: Re: CD-G Karaoke CDs and Burnt VCD videos
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 19:18 
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It used a GD+net model that essentially locked out the songs on the GD until you paid for them over the net. Many JDM games used this model.

The MegaCD karaoke unit is far more useful.
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