It is currently 19 Mar 2024, 07:51




 Page 1 of 1 [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Why do PAL laserdiscs only have one stereo track?
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2015, 08:51 
True fan
True fan
User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2015, 18:35
Posts: 350
Location: United Kingdom
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Whist NTSC has two, one analogue and one digital?
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do PAL laserdiscs only have one stereo track?
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2015, 11:27 
True fan
True fan
User avatar

Joined: 26 Oct 2012, 05:11
Posts: 359
Location: Netherlands
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
PAL has more lines of resolution, therefore there isn't enough space to put 2 pairs of stereo audio on the disc.... :(
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do PAL laserdiscs only have one stereo track?
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2015, 01:19 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 21 Dec 2002, 18:44
Posts: 959
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 122 times
That is correct. When the format was re-introduced in the UK, the dropped the analog tracks and added Digital tracks. That is why there are a handful of Dolby Digital titles in PAL countries (Germany mostly) that are NTSC format.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do PAL laserdiscs only have one stereo track?
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2015, 01:34 
Absolute fan
Absolute fan
User avatar

Joined: 18 Apr 2012, 18:02
Posts: 1614
Location: United States
Has thanked: 71 times
Been thanked: 88 times
It's actually/pedantically got more to do with the 25/50hz refresh rate - in order to do CAV, you need to spin the disk slower to fit an entire frame in one rotation. This means that the maximum frequency has to be lower (while video bandwidth is actually higher for PAL), causing Phillips to lower the video frequency (IIRC from a post by Disclord a bit too low!) - and the analog tracks were brought under 1mhz, whereas on NTSC they're at 2.3 and 2.8mhz.

So when digital audio was introduced, there was no way to combine them on PAL LD's...

It probably escaped Phillips that they could've just moved the inner limit on PAL CAV disks a bit outwards and then gotten a little bit of that RF bandwidth back, while they were working on more important things like figuring out how to attach the mirrors with glue to cut costs by a few pennies.
_________________
Happycube Labs: Where the past is being re-made, today. [meep!]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do PAL laserdiscs only have one stereo track?
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2015, 16:11 
Confirmed Padawan
Confirmed Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2006, 17:10
Posts: 3742
Location: United Kingdom
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 4 times
blam1 wrote:
That is correct. When the format was re-introduced in the UK, the dropped the analog tracks and added Digital tracks. That is why there are a handful of Dolby Digital titles in PAL countries (Germany mostly) that are NTSC format.

PCM better than saying PAL Dolby Digital as that might confuse others into thinking there 5.1.

PAL PCM is strictly 4.2.4 matrix just like some NTSC titles that may be analog/digital PCM 4.2.4 matrix or PCM 4.2.4 matrix with an Dolby AC-3 5.1 track. Always check items on ebay with site here for specifications if unsure? I have seen some ebay, listings of 4.2.4 matrix being listed as Dolby Digital, I think it was a Waterworld PAL pressing.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do PAL laserdiscs only have one stereo track?
PostPosted: 30 Apr 2022, 16:33 
Third post and above
Third post and above
User avatar

Joined: 22 Apr 2022, 11:12
Posts: 3
Location: Virgin Islands (British)
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
The reason for this had to do with the higher bandwidth on PAL Laserdiscs.

According to Wikipedia, NTSC Laserdiscs had a horizontal resolution of 425 lines (equivalent to 566⅔ pixels from left-to-right, in digital terminology), whereas PAL Laserdiscs had a horizontal resolution of 440 lines (equivalent to 586⅔ pixels from left-to-right, in digital terminology). As a result of this, there was no space for an analog track on a PAL digital sound Laserdisc. Don't try to play digital-only Laserdiscs in an analog-only Laserdisc player, or else it won't work.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do PAL laserdiscs only have one stereo track?
PostPosted: 01 May 2022, 00:39 
Absolute fan
Absolute fan
User avatar

Joined: 01 Feb 2018, 02:41
Posts: 1989
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 181 times
Been thanked: 382 times
donkeykong wrote:
The reason for this had to do with the higher bandwidth on PAL Laserdiscs.

According to Wikipedia, NTSC Laserdiscs had a horizontal resolution of 425 lines (equivalent to 566⅔ pixels from left-to-right, in digital terminology), whereas PAL Laserdiscs had a horizontal resolution of 440 lines (equivalent to 586⅔ pixels from left-to-right, in digital terminology). As a result of this, there was no space for an analog track on a PAL digital sound Laserdisc. Don't try to play digital-only Laserdiscs in an analog-only Laserdisc player, or else it won't work.

You do realize this thread is seven years old, right?
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do PAL laserdiscs only have one stereo track?
PostPosted: 03 May 2022, 08:43 
True fan
True fan
User avatar

Joined: 09 Jan 2016, 16:42
Posts: 475
Location: Netherlands
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 99 times
PAL discs should be avoided all together. There is no value in them at all, that's why I strictly collect only NTSC discs while being in a PAL region.
_________________
Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqIv0_dV3_pjvruObJcukOw
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do PAL laserdiscs only have one stereo track?
PostPosted: 03 May 2022, 09:25 
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 23:37
Posts: 4539
Location: Tokyo
Has thanked: 291 times
Been thanked: 1134 times
And it's all explained here now:

https://www.lddb.com/help/sound/ (Soundtracks Help section)

Julien
_________________
HARDWARE DATABASE
HLD-X0/9 LD-S9 OPPO 105/205 SL-1200G
LDD-1 MSC-4000 R2144 PONTUS II C45 MC257
Online
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do PAL laserdiscs only have one stereo track?
PostPosted: 03 May 2022, 18:03 
Absolute fan
Absolute fan
User avatar

Joined: 01 Feb 2018, 02:41
Posts: 1989
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 181 times
Been thanked: 382 times
therussian wrote:
PAL discs should be avoided all together. There is no value in them at all, that's why I strictly collect only NTSC discs while being in a PAL region.

I dunno about that, there are a few PAL releases that might actually be preferrable to their NTSC counterparts.

Jumanji comes to mind.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do PAL laserdiscs only have one stereo track?
PostPosted: 03 May 2022, 19:40 
Advanced fan
Advanced fan
User avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2019, 18:26
Posts: 560
Location: UK
Has thanked: 256 times
Been thanked: 231 times
takeshi666 wrote:
therussian wrote:
PAL discs should be avoided all together. There is no value in them at all, that's why I strictly collect only NTSC discs while being in a PAL region.

I dunno about that, there are a few PAL releases that might actually be preferrable to their NTSC counterparts.

Jumanji comes to mind.

I agree here, and there are several music concert discs I can think of also….
_________________
Pioneer HLD-X9/CLD-925/CLD-2950
OPPO BDP-105D EU
ARCAM AVR-600
JVC DLA-X7000BE
Lumagen Radiance 2144
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do PAL laserdiscs only have one stereo track?
PostPosted: 06 May 2022, 23:08 
Absolute fan
Absolute fan
User avatar

Joined: 18 Apr 2012, 18:02
Posts: 1614
Location: United States
Has thanked: 71 times
Been thanked: 88 times
There are a couple of things that really held PAL LD back - the lack of high-end (arguably even mid-grade) players, and the disk reading rate is a bit too low on CLV/inner-CAV (which a red/MUSE laser would have worked around)
_________________
Happycube Labs: Where the past is being re-made, today. [meep!]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do PAL laserdiscs only have one stereo track?
PostPosted: 09 May 2022, 13:57 
Absolute fan
Absolute fan
User avatar

Joined: 16 Nov 2018, 14:21
Posts: 1570
Location: New Delaware
Has thanked: 448 times
Been thanked: 492 times
laserfanhld-gb wrote:
takeshi666 wrote:
therussian wrote:
PAL discs should be avoided all together. There is no value in them at all, that's why I strictly collect only NTSC discs while being in a PAL region.

I dunno about that, there are a few PAL releases that might actually be preferrable to their NTSC counterparts.

Jumanji comes to mind.

I agree here, and there are several music concert discs I can think of also….


Agreed.

Plus there's the odd 'PAL-exclusive' here and there. It's not much imho mind you, but not slim pickings enough to discount getting a PAL-capable player.
_________________
Blog: The Coterie / L'boxd: Diary
Pioneer CLD-R7G, CLD-D925 | Yamaha APD-2 | DVDO Edge, VP50 Pro
Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 1 [ 13 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

cron