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| Cinema Digital Sound aka kodac and found on sony recievers https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2484 |
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| Author: | elieb [ 12 Mar 2013, 23:01 ] |
| Post subject: | Cinema Digital Sound aka kodac and found on sony recievers |
i was wondering do any Cinema Digital Sound decoders exist for hearing CDS/DCS mixes as they should--on a real dcs decoder, or will dolby pro logic II sound the same? feel free to expand this short lived kodac sound system. http://in70mm.com/library/process/cds/index.htm |
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| Author: | disclord [ 13 Mar 2013, 02:21 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cinema Digital Sound aka kodac and found on sony recieve |
CDS was just a method of putting digital sound on a print and not a system ever meant for home use. Many AC-3 LaserDisc's and DVD's use the 5.1 mix that was used for the CDS prints. Dick Tracy and The Doors and the first DVD release of T2 (and the AC-3 LD's ) all use the mix done for the CDS system. So again, it's not needed as we already have the CDS mixes available. And Pro Logic II is a 2 channel decoding matrix system, not a discrete format so it can't ever recreate the same effects as a discrete system. |
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| Author: | tim_p [ 13 Mar 2013, 17:07 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cinema Digital Sound aka kodac and found on sony recieve |
Having had a poke around film-tech, in70mm, imdb and of course lddb I've summarised the CDS mixed films on home video and am wondering what's what. I can see something like T2 being too much of a temptation to remix hence, per your posts disclord, it's the original Artisan dvd that is required but what about mix sources for the others bearing in mind that not every film was a six-track/5.1 mix? Straightforward Terminator 2 - original Artisan dvd CDS 5.1 mix Dick Tracy - blu ray is lossless version of CDS 5.1 dvd mix? Days of Thunder - as above? The Doors - blu ray is some 7.1 abomination, so it's the AC3 laser or 5.1 dvd for CDS? Not so straightforward Edward Scissorhands - blu ray is 4.0 and laser is Dolby Surround - CDS or Dolby SR? Hudson Hawk - laser is Dolby Surround and dvd is DD 2.0 so CDS or Dolby SR? For the Boys - as above plus dvd has a 'new' 4.1 mix - who knows?! Final Approach - Dolby Surround on laser only so CDS or Dolby SR? Flatliners - no CDS theatrical release in the US so the 5.1 mix on blu would (still) be CDS sourced, 70mm 6-track sourced or new mix for home video? Laser is Dolby Surround and dvd is DD 2.0. Universal Soldier - as above but no 70mm 6-track so CDS or new 5.1 mix for laser, dvd and blu? |
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| Author: | disclord [ 13 Mar 2013, 20:39 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cinema Digital Sound aka kodac and found on sony recieve |
tim_p wrote: Having had a poke around film-tech, in70mm, imdb and of course lddb I've summarised the CDS mixed films on home video and am wondering what's what. I can see something like T2 being too much of a temptation to remix hence, per your posts disclord, it's the original Artisan dvd that is required but what about mix sources for the others bearing in mind that not every film was a six-track/5.1 mix? Straightforward Terminator 2 - original Artisan dvd CDS 5.1 mix Dick Tracy - blu ray is lossless version of CDS 5.1 dvd mix? Days of Thunder - as above? The Doors - blu ray is some 7.1 abomination, so it's the AC3 laser or 5.1 dvd for CDS? Not so straightforward Edward Scissorhands - blu ray is 4.0 and laser is Dolby Surround - CDS or Dolby SR? Hudson Hawk - laser is Dolby Surround and dvd is DD 2.0 so CDS or Dolby SR? For the Boys - as above plus dvd has a 'new' 4.1 mix - who knows?! Final Approach - Dolby Surround on laser only so CDS or Dolby SR? Flatliners - no CDS theatrical release in the US so the 5.1 mix on blu would (still) be CDS sourced, 70mm 6-track sourced or new mix for home video? Laser is Dolby Surround and dvd is DD 2.0. Universal Soldier - as above but no 70mm 6-track so CDS or new 5.1 mix for laser, dvd and blu? A number of the CDS films were 4.0 mixes, like The Doors and Edward Scissorhands and the DVD's replicate that. For the Boys was a 4.1 CDS mix. A number of the CDS films were mixed for Dolby Stereo release so had 4 track discrete master mixes and the CDS was a last minute change. Even titles like Waterworld were not 5.1 theatrically in DTS - it was 5.0 and some were 4.0. So, 4.0, 4.1 and 5.1 are all represented in CDS mixes and some have been transferred correctly to disc - others have had remixes. I dont know about all the titles - just the ones I enquired about back when they had their original DVD releases. BTW, CDS was a lossless system - although it used compression, it used a custom delta modulation PCM system with a bit rate of just over 5mbps on film. It was the highest quality of all the film formats. |
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| Author: | elieb [ 14 Mar 2013, 00:59 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cinema Digital Sound aka kodac and found on sony recieve |
so if i used dolby digital, it would sound the same, opposed to the 3 modes on the sony? |
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| Author: | disclord [ 14 Mar 2013, 02:07 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cinema Digital Sound aka kodac and found on sony recieve |
elieb wrote: so if i used dolby digital, it would sound the same, opposed to the 3 modes on the sony? The modes on the Sony are NOT Cinema Digital Sound. They are Digital Cinema Sound, Sony's trademark for their DSP systems that screw with the sound. They have NOTHING to do with each other. |
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| Author: | laserbite34 [ 14 Mar 2013, 06:48 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cinema Digital Sound aka kodac and found on sony recieve |
disclord wrote: elieb wrote: so if i used dolby digital, it would sound the same, opposed to the 3 modes on the sony? The modes on the Sony are NOT Cinema Digital Sound. They are Digital Cinema Sound, Sony's trademark for their DSP systems that screw with the sound. They have NOTHING to do with each other. I could have easily said that in my sleep. Also it has nothing to do with SDDS  it has nothing to do with SDDS.
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| Author: | sartana [ 02 Nov 2013, 09:44 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cinema Digital Sound aka kodac and found on sony recieve |
disclord wrote: BTW, CDS was a lossless system - although it used compression, it used a custom delta modulation PCM system with a bit rate of just over 5mbps on film. It was the highest quality of all the film formats. Although I agree CDS was the highest quality of all film formats including SDDS, I am not sure if it was %100 lossless. On the other hand, Strong International had developed a digital soundtrack which was a dual system with the sound being on Laserdiscs and they claimed it was the only true CD quality linear soundtrack. The people who heard it confirmed that it was even more impressive than CDS. Unfortunately "Strong Digital" never managed to get any titles and the project was laid to rest. |
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| Author: | sdraper [ 03 Nov 2013, 00:30 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cinema Digital Sound aka kodac and found on sony recieve |
It would be interesting to know if these mixes made it to BD untouched. Tracy's DTS 5.1 track on the DVD is excellent. |
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| Author: | elieb [ 10 Dec 2014, 20:45 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cinema Digital Sound aka kodac and found on sony recieve |
changing topic: is there a list of all CDS/DCS encoded LD's? |
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| Author: | laserbite34 [ 12 Dec 2014, 02:11 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cinema Digital Sound aka kodac and found on sony recieve |
DCS has nothing to do with CDS. No there are no DCS on laserdisc. 
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| Author: | elieb [ 16 Dec 2014, 00:24 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cinema Digital Sound aka kodac and found on sony recieve |
okay, all i need to know is: does both boxsets of the doors have the cds audio mix? the dvd does not. |
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| Author: | signofzeta [ 16 Dec 2014, 19:54 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cinema Digital Sound aka kodac and found on sony recieve |
disclord wrote: CDS was just a method of putting digital sound on a print and not a system ever meant for home use. Many AC-3 LaserDisc's and DVD's use the 5.1 mix that was used for the CDS prints. Dick Tracy and The Doors and the first DVD release of T2 (and the AC-3 LD's ) all use the mix done for the CDS system. So again, it's not needed as we already have the CDS mixes available.
And Pro Logic II is a 2 channel decoding matrix system, not a discrete format so it can't ever recreate the same effects as a discrete system. |
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| Author: | elieb [ 16 Dec 2014, 22:53 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cinema Digital Sound aka kodac and found on sony recieve |
signofzeta wrote: disclord wrote: CDS was just a method of putting digital sound on a print and not a system ever meant for home use. Many AC-3 LaserDisc's and DVD's use the 5.1 mix that was used for the CDS prints. Dick Tracy and The Doors and the first DVD release of T2 (and the AC-3 LD's ) all use the mix done for the CDS system. So again, it's not needed as we already have the CDS mixes available. And Pro Logic II is a 2 channel decoding matrix system, not a discrete format so it can't ever recreate the same effects as a discrete system. let me put it this way: does Doors, The (1991) [PSE96-080] which has the cds mix, is also the same on Doors, The (1991) [PSE96-77]? because i don't know which one to buy. elie |
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| Author: | blam1 [ 18 Dec 2014, 00:25 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cinema Digital Sound aka kodac and found on sony recieve |
Both of the Pioneer Special Edition versions of "The Doors" were derived from the same audio master. |
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| Author: | elieb [ 18 Dec 2014, 01:23 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cinema Digital Sound aka kodac and found on sony recieve |
blam1 wrote: Both of the Pioneer Special Edition versions of "The Doors" were derived from the same audio master. thank you very much, that's what i was looking for. 
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| Author: | 2xfile [ 13 Feb 2015, 09:53 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cinema Digital Sound aka kodac and found on sony recieve |
I'm A little late to this party - but please let me jump in here. OK - 1st of all - CDS Audio was recorded without data compression, but instead of using a 16-bit linear PCM scale, it used a custom 12-bit logarithmic scale that produced excellent sound. I believe it was introduces w/ a 70mm print of Dick Tracy - however, I remember seeing Fantasia in the 90's - For its fiftieth anniversary, and I thought? CDS was employed on that print ( in limited markets) as well...? Possible? The only 411 I can find is " The film underwent a two-year restoration process and this marked the first time that a release of the film had been processed from the original negative and not from a copy and the original Stokowski soundtrack was digitally remastered using a 1955 magnetic soundtrack ( 70mm?) - and Theaters were required to have specific stereo equipment installed !!!," So, while I can not verify this for a fact - I believe I heard THAT Digital Soundtrack - presented in CDS! Could be mistaken - but right now I'm sticking to it . However- my question is - does anyone know if any Blu-ray release has an exact uncompressed -( NOT Dolby Digital !) LPCM copy of any of the original CDS mixes ? of any of the films in which it was utilized ???? Thank YOU in advance - Will |
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| Author: | dvdmike007 [ 11 May 2015, 18:51 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cinema Digital Sound aka kodac and found on sony recieve |
Nothing has the LPCM mix on Blu. But there are a few in TrueHD and DTS-HD |
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