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Capturing PCM soundtrack to a computer
https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4751		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  signofzeta [ 08 Mar 2015, 20:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Capturing PCM soundtrack to a computer
TOSLINK or SPDIF?
Author:  mercury77 [ 08 Mar 2015, 21:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: Capturing PCM soundtrack to a computer
the only reason I record at 96/24 is that I like to create personal SACD's to listen to these tracks. If I was re-sample after the fact it would create errors and distortion not found in the original, but when you are recording anything it is unaware of the sample rate and bitrate of what is coming, it simply just records in the set bitrate and sample rate it has been told too and therefore if I record at 96/24, it is 96/24 from a source of lesser actual quality, but that becomes relative to what is input in. I do record the analogue tracks as well as the digital in some instances.
Author:  nissling [ 08 Mar 2015, 21:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Capturing PCM soundtrack to a computer
mercury77 wrote:
If I was re-sample after the fact it would create errors and distortion not found in the original,

Ever heard of dither? ;) I highly doubt you could tell a 44.1/16 re-sample from its 96/24 source in a blind test if down-sampling is done correct. Even 44.1/12 will be enough for most music.
Author:  confederate [ 08 Mar 2015, 23:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Capturing PCM soundtrack to a computer
signofzeta wrote:
TOSLINK or SPDIF?


SPDIF as I am using the Laserdisc's direct output.

I guess it does not really matter whether it is bitperfect or not as I doubt that anyone could seriously hear the
difference.
Author:  signofzeta [ 10 Mar 2015, 16:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Capturing PCM soundtrack to a computer
mercury77 wrote:
the only reason I record at 96/24 is that I like to create personal SACD's to listen to these tracks. If I was re-sample after the fact it would create errors and distortion not found in the original, but when you are recording anything it is unaware of the sample rate and bitrate of what is coming, it simply just records in the set bitrate and sample rate it has been told too and therefore if I record at 96/24, it is 96/24 from a source of lesser actual quality, but that becomes relative to what is input in. I do record the analogue tracks as well as the digital in some instances.


You're in too deep. Upsampling CD sound to SACD rates is useless technical trickery that is likely to have zero effect on the listener. Even a pro SACD is difficult to absorb, something upsampled by automated process can only produce something identical to the original or something worse. You can't make signal resolution from thin air. It's either there or it isn't.

If I send you a ten page email and when you receive it you decide you'd rather it was a 20 page email, there aren't a lot of choices. You can quadrupole space the thing or you can write 10 more pages. Either way, it won't be my email anymore and the choices are "the same" or "messed up".

This reminds me of:

Part One: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kAoDwRiPdRI

Part Two: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j56VVvYSQaw
Author:  confederate [ 11 Mar 2015, 11:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Capturing PCM soundtrack to a computer
My Gang Related LD has arrived today. Despite being a late DADC USA product it is perfect, no rot whatsoever.

Now I need to find a suitable external sound card with digital in(put) to capture the PCM stream.
Author:  signofzeta [ 11 Mar 2015, 20:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Capturing PCM soundtrack to a computer
I use one of these:

http://www.alesis.com/io2

But really just about anything will do as long as it's not a malfunctioning piece of crap. Recording all-digital is slightly more complicated than boiling water on a stove.
Author:  little-endian [ 29 Aug 2015, 14:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Capturing PCM soundtrack to a computer
signofzeta wrote:
TOSLINK or SPDIF?
This is technically an invalid question since S/PDIF is a standard to transfer digital data between audio devices in realtime whereas Toslink is a connector for the optical variant of the transfer which can perfectly happen electronically as well, mostly using RCA-connectors in this case. By its very own definition, the content will be the same despite any possible jitter differences whose effect is totally overrated anyway.

nissling wrote:
Even 44.1/12 will be enough for most music.
I can only emphasize this statement, very true. I would even go further and claim that for the nowadays commercial charts, which would better be described as noise instead of music, even 8 bits per sample would be a waste.
Author:  nissling [ 29 Aug 2015, 15:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Capturing PCM soundtrack to a computer
Hm, I'm not sure. I know that most modern have very low dynamic range but 8-bit would give quite some quantization and dither should most likely be very noticeable.
Author:  little-endian [ 29 Aug 2015, 18:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Capturing PCM soundtrack to a computer
Properly dithered 8-bit-PCM should give you about 45 dB of SNR which is still on a par with the compact cassette which was good enough for decades when music had still a way higher dynamic range.

Neither the dithering noise should be much of a problem if shifted to a higher frequency range. It will be furthermore be masked by sound level driven to the maximum virtually all of the time.

8 bits should really be able to cover the nowadays pathetic dynamic range of a few dB easily.
Author:  nissling [ 30 Aug 2015, 05:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Capturing PCM soundtrack to a computer
I know about the SNR of course, but with 8-bit there should certainly be some distortion. Either way I can try to rip some of my moderns CDs and convert them to 44.1/8 in Audacity. Remember doing so with a couple of Dire Straits album. Noise and quantization was awfully bad. Can publish results with measures from MasVis (great software).

EDIT: Tried Glamorous by Fergie. It's a loud song and with 8-bit both distortion and noise was very audible even with my cheap AKG headphone. Don't want to try it out on my piP...

Image
Author:  little-endian [ 30 Aug 2015, 05:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Capturing PCM soundtrack to a computer
With properly applied dither, there won't be any distortion but only a higher noise level and thus lower SNR. What's it, so the only question is if the relatively low SNR of maybe 45 dB will be high enough to be masked by trashy pushed-to-the-maximum-material.

Furthermore, I doubt that Dire Straits is the best choice in this case. The best bet would be some compressed-to-death charts stuff which should be easy to find. However, if Dire Straits' album "Brothers in Arms" keeps to be re-released consistently, who knows if some day, 4 bits won't be sufficient. ;)
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