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 Post subject: Re: Titles with impressive AC-3 Dolby
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2020, 20:50 
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Yeah. In LD days you knew a guy had a sub because it’s required to even hear 5.1 but for DVD they had to make mixes compatible with the crappy speakers that fit into TVs that are only 2” thick and some of that stuff gets completely confused by excessive bass. Horrible waves of nonsense coming out of those little Bluetooth pieces of bleep when the low freqs get thick.
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 Post subject: Re: Titles with impressive AC-3 Dolby
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2020, 07:49 
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signofzeta wrote:
Yeah. In LD days you knew a guy had a sub because it’s required to even hear 5.1 but for DVD they had to make mixes compatible with the crappy speakers that fit into TVs that are only 2” thick and some of that stuff gets completely confused by excessive bass. Horrible waves of nonsense coming out of those little Bluetooth pieces of bleep when the low freqs get thick.


I'm sure there were plenty of folks that had invested in high-end ProLogic setups without a powered sub that just added an AC3 demodulator/decoder to their existing setup and ran 5.0...
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 Post subject: Re: Titles with impressive AC-3 Dolby
PostPosted: 21 Sep 2020, 09:04 
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5.0 prologic was still fantastic in those days
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 Post subject: Re: Titles with impressive AC-3 Dolby
PostPosted: 21 Sep 2020, 16:55 
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shopkins82 wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
Yeah. In LD days you knew a guy had a sub because it’s required to even hear 5.1 but for DVD they had to make mixes compatible with the crappy speakers that fit into TVs that are only 2” thick and some of that stuff gets completely confused by excessive bass. Horrible waves of nonsense coming out of those little Bluetooth pieces of bleep when the low freqs get thick.


I'm sure there were plenty of folks that had invested in high-end ProLogic setups without a powered sub that just added an AC3 demodulator/decoder to their existing setup and ran 5.0...


Yes, of course. The point is you didn’t have people trying to play AC-3 through TV speakers and sound bars. It was assumed that you had a real system since you spent $1000+ on just being able to hear AC-3 at all.
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 Post subject: Re: Titles with impressive AC-3 Dolby
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2020, 08:15 
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I wasnt fortunate enough to hear AC-3 in the LD hayday but i do still clearly remember watching movies like Toy Story and Jurassic Park in 5.0 Prologic and being very impressed
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 Post subject: Re: Titles with impressive AC-3 Dolby
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2020, 14:37 
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admin wrote:
knatterbuechse wrote:
And yeah, "Saving Private Ryan" is another good example of what an uncompressed AC3 soundtrack can sound like.


AC3 on LD is very, very much compressed, at a fixed 384kbps to be precise.
DVD is usually 448kbps up to 640kbps.
AC3 on BluRay can't go higher than 640kbps (to keep backwards hardware compatibility I presume).

That's why they came up with DD+ (up to 6.144Mbps but a lot of online video streaming offer only 48kbps) and Dolby True HD for uncompressed lossless (up to 18 Mbps) to go beyond these limitations.

Julien


My bad - I honestly thought that the AC3 soundtracks on LDs weren't compressed. Guess I should've done a little bit of research on that topic before posting. Duh! But thanks for the detailed information Julien. As I do own versions of Saving Private Ryan on both LD and DVD I usually prefer watching the LD version because to my ears the sound is a lot better (heavier) on this one. Maybe it's due to a different mix?
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 Post subject: Re: Titles with impressive AC-3 Dolby
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2020, 14:56 
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knatterbuechse wrote:
Maybe it's due to a different mix?


Exactly.

Bandwidth tells you how much data you can store.
Mix tells you what data was actually stored.

And there is an endless discussion on "near-fied" (home version) and "far-field" (theater version) mixes.

LDs usually got the theater mix as-is.

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 Post subject: Re: Titles with impressive AC-3 Dolby
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2020, 03:17 
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Spun up: English Patient, The (1996) [12047 AS]

Was very impressed with the AC-3 Dolby in this title, rears are quite active and the plane scenes sounds amazing.

The picture i thought was very very grand,
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 Post subject: Re: Titles with impressive AC-3 Dolby
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2020, 08:31 
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jakeheke wrote:
Spun up: English Patient, The (1996) [12047 AS]

Was very impressed with the AC-3 Dolby in this title, rears are quite active and the plane scenes sounds amazing.

The picture i thought was very very grand,



Interesting to learn this as it was amongst the very first batch of DVDs that I ever purchased back then and one that I've only ever seen on that format. Always wondered how many of these late release LDs (1997-2000ish) compared, some such as The Fifth Element and Saving Private Ryan I've managed to acquire and they certainly compare more than favourably but movies such as this and The Matrix etc. I have yet to see.
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 Post subject: Re: Titles with impressive AC-3 Dolby
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2020, 05:53 
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Its worth getting on LD for its price,
Im sure it was one of the first titles i got on DVD also.
Give it a rewatch GB , romantic film for your wife and yourself :)
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 Post subject: Re: Titles with impressive AC-3 Dolby
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2020, 08:29 
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jakeheke wrote:
Its worth getting on LD for its price,
Im sure it was one of the first titles i got on DVD also.
Give it a rewatch GB , romantic film for your wife and yourself :)


Seriously doubt it Jake, sadly it seems her preference is for anything reality tv or watching the endless talent? shows we are bombarded with these days, most of which drive me nuts :roll:

On the other hand my teenage daughter can't get enough of evenings in the home theatre with me but usually to view music related stuff such as Genesis, Floyd, Eagles and anything decent that's 80s related!
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 Post subject: Re: Titles with impressive AC-3 Dolby
PostPosted: 05 Oct 2020, 08:31 
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Which version of The English Patient should I pick up? Regular AC3, Criterion AC3, or DTS (looks like prices ascend in that order, around $6, $15, and $35 respectively... I probably wouldn't pay the premium for the DTS)? Looks like Criterion is the same cut of the film (162 minutes), so any PQ/SQ differences (I'm guessing not)? Not a Criterion collector or a Special Features person, so only really care about PQ/SQ.
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 Post subject: Re: Titles with impressive AC-3 Dolby
PostPosted: 05 Oct 2020, 10:11 
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shopkins82 wrote:
Which version of The English Patient should I pick up? Regular AC3, Criterion AC3, or DTS (looks like prices ascend in that order, around $6, $15, and $35 respectively... I probably wouldn't pay the premium for the DTS)? Looks like Criterion is the same cut of the film (162 minutes), so any PQ/SQ differences (I'm guessing not)? Not a Criterion collector or a Special Features person, so only really care about PQ/SQ.



Had to chime in ....

The English Patient is an epic production.
Story, top tier acting cast, and cinematography to take the breath away...

Whatever version you choose, a fantastic yarn for the shelves....

Excited for your part....

Cheers to the membership
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 Post subject: Re: Titles with impressive AC-3 Dolby
PostPosted: 05 Oct 2020, 10:39 
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Slightly OT, I remember getting The English Patient on VHS when it was first released. Absolutely no idea what compelled me to buy it. Another in my own long history of blind buys!

It's a great film. An epic. I remember passing round that VHS to a good few folks to spur them on to watch it too. If it's out on UHD Blu, or even a simple little Blu disc, I'm tempted to watch it again. If I was going for the LD, I would be drawn more to the DTS disc rather than the AC-3. Personal preference. Maybe it's not the best version?
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 Post subject: Re: Titles with impressive AC-3 Dolby
PostPosted: 05 Oct 2020, 23:30 
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I grabbed the regular AC3 for $4 shipped.
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 Post subject: Re: Titles with impressive AC-3 Dolby
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2020, 21:51 
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The Matrix.

It's AC3 track is absolutely banging.
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 Post subject: Re: Titles with impressive AC-3 Dolby
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2020, 09:32 
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shopkins82 wrote:
I grabbed the regular AC3 for $4 shipped.


Can't go wrong with that :thumbup:
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 Post subject: Re: Titles with impressive AC-3 Dolby
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2020, 16:33 
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It's always a tough decision, because I could have bought the Blu-ray for the same price! It's weird that I'll pay more for an LD sometimes, still buy plenty of Blu and UHD, but won't even touch a regular DVD any more!
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 Post subject: Re: Titles with impressive AC-3 Dolby
PostPosted: 16 Oct 2020, 14:04 
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admin wrote:
knatterbuechse wrote:
Maybe it's due to a different mix?


Exactly.

Bandwidth tells you how much data you can store.
Mix tells you what data was actually stored.

And there is an endless discussion on "near-fied" (home version) and "far-field" (theater version) mixes.

LDs usually got the theater mix as-is.

Julien


Ah, thanks for the information Julien!

And as ldfan mentioned Event Horizon in one of his posts... found a copy of the NTSC version for a few bucks and yes, the surround sound on this one is really good!

therussian wrote:
The Matrix.

It's AC3 track is absolutely banging.


Indeed! I still own the first edition of the german DVD release (my first DVD!) and - compared to the LD version - it pretty much sucks. Not only because of the soundtrack - which sounds a bit dull on the DVD (both german and english audio tracks) - but also because of the picture/details. On the LD version the colors, especially the green tones, look way better. And there are a lot more details visible during dark scenes and/or backgrounds - on the DVD the same backgrounds appear rather flat and a lot of the fine details are gone. I'm missing "depth", if you will. From what I remember the LD was mastered using the theater version whereas it was remixed / remastered for the DVD release?
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 Post subject: Re: Titles with impressive AC-3 Dolby
PostPosted: 16 Oct 2020, 16:34 
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knatterbuechse wrote:
admin wrote:
knatterbuechse wrote:
Maybe it's due to a different mix?


Exactly.

Bandwidth tells you how much data you can store.
Mix tells you what data was actually stored.

And there is an endless discussion on "near-fied" (home version) and "far-field" (theater version) mixes.

LDs usually got the theater mix as-is.

Julien


Ah, thanks for the information Julien!

And as ldfan mentioned Event Horizon in one of his posts... found a copy of the NTSC version for a few bucks and yes, the surround sound on this one is really good!

therussian wrote:
The Matrix.

It's AC3 track is absolutely banging.


Indeed! I still own the first edition of the german DVD release (my first DVD!) and - compared to the LD version - it pretty much sucks. Not only because of the soundtrack - which sounds a bit dull on the DVD (both german and english audio tracks) - but also because of the picture/details. On the LD version the colors, especially the green tones, look way better. And there are a lot more details visible during dark scenes and/or backgrounds - on the DVD the same backgrounds appear rather flat and a lot of the fine details are gone. I'm missing "depth", if you will. From what I remember the LD was mastered using the theater version whereas it was remixed / remastered for the DVD release?


I'm similar to you in purchasing the first UK release back then and I'm guessing all our R2 European versions used the same master regardless of country? I've yet to see the LD version sadly but can remember back in around 2000 seeing an extended demo at the annual Manchester Sound & Vision Show where they were showing The Matrix on a rather high end Barco CRT projection system coupled to an equally exotic looking Snell & Willcox video processing setup. The PQ was actually stunning but I'm doubtful that the DVD used was the PAL R2 version as it looked so superior to my own copy.
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