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 Post subject: Loud buzzing noise: is this an audio issue?
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2021, 14:43 
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Advice needed, apologies if am being dumb.
I had both digital and analog connected to my player but unplugged the red and white leads as they seemed pointless.
I’ve now learned that commentaries are stored on the channels of the analogue tracks so put them back in.
However, when I play boogie nights the commentary sounds fine but If I select stereo or track two (which is apparently a digital track) I get a loud buzzing noise. None of my other discs do this (although I don’t believe they have extra tracks). If I press the analogue/digital button on my remote the sound disappears and is perfectly fine.
Is this normal or is my film damaged?
I am using a pioneer 2950
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 Post subject: Re: Is this an audio issue?
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2021, 15:39 
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I'm guessing this is Boogie Nights: Special Edition #366 (1997) [CC1521L] and when you select Analog Right, you are reading the AC3RF data.

You're not supposed to do that => https://www.lddb.com/help/sound/

Select "Analog/Left" only for the commentary, not "Analog/Stereo".

Julien
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 Post subject: Re: Is this an audio issue?
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2021, 16:14 
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admin wrote:

You're not supposed to do that => https://www.lddb.com/help/sound/

Select "Analog/Left" only for the commentary, not "Analog/Stereo".

Julien

Thank you Julien that makes sense. I was concerned my film was faulty.
I have been looking at that chart but still can't get my head around it. So AC3 is the same as Dolby Digital and is essentially 5.1? Is that right?
Sorry the sound side is really offputting, I'm kind of wishing I didn't buy this machine if it can't properly play discs.
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 Post subject: Re: Is this an audio issue?
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2021, 16:27 
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Just buy the correct discs that don't have DTS or AC3.

Buy only Dolby Surround 4.0 or 4.1 stereo or mono discs.

If your goal with LD is surround then get ready for some fun times ahead.
That's why I only use a 2 channel setup, my music and movies always sound great with no issues, just buy a really, really good pair of speakers.
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 Post subject: Re: Is this an audio issue?
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2021, 16:33 
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strideristhebest wrote:
admin wrote:

You're not supposed to do that => https://www.lddb.com/help/sound/

Select "Analog/Left" only for the commentary, not "Analog/Stereo".

Julien

Thank you Julien that makes sense. I was concerned my film was faulty.
I have been looking at that chart but still can't get my head around it. So AC3 is the same as Dolby Digital and is essentially 5.1? Is that right?
Sorry the sound side is really offputting, I'm kind of wishing I didn't buy this machine if it can't properly play discs.


From what you are saying it’s playing perfectly. I think you maybe just don’t like LD.
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 Post subject: Re: Is this an audio issue?
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2021, 17:02 
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signofzeta wrote:
strideristhebest wrote:
admin wrote:

You're not supposed to do that => https://www.lddb.com/help/sound/

Select "Analog/Left" only for the commentary, not "Analog/Stereo".

Julien

Thank you Julien that makes sense. I was concerned my film was faulty.
I have been looking at that chart but still can't get my head around it. So AC3 is the same as Dolby Digital and is essentially 5.1? Is that right?
Sorry the sound side is really offputting, I'm kind of wishing I didn't buy this machine if it can't properly play discs.


From what you are saying it’s playing perfectly. I think you maybe just don’t like LD.

I guess what I mean is I wish I bought a machine that can play these discs. I feel like I'm missing out by having discs with audio that I can't access.
I think I will take a look at my amp next and work out how I convert tracks into the surround that will use my rear speakers. There's a lot of different sound symbols on the back of discs and it's a little bewildering.
I'm loving my actual player even though the picture isn't as good as blu-ray or 4k. There's a cosiness to the films which I really like. I just want to ensure I'm watching films in the best possible way and with this player it doesn't seem like I can do that.
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 Post subject: Re: Is this an audio issue?
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2021, 17:04 
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rein-o wrote:
Just buy the correct discs that don't have DTS or AC3.

Buy only Dolby Surround 4.0 or 4.1 stereo or mono discs.

If your goal with LD is surround then get ready for some fun times ahead.
That's why I only use a 2 channel setup, my music and movies always sound great with no issues, just buy a really, really good pair of speakers.

I've been told that DTS will pass through my optical lead which is why I've ordered Jurassic Park.
What is 4.0? Two front speakers and two back?
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 Post subject: Re: Is this an audio issue?
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2021, 17:23 
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strideristhebest wrote:
I've been told that DTS will pass through my optical lead which is why I've ordered Jurassic Park.
What is 4.0? Two front speakers and two back?

If you have a modern receiver, DTS should work fine through your optical output.

"4.0" is misleading. It refers to 2.0 stereo tracks on disc that in production were downmixed from 4.0 sources (left, center, right, rear) in a such a way that a receiver can roughly split it up into the original 4.0 mix on the fly and map it to your speakers appropriately. On the database this will typically be labelled "Dolby Surround." As far as cabling is concerned they are simple stereo tracks.

Quote:
I think I will take a look at my amp next and work out how I convert tracks into the surround that will use my rear speakers.

Yes, get to know your amp better. Any modern amp should have modes that use all speakers even when playing back two-channel sound.

The best thing to do is read, read, read. Read your amp's manual, read your player's manual.
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 Post subject: Re: Is this an audio issue?
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2021, 18:48 
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strideristhebest wrote:
I guess what I mean is I wish I bought a machine that can play these discs. I feel like I'm missing out by having discs with audio that I can't access.


Well, at this point in time, any machine is a good machine so long as it works. So wouldn't feel bad about that. And even if you had a player that had all the bells and whistles, Dolby AC3 would still be a problem for you since you still need the AC3-RF Demodulator or Processor to extract the soundtrack properly for your AV Receiver.


strideristhebest wrote:
I think I will take a look at my amp next and work out how I convert tracks into the surround that will use my rear speakers. There's a lot of different sound symbols on the back of discs and it's a little bewildering.


Watch all these videos on YouTube from Culture Dog. I think he does a good job of simplifying all the audio options from beginning to end. There are five videos total and watch them in that order.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB1q5Vg ... ci&index=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE2LmGJ ... ci&index=2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXEC3-g ... ci&index=3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kApU0gl ... ci&index=4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6M7gnp ... ci&index=5


strideristhebest wrote:
I'm loving my actual player even though the picture isn't as good as blu-ray or 4k. There's a cosiness to the films which I really like. I just want to ensure I'm watching films in the best possible way and with this player it doesn't seem like I can do that.


And then watch his video on this as well....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkxJhmLZ-tg&t=2432s
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 Post subject: Re: Loud buzzing noise: is this an audio issue?
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2021, 19:31 
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This is all being inflated way out of proportion...

LD is a latently stereo format. The 5.1 stuff was added on 15 years after the start of the format and is not essential to enjoying LD. Don’t FIXATE on it like this, it barely matters. It’s a cool hack and that’s about it, like Enhanced audio CDs with QuickTime videos on them. Worry about it later. Your player can’t do AC-3 anyway so you’re hundreds of dollars and multiple broken eBay players away from the Dolby Digital LD experience. Learn up on what you have already before buying more stuff. More stuff will only bring more confusion.

When LD launched it had two tracks of analog sound, much like a tape. You could use stereo sound or two different mono tracks (commentary, isolated score, languages, etc). Later on they added CD quality digital sound into the format sacrificing nothing. So if you have later discs and later players you have two different stereo tracks to chose from. Depending on what disc you have you may want to listen to stereo analog, stereo Digital, or just the Left or Right from one of them. This is why you are able to select them that way. All of this is in the manual for any LD player.

Any two channel stereo (tapes, records, Gamecube games) can contain a matrixed four channel system. Dolby Pro Logic is the name used for the multiple systems used to unfold “2.0” into four channel Dolby Stereo/Dolby Surround. I hesitate to use terms like “4.0” because it was never used in period literature and can only cause confusion. Also, it *isn’t* 4.0 because it isn’t discrete, only the master was. The LD version is 2.0 with available separation via matrixing, which isn’t the same and doesn’t sound the same.

Your amp will do Pro Logic because newer versions are built into the specs of newer formats for the purposes of auto down mixing and reconstitution (cable TV). Therefore you can get Dolby Surround (earlier analog version of Dolby Digital) from probably every movie you have on LD that had it in the theater using the stuff you have right now, from either the analog or Digital stereo tracks. Star Wars, for example. If you have any Star Wars LD, your LD player, and any Dolby certified Surround receiver you have all you need for Dolby Surround. The vast VAST majority of LD owners in the 90s only ever experienced LD home theater this way. The 5.1 stuff was borderline millionaire grade gear. A niche of a niche. A sub basement in the basement of LD.

It’s your stuff, read the manuals and learn how to use it. You can do it. When you’ve come to know what you already have then when you go to learn about 5.1 you likely won’t have any questions, it will all make sense.
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 Post subject: Re: Loud buzzing noise: is this an audio issue?
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2021, 15:05 
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signofzeta wrote:
This is all being inflated way out of proportion...

LD is a latently stereo format. The 5.1 stuff was added on 15 years after the start of the format and is not essential to enjoying LD. Don’t FIXATE on it like this, it barely matters. It’s a cool hack and that’s about it, like Enhanced audio CDs with QuickTime videos on them. Worry about it later. Your player can’t do AC-3 anyway so you’re hundreds of dollars and multiple broken eBay players away from the Dolby Digital LD experience. Learn up on what you have already before buying more stuff. More stuff will only bring more confusion.

When LD launched it had two tracks of analog sound, much like a tape. You could use stereo sound or two different mono tracks (commentary, isolated score, languages, etc). Later on they added CD quality digital sound into the format sacrificing nothing. So if you have later discs and later players you have two different stereo tracks to chose from. Depending on what disc you have you may want to listen to stereo analog, stereo Digital, or just the Left or Right from one of them. This is why you are able to select them that way. All of this is in the manual for any LD player.

Any two channel stereo (tapes, records, Gamecube games) can contain a matrixed four channel system. Dolby Pro Logic is the name used for the multiple systems used to unfold “2.0” into four channel Dolby Stereo/Dolby Surround. I hesitate to use terms like “4.0” because it was never used in period literature and can only cause confusion. Also, it *isn’t* 4.0 because it isn’t discrete, only the master was. The LD version is 2.0 with available separation via matrixing, which isn’t the same and doesn’t sound the same.

Your amp will do Pro Logic because newer versions are built into the specs of newer formats for the purposes of auto down mixing and reconstitution (cable TV). Therefore you can get Dolby Surround (earlier analog version of Dolby Digital) from probably every movie you have on LD that had it in the theater using the stuff you have right now, from either the analog or Digital stereo tracks. Star Wars, for example. If you have any Star Wars LD, your LD player, and any Dolby certified Surround receiver you have all you need for Dolby Surround. The vast VAST majority of LD owners in the 90s only ever experienced LD home theater this way. The 5.1 stuff was borderline millionaire grade gear. A niche of a niche. A sub basement in the basement of LD.

It’s your stuff, read the manuals and learn how to use it. You can do it. When you’ve come to know what you already have then when you go to learn about 5.1 you likely won’t have any questions, it will all make sense.

Thanks for this it makes me feel better. I've got stuff playing via Dolby Surround on my amp now and it sounds better than when I first set things up. It's a shame I can't access the AC3 tracks, but maybe that's something for another day.

I'll watch the videos that were recommended today. The look interesting.
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 Post subject: Re: Loud buzzing noise: is this an audio issue?
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2021, 18:29 
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strideristhebest wrote:
Thanks for this it makes me feel better. I've got stuff playing via Dolby Surround on my amp now and it sounds better than when I first set things up. It's a shame I can't access the AC3 tracks, but maybe that's something for another day.

I'll watch the videos that were recommended today. The look interesting.


It won't be that confusing once you have a chance to absorb it all in.

I would still recommend getting another player if you decide you really want to stick it out. And if you do that, minus well seek out an AC3-RF capable player if you want to eventually get into AC3. Modding your current player for AC3 is also an option but you'll need to understand what needs to be done to make that work.
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 Post subject: Re: Loud buzzing noise: is this an audio issue?
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2021, 18:59 
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My 2 cents. I second signofzeta's general sentiments. There's no reason to fixate on being AC3 capable. It's not that big of a deal.

I went almost two decades coveting AC3-RF players and demodulators. When I finally got them, I almost felt like I wasted my money. It is a cool feature for films where the surround effects are really well done, but it isn't going to change your life. For many movies (like basically anything not an action or space flick), I'd rather listen to the stereo PCM tracks because the sound quality is better.

AC3 is a lossy compression codec similar to MP3 (though slightly better) and as such, introduces artifacts to the audio that can sometimes be heard. Sometimes it's pretty noticeable, and depending on the film, it can be worth the trade-off in pure audio quality or not. That isn't to say it sounds bad... it doesn't. But sometimes you can tell.

As far as discrete digital surround goes, DTS discs are far superior. The quality is better, and there's no expensive demodulator required. Unfortunately, they're less common and considerably more expensive.

tl;dr: IMO, if you come across a player that can output AC3-RF and can find a demodulator at a reasonable price, definitely consider it. But don't be too concerned about it and feel like you're missing something essential to the LD experience. You're simply not.
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