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 Post subject: Criterion Collection going 4K UHD finally!
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2021, 07:02 
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Announced via their mailing-list few days ago:

https://www.criterion.com/shop/browse?popular=coming-soon

First 4K will be....

Citizen Kane
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Mulholland Dr
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Menace II Society
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 Post subject: Re: Criterion Collection going 4K UHD finally!
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2021, 11:48 
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Menace II Society is absolutely magnificent. I've not seen it in aeons but recall renting it on VHS around 1993/94 on a total whim, I knew nothing about the film the cover just got my attention. The tape ended up getting passed around friends before I had to bring the rental back. Everyone enjoyed it. It was around that time we were watching films like Do The Right Thing, White Men Can't Jump, Friday, Above The Rim, Boyz N The Hood and so on. All great films, different genres of course.

Having not seen Menace II Society since then I think I'll go for the 4K release. I already know what I'm in for, a great film, though now hopefully in the best condition it's ever looked. Day one buy for me. :thumbup:
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 Post subject: Re: Criterion Collection going 4K UHD finally!
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2021, 12:12 
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I guess this is nice but to be honest I have a hard time believing that there is any detail left in the negative of movies like Kane that I haven’t seen at 1080p. It’s like releasing Victrola compilations as quad rate DSD files. Eventually I’ll check it out but I’ll believe it when I see it.
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 Post subject: Re: Criterion Collection going 4K UHD finally!
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2021, 14:21 
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I can't believe such a company chose 2 of those 3 to be their first released.
Guess they do know who there customers truly are......

Sad part of CK is that its one of those films that is available on every format you can ever imagine, its not like one hasn't seen it or already owns
2 or more copies somehow.........
Or can't get it at a thrift store for .50 cents on the anniversary DVD, I think I passed it up once a few years ago for a buck, it was too much for me to spend.
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 Post subject: Re: Criterion Collection going 4K UHD finally!
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2021, 14:29 
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It might be good but i rather stick with BD unless its something I will treasure like AKIRA but I don't have a UHD player and my TV is apparently only 720p. Maybe if OZU was chosen I'd be more excited. I still got about 38-40 in my wishlist some OOP that I still need to get.
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 Post subject: Re: Criterion Collection going 4K UHD finally!
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2021, 14:45 
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rein-o wrote:
its not like one hasn't seen it or already owns
2 or more copies somehow.........


Confession. I've never seen Citizen Kane. :oops: I don't recall ever having seen Mulholland Drive either and I do like David Lynch films.

Derailing a little bit, does Criterion sell posters of any of their cover art? I have Foreign Correspondent on Criterion Blu Ray and I love the cover art a lot. I'd be keen to have a framed poster of it if such a thing exists.
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 Post subject: Re: Criterion Collection going 4K UHD finally!
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2021, 15:22 
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teddanson wrote:
rein-o wrote:
its not like one hasn't seen it or already owns
2 or more copies somehow.........


Confession. I've never seen Citizen Kane. :oops: I don't recall ever having seen Mulholland Drive either and I do like David Lynch films.

Derailing a little bit, does Criterion sell posters of any of their cover art? I have Foreign Correspondent on Criterion Blu Ray and I love the cover art a lot. I'd be keen to have a framed poster of it if such a thing exists.

you just have to look in the store and when they run out they don't restock so its limited
but at the moment no posters show up in the gift shop so i don't know the status of anything
https://www.criterion.com/shop/collection/325-gift-shop
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 Post subject: Re: Criterion Collection going 4K UHD finally!
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2021, 16:35 
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Watch Magnificent Ambersons first if you really like Welles.
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 Post subject: Re: Criterion Collection going 4K UHD finally!
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2021, 19:19 
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Kane is one of those movies that tends to “showcase” or lead or legitimize new formats. The thing is, at some point home video surpasses b/w film going through the jittery cameras of the early 40s and going much beyond that is pointless.

Something similar to this is 2001. There is an AC-3 version of 2001. Why? If you really know the film you know it’s entirely on mono elements spread across a very basic sound stage that Dolby Stereo has no problem replicating. The music was from mono or stereo sources. Enormous parts of the movie are either silence, music, or a guy breathing. There is no bass. The AC-3 can only hurt on a good system since the difference in steering has to be nearly zero and the quality of PCM is way better than AC-3.

Now 2001 is on 4K BR. Well, I hope you don’t mind the FX looking faker than ever because they will now that you have 4K resolution.

Akira would be the same way. Now I can see the mite that was crawling on the eyelash trapped under the cel. Terrific. Is this better?

When I saw Do You Remember Love in 1080p I knew that was all I needed for any pre-digital anime.

Now superhero movies, that’s different. Also anything based purely on photography like nature things and such, very welcome in 4K. But do I need to see MASH in 4K? Transformers the Movie? Ghostbusters even?

For me the major upgrade of BR from DVD wasn’t the number of pixels it was the quality of the image overall. DVD just…looks terrible. And although later players do it wonders it’s always obvious that the bit rate is too low. BR pretty much eliminates this as it also increases the resolution. For me I just don’t need 4K if it’s not Blue Planet or sports. I need it for none of my favorite movies that I can think of.
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 Post subject: Re: Criterion Collection going 4K UHD finally!
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2021, 23:48 
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I always thought the biggest advantage of UHD wasn't the added resolution but the HDR...which is pretty pointless on a black & white film.
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 Post subject: Re: Criterion Collection going 4K UHD finally!
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2021, 01:09 
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takeshi666 wrote:
I always thought the biggest advantage of UHD wasn't the added resolution but the HDR...which is pretty pointless on a black & white film.

Less of a point, sure, but HDR has to do with both luminance and color. It allows for more detail retention in both very bright and very dark parts of the screen compared to SDR. I'm not an expert, but as I understand it black and white film has more dynamic range than SDR video.

The other big advantage of UHD is that H.265 is a lot more efficient than H.264. I think even with the resolution bump, a well-authored UHD-BD has fewer compromises to make with bitrate, which is great if you love grain.
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 Post subject: Re: Criterion Collection going 4K UHD finally!
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2021, 02:28 
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signofzeta wrote:
Something similar to this is 2001. There is an AC-3 version of 2001. Why? If you really know the film you know it’s entirely on mono elements spread across a very basic sound stage that Dolby Stereo has no problem replicating. The music was from mono or stereo sources. Enormous parts of the movie are either silence, music, or a guy breathing. There is no bass. The AC-3 can only hurt on a good system since the difference in steering has to be nearly zero and the quality of PCM is way better than AC-3.


I think you picked the wrong example.

2001 was mixed for 6 magnetic stereo tracks for the 70mm version, making it the perfect candidate for an AC3 (and sadly a DTS release that was cancelled) since discrete materials were available to make a surround remix. Surround or Stereo version would be downmixed.

They were quite many blockbusters mixed in 6-track surround for 70mm prints and, no surprise, most of them were among the first 5.1 LDs and DVDs since the remix was easier (not easy though!) to produce. It was a novelty to push new hardware/decoders/TV screens and the LD retained the PCM stereo tracks anyway, no harm done!

https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?sound_mixes=70_mm_6_track

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 Post subject: Re: Criterion Collection going 4K UHD finally!
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2021, 11:25 
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It may have been a six track master but they don’t use it that way and nothing was recorded that way. They didn’t have multichannel music, the entire OST was from things previously released as records. They aren’t quad. Almost nothing pans around the soundscape ever and really at no place it in the movie is there even a scene where sound could pan other than perhaps the part with the monkeys and that is mostly silence. Everything is either barely stereo or pretty much mono. Space is silent in 2001. Breathing is from a mono mic spread 360. It’s a waste of six track, a waste of AC-3, etc. Nobody who knows this movie should be excited about sound upgrades to it. Star Wars? Totally. This is like releasing Annie Hall in Dolby Atmos.
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 Post subject: Re: Criterion Collection going 4K UHD finally!
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2021, 16:17 
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Man this makes me want to spin up 2001 the criterion box I own again.
I remember always sitting up until midnight when they would play it OTA when I was a kid. Seeing the monkey scene and then passing out
and thinking this was the most amazing thing I had ever seen.

SW and Jaws are like made for TV when you compare it to 2001 period.
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 Post subject: Re: Criterion Collection going 4K UHD finally!
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2021, 20:44 
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I love the movie. I’ve seen it 40 times in the last couple of years. It’s so good LOUD.
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 Post subject: Re: Criterion Collection going 4K UHD finally!
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2021, 20:45 
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signofzeta wrote:
It may have been a six track master but they don’t use it that way and nothing was recorded that way. They didn’t have multichannel music, the entire OST was from things previously released as records. They aren’t quad. Almost nothing pans around the soundscape ever and really at no place it in the movie is there even a scene where sound could pan other than perhaps the part with the monkeys and that is mostly silence. Everything is either barely stereo or pretty much mono. Space is silent in 2001. Breathing is from a mono mic spread 360. It’s a waste of six track, a waste of AC-3, etc. Nobody who knows this movie should be excited about sound upgrades to it. Star Wars? Totally. This is like releasing Annie Hall in Dolby Atmos.


I want that silence coming from all 32 speakers.
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