I usually don't post in this section, since I really can't afford squeeze or Muse discs god forbid I save up for a Muse player but I was just curious about what kind of TVs were sold in japan for Muse Hi-vision owners. I've heard MUSE can theoretically surpass Blu ray resolution. Of course today's TVs can't go beyond 1080 (even though 4k is just around the corner) So what kind of TVs were sold alongside the HLD players? Are there any still around, how far did their resolution go? Does anyone have any pictures of these TVs set's?

Sony made some YPBPR sets that would do 1080i. They cost like ten grand. If you watch the movie Until the End of the World there are a bunch of them (for some reason).

There were lots of pro video monitors and prosumer displays that would do it too.

The actual resolution of the consumer Hi-Vision tube sets in the MUSE era was about 800 horizontal lines for the VERY BEST sets - the MUSE compression system in no way approaches Blu-ray - with fast movement it drops to about 300 lines and at its best is about 600 lines which approaches BD, but can't surpass it. Color resolution in MUSE-E (the version used on LD and for direct broadcast) was also dramatically lower than BD.

Hm, interesting. It still sounds like it would kick the living $&%$# out of DVD though, especially the state of the art of DVD when it was introduced.

Albiet, for something 20x the price.

While this might be true for consumer sets, the PRO monitor SONY HDM-2830 I was using boasted with 1000 horizontal lines resolution in its spec sheet.
It was not really designed for MUSE only use tho, but rather for broadcast stuff.
Comparing MUSE to HDTV only works with Scenery Discs anyways, the movies all look pretty bad (IMHO), but if you compare a really well done 1080i MUSE scenery disc
with a 1080i scenery Blu-Ray or HD-DVD (like the japanese Virtual Trip series for example that was published on HD-DVD and BD) then both can look pretty nice.

Just my personal opinion of course.

Sony KW-3200HD TV Set was advertised on the back of HMV-3002.

Released in 1992, one of the (or the ?) first consumer HDTV.
With built in Muse Decoder, 32" screen.

wow! HDTV on a bubblescreen! High resolution with distorted corners

You can't really say "comparing MUSE to HDTV..." because MUSE is just a compression system for HDTV, much like VC-1, AVC or MPEG 2 HD. You have to compare MUSE to specific HD compression systems used for BD or broadcasts. Because of the limitations of electronics at the time of its development, MUSE compresses HDTV signals using a 4 field and 2 field Dot Interlace sub-Nyquist sampling system with the color and luma multiplexed together using Time Compression Integration. Motion vectors are embedded in the signal to prevent blurring and resolution loss during camera pans when the whole image moves - a quasi Constant Luminance system is used too, to give the impression of greater color resolution and prevent high frequency luminance loss when gamma correction is applied.

With still or slowly moving images MUSE is capable of excellent picture quality, but with movement, fast pans, etc.. the color and luma resolution drops down to DVD levels - because of this, a movie compressed with MUSE will always have different resolution all over the screen since different objects are moving at different rates and in different directions. NHK improved MUSE several times, with new ways of encoding the signal that remained compatible with existing decoders - better filters and new ways of folding the spectrum allowed MUSE to have improved resolution on objects that were moving at moderate speeds and greater color resolution for all scenes. They also found better ways to encode films with 3/2 pull down.

BTW, for those who don't know, Hi-Vision does not mean MUSE - Hi-Vision is just a contraction of High Definition Television and means the same thing "HD" does here - Hi-Vision means HDTV, and doesn't make any reference to the method of compressing or delivering the signal. Thus, the Japanese digital HD television system is now called Digital Hi-Vision and MUSE hasn't been used in Japan since August 2007, when all satellite broadcasts of MUSE programs were stopped, much the same way we stopped all NTSC broadcasts here in the US in 2009.

I love that TV set. If I have chance to visit Japan this set is for sure my first target on the list.

At least it would be consistently distorted. Geometry on flat CRTs is pretty naff %99 of the time.

Would it also have that visible pair of wires going across the screen though like old Trinitron computer monitors? I was never a fan of that.

I remember they used to sell MUSE capable TVs at the Exchanges on the US Military bases in Japan, circa 1995-1996. The Widescreen aspects of the TVs were not new to me as I was reading about WS HDTV in Entertainment Weekly since 1992. I was indeed taken aback by all the crazy connections in the back of the TVs; especially since I had just gotten used to seeing S-Video after buying my first LD player shortly before!

The early HD CRTs such as these were 16:10 aspect ratios, rather than the current 16:9, yes?

They weren't supposed to be.
The experimental models were 5:3 aspect ratio, 1.66:1 or 15:9, but Sarnoff Labs came up with the 16:9 ratio fairly early on as a "best fit" for showing material from all the common film formats, & NHK saw that it was good.

As Publius said, NHK had originally settled on a 5:3 aspect ratio but the RCA/Sarnoff Labs discovered the 16:9 ratio as a better fit for all widely used aspect ratios and the NHK quickly accepted it and reengineered their systems to conform to the new aspect ratio. The NHK issued a book on all aspects of Hi-Vision's development and technology and all the systems confirm to the 16:9 ratio - it was one of the few things all the countries could agree on! For those interested in Hi-Vision, MUSE and their development and how they work, there is no better resource than the Hi-Vision book. It was originally very expensive - several hundred dollars - but it can now be found for just a few dollars. It's title is:
High Definition Television: Hi-Vision Technology by the NHK Science and Technical Staff - its all translated into English.
Amazon had both the hardback and paperback versions but it's now out of print but shouldn't be too hard to find. Here's the Amazon link:http://www.amazon.com/High-Definition-Television-Hi-Vision-Technology/dp/1468465384/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1361113924&sr=1-3&keywords=NHK+hi-vision

It's a fascinating read, covering various forms of MUSE, VTR and VCR based Hi-Vision formats, videodisc including VHD and LaserDisc, etc... And it's hard to explain but what really comes through is a pride on the Japanese part that they were creating a flexible next generation TV system - little did they know an American digital compression system would wipe out their whole MUSE for,at.

Also, another fantastic book is called:
Defining Vision: How Broadcasters Lured the Government into Inciting a Revolution in Television, Updated and Expanded [Paperback]
Joel Brinkley (Author)
Here's a link to the Amazon page: http://www.amazon.com/Defining-Vision-Broadcasters-Government-Revolution/dp/0156005972/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1361113924&sr=1-2&keywords=NHK+hi-vision

It deals with the US HDTV race and the half-baked systems submitted, back-stabbing dealings between companies, etc... that lead to our current ATSC HD standard. The hard back is actually better because it has pictures of the test HD systems that the paperback does not.

Oh yeah, just remembered that I posted this previously -- a Pioneer Plasma with a built-in MUSE decoder: Pioneer Plasma TV with built in MUSE decoder

I just now remembered, a few bubble screen HD CRTs were available here in the US as well. Like this RCA 38" . . .



As well as the Loewe Planus and Anaconda CRTs . . .