i just have to ask all the CED fans(if any) was there really anything good about this format? i mean, from what ive read, everytime u played a disc it wore away at the disc AND the player, and most of the discs were in mono lol

and just how the hell do u get a video signal out of a bunch of grooves?

I've never seen one in my life, but the technology is that the stylus will follow the "track" on the disk and, depending on the depth of the groove, will "read" different values of capacitances (remember those RC/RL from your basic electronics classes?) thus altering the resonance frequency and conveying information through a FM (Frequency Modulation) signal.

Turns out, Laserdisc isn't that far. Although laser in nature, it is not digital 0's and 1's at all. Laser will read reflective/non-reflective pits/falls for different lenghts and each transition will be translated into crossings of a signal on a modulated carrier reference signal. This also leads to a FM signal that carries several sub-carriers for video, analog sound, digital EFM and tracks/timing information.

This is the reason why PAL disc (where PAL pictures had more line to encode) could only carry analog or digital tracks: there was not enough space left for both Analog and Digital soundtracks. This seemed to be a good idea until... Dolby Digital arrived, using the right analog channel to stuff even more digital bits in a modulation-within-modulation fashion.

LD is to older computers phone-based MODEM (for MOdulation-DEModulation, digital over analog) what DVD is to modern ADSL/Cable TV internet (digital over digital).

I hope that wasn't too boring!

Julien

The main problems with CED are the following.

1. Skipping & sticking — all discs, even brand new ones, had a tendency for the needle either to skip ahead/back or to get stuck in place. To help deal with this, a "stylus kicker" circuit would read a code similar to LD frame code, & if the same one appeared too many times, bump the stylus ahead.
   
2. Low video quality — to simplify manufacturing, all CEDs were recorded in CAV mode, but to get an hour of video per side, the rotation rate was 450 RPM. In other words, one rotation carried four complete frames of video, as opposed to one frame on CAV LD. The result was that the frequency response at the innermost track (which determines the recorded frequency band) was poor. Therefore, the video FM signal had to be bandwidth-limited to about 3 MHz (as opposed to 4.2 MHz broadcast standard, or up to 5 MHz on LD). This would cut off the 3.58 MHz chroma subcarrier, so the monochrome video was heavily comb-filtered, & the subcarrier was downconverted to a lower frequency. Then, on playback, this process was reversed, rather crudely in general.
   
3. Inconsistent audio — while the format was capable of stereo, not all the players were, which was supposed to make them cheaper (though I'm not sure how, since the cost of the additional circuitry is mere pennies). Accordingly, stereo discs were recorded with a sum/difference system, limiting the possible stereo separation, so that mono players could play back only the sum channel.

It should be noted that the Japanese AHD/VHD format was similar, but used a 10" rather than 12" disc, rotating at 900 RPM. It used a servo-tracking system, so the grooves could be much narrower, & a stylus which rode over the surface rather than in the grooves. Its advantages were higher frequency response, no sticking or skipping, minimal disc or stylus wear, & the ability to hold a still picture (a sequence of 2 frames) for extended periods of time. It was also, for a very long time, the only home video format with a native 3D capability.

You can open them and they make pretty decent frisbees. What irritates me about them is when you see a cool laserdisc collection for sale on craigslist, you ask the right questions and go check them out and they are CEDs. Seriously. I mean what the heck. As to the picture, one of my friends had them. It was ok, the discs were expensive and you could rent a vhs for a buck. They did have a good copy of Return of the King animated though.

I bought the CED version of The Beatles - Let It Be as a collectable or to frame as it has a different cover to the laserdisc/VHS version.
On a good day on Ebay you can get hold of a mint copy for about $10 USD.
I wouldn't dream of buying a CED player though to actually play the disc. For me there were not enough unique music CED discs to justify buying a CED player. I've only seen maybe 2 unique CED music titles not on LD so far and neither were urgent buys.

I might however buy a VHD player as there are some superb concerts only available on VHD even to this day. I've got a few of them already so just need the player which isn't that expensive to pickup and much lighter than an LD player to ship from Japan.

I want to state that there is nothing wrong with a laserdisc fan also being a CED collector. I have over 6,000 LDs and 1,000 CEDs in my collections.

The two are not mutually incomapatible as far as collecting and enjoyment goes. There some misinformation about CEDs posted here and the best way to understand the system and how it works, and resolution, sound quality, etc, is to visit the rather thorough informative website CEDmagic.com and also check out their forum.

Then perhaps some here will see that not only is it a fascinating technology, it is also a very easy technology to maintain for anyone who has an interest in technical matters. Each player is quite stunning in it's mechanical design and operation. Since the discs are not handled, the players remove and set the discs on the turntables to play. The technology would have made Edison marvel and be proud of the advancements to his simple phonograph that enable it to produce video and stereo 5.1 surround sound.

As far as the image quality goes, regardless of technical specs, in actual viewing of a player in top shape, the image is better than VHS of the time and equal to Beta 1, and I would say not really too far off from LDs from the same period of the early 80s. The discs I have with surround sound are actually quite good. And to refute a claim here, it is not true that even brand bew discs will tend to skip. In fact, a good disc being read by a good stylus has the tendency to not skip and rarely skips. The stylus kicker mentioned is there to assist, but good discs with a good stylus rarely needed to use it. And all the players had built in cleaning systems to maintain the stylus and discs.

So I'd hope that the idea of a comparable technology to LDs would be appreciated, rather than sneered at with prejudice just because it's different. We collect LDs for various reasons, and one is the marvelous albeit obsolete technology and we constantly have to put up with silly comments from DVD enthusiasts.

It's the same with CED fans on the CED forum at CEDmagic. They show some interest in LDs yet know little about the technology and have all sorts of misconceptions. Such things that are minimal, like laser-rot or difficulty with self-repair, are all blown out of proportion and make CED fans hesitant to open their minds.

Since Julien wisely saw fit to include a good reference of obsolete video technology, such as CEDs and HD DVDs, here in the LD database, there's no reason to diss any of the old formats, but instead appreciate them for what they are. I also collect HD DVDs and Betamax.

I still say they make good frisbees and that return of the king animated has the best copy with ced. That is my belief and I will stick to it.

Frisbee's are good, the world needs them.
Can not imagine Return of the king on that format.....
What a gem in the rough.....
Wish that would have made it over to LD !

I almost had a heart attack one day. I was going through some laserdiscs and there was a copy of return of the king in there. I almost had a heart attack. As I stood there looking at the think something was a little off. Turns out it was the soundtrack for it. It was a record. I was in major ld mode and it took me a moment to figure it out.

Nobody's stepping on your beliefs. I made no mention of your frisbee notions, but I think since there's a CED forum here, maybe it's better used for appreciation of the format.

But on that frisbee topic, LDs also make good frisbees. In fact better thanks to their heft, they'll ride the air currents better and not get caught up in a slight breeze as CEDs will. DVDs and the like will make lousy frisbees.

A disc of video being used as a frisbee is mostly dumb if you're taking something pretty rare as it is and doing that. I'd say you can easily use all the Officer & Gentleman or On Golden Pond CEDs you like as they are excessively common, but if you do that to something like Texas Chainsaw Massacre or Zombie, recently selling for over $100 each on ebay, well, that's pretty silly. And perhaps paying that amount is silly as well.

Well, if you are talking about Under Seige on laserdisc to be used as a frisbee, yes, it works well, segals blown ego helps the disc stay up there for a long time, ask me I know. They also make wonderful targets for shooting It is awesome to see yet another copy of Aliens being torn to shreds by any caliber of shell. If I can make just one copy of Jurassic Park vanish on laserdisc, my day is complete. My joke is whenever buying a collection of Laserdiscs if Jurassic Park, Aliens, and Blade Runner arent in it something is wrong.

i gotta a rotted copy of heavy metal, i think we'll take it outside and play a few games with it the next time my freinds come over haha, should make a pretty good frisbee

I find CEDs rather attractive, from a visual standpoint. Open the caddy & they're very striking because the grooves are comparable in size to the wavelengths of visible light, so that they create a fascinating diffraction pattern, on a black background. As a video playback medium, however, they're mostly of historical rather than practical interest.

That's true for the general public, and the same can be said of LDs being of historical value mostly because the general public has no use for formats they cannot understand well and cannot handle when a problem arises if an easier alternative is available. Most of those types love a throwaway or out-of-sight media like DVDs and rentals, and they really will get into the streaming on demand stuff that's coming out. They have little use for the wonderful artwork on CEDs and LDs, and little sense when it comes to how such formats operate.

In my small office, I have CEDs and LDs and players there that I'm working on, and folks always wonder if I'll fix their DVD player. I have to tell them it isn't worth fixing, the cost would be more than buying another. At least with streaming video, there's no e-waste.

But I'll tell you that if you are the kind of person who isn't afraid to open your LD player and attempt a fix when there's a problem, then you will have absolutely no trouble doing the same with a CED player. So for certain types, they can be very practical.

A throwaway out of sight media....
Sounds sadly familiar.
Makes me wonder............
When and if streaming becomes the norm with the masses,will any kind of fomat even be a viable alternative in that future?
Oh, and cow pies make great frisbees also,but they break up after a few good tosses.....LOL !!!!

In a way things have come full circle since the earliest days of broadcast TV. For old folks like me, we remember when there was no home video format and only over-the-air TV, and you were dependent upon the schedules of the TV stations for what you watch. Remember the old days of TV guide when you'd get a copy and right away look to see what the horror or sci-fi movie of Friday or Saturday night was going to be?

Then came the 70s and the home video revolution was born, and you could rent a tape that looked much better than any over-the-air broadcast. And then came all the variety and improvements in home TV viewing during the next 30-35 years. I remember in 1978 telling my Dad, who was also a TV repairman, that it would be easy to have widescreen TVs with current technology by using an anamorphic system. That came from working as a projectionist duiring college days and having to change out anamorphic lenses for films.

Now we go back to the TV broadcasters, air, cable, satellite, internet, for our entertainment without having to deal with home video equipment, with the difference being that we can often pick what to watch when we are able to watch it. 10 years ago my prediction was that we would get movies on a flash drive type of device, and I guess I was wrong.

There was an interesting bet end of the 80's when some countries/manufacturers bet that 4/3 HD (France's Thomson was working on this) was the next natural step while other decided that going widescreen 16/9 would be the next evolution.

I think we can say today that 16/9 took place first (while Japanese analog MUSE 16/9 HDTV got rejected as a worldwide standard to enforce digital HD and give US/Europe a few more years to catch up) and HD came later.

Now we have both

I've seen a demo of Super Hi-Vision at NHK's lab in Tokyo a few years ago (4320p and audio up to 22.2). It's basically IMAX at home, with the impression of looking at real life, not recorded material.

NHK Super Hi-Vision English Pamphlet

Julien

I bought my first CED player in 1982, an I was so fascinated the way it worked, when I understood how it worked. About a year ago I got back into collecting again, and I love them! I was once again fascinated that after almost 30 years, I could buy a few movies, and a player and instantly begin watching a movie again. Yes, we do deal with picture skips, but part of the fun is finding the discs that don't skip! I decided to watch all my SciFi and Horror CEDs this month in honor of Halloween. The first night I watched John Carpenter's The Fog, & Silver Bullet. I watched all of Silver Bullet, and started on The Fog, before I remembered I was watching the old format!!! I have close to 500 CEDs and many many of them play perfectly clean. I have 6 players (so far) and a huge smile on my face. I suppose there are quirks in these now passed formats that the collectors have to endure, but, to me, it is worth it! I'm sorry some of you here don't care for them, but there are many people who do. I'm glad I found this place, and I hope a lot more CED'ers do too!!!

nah man, look how records have come back, within a few years of i pods being the norm, suddenly people felt the need to get something tangible again and now turn tables are being made again and all the old 70's albums are being repressed. there will always be people who will want to hold their movies and music in their hands