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Well it arrived and it's dead.
https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=4895		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  glen_m [ 23 Jan 2015, 20:45 ]
Post subject:  Well it arrived and it's dead.
So the Hitachi VIP210P arrived tonight. Imagine my excitement when the postman weighs in with this big original CED box but that was short lived cause I plugged it in and nothing happens. Offered a disc caddy and still nothing. 

Took the lid off for a quick look and it's very clean inside. No signs of corrosion or damage to the board or its components. From what I can tell there is a small switch that should operate when the caddy is inserted which in turn should drive a motor that lifts the loading tray but as I say nothing happening. 

Before I start taking it to bits looking for a solution does anyone have experience with this machine that could give me a few ideas of where to look first. 
Author:  glen_m [ 23 Jan 2015, 22:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Well it arrived and it's dead.
OK got it sorted or should I say sort of fixed it. Someone had obviously had it in bits before as the tray mech was out of sync. Sorted that then noticed the belt that drives it was slipping. replaced that with a tighter one and also replaced the belt that controls the cartridge position. It's now loads and works as you would expect but the picture and sound is jumping all over the place. I suspect the needle is worn out see below pic.

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Author:  happycube [ 23 Jan 2015, 23:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Well it arrived and it's dead.
Hopefully someone who knows more than me can chime in, but I'm glad you've made progress!
Author:  rein-o [ 24 Jan 2015, 01:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Well it arrived and it's dead.
from what I think I've read you can't tell with your eye if the stylus is worn out or not.
it could be worn, it could be the tracking is off, it could also be the disc is bad.
once you figure out one of the above then it will be easier ;)

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Author:  glen_m [ 24 Jan 2015, 02:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Well it arrived and it's dead.
I never thought of tracking. I just assumed using a physical contact it would sort that itself.

I took the disc out of the caddy for a look and it was very dirty. I could of swore there was chocolate (or at least I hope it was) stuck to side B. I gave it a good rinse under water and it has helped.

The picture is more steady but there is a lot of noise in the image and static coming from the audio.
Author:  happycube [ 24 Jan 2015, 02:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Well it arrived and it's dead.
You're never supposed to rinse a CED - it removes the protective layer. Sounds like that might've degraded anyway, though.

The best thing to do, if it hasn't had something smeared on it, is to play it a few times.
Author:  rein-o [ 24 Jan 2015, 05:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Well it arrived and it's dead.
check out CED magic, they have a forum and great site for CED's
if you play a damaged disc it will damage the stylus.
I think there was a tracking of some sort?? can't remember all of it now.

they will have all service info on that site.
good luck.

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Author:  glen_m [ 24 Jan 2015, 10:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Well it arrived and it's dead.
Thanks. Have been looking at that site too. I have read conflicting reports online about washing the disc with some saying you can and others saying not to. Given how bad the playback was on this one I thought it worth the chance.
Author:  dumbchemist [ 24 Jan 2015, 11:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Well it arrived and it's dead.
Your best shot is to send the stylus to CEDatum (http://www.cedatum.com) and have them evaluate it. They will examine it under a microscope and let you know its grade (A+ down to D). I would rely on their recommendations if cleaning or rebuilding is required. In the past, I have sent them 2 Hitachi styluses and they did a good job on both.

All CED discs have a silicone coating applied when manufactured to reduce the friction between the disc and the stylus. Rinsing the disc with anything will remove the coating effectively making the disc unplayable. (Personally, I would not play a washed disc for fear of destroying the player's stylus).
Author:  glen_m [ 24 Jan 2015, 12:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Well it arrived and it's dead.
I have emailed CEDatum for advice. Given that I'm in the UK it could be quiet expensive to get the stylus safely there and back. Do you know how much they charge to rebuild a stylus?
Author:  dumbchemist [ 24 Jan 2015, 18:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Well it arrived and it's dead.
I have heard that it is $35 for a rebuild. (I maybe wrong on this). A cleaning is much lower at ~$8.00 plus postage. I am thinking that it would easier for you to send your stylus to someone here in the states and have them send you a good stylus. They could then send your exchanged stylus to CEDatum for work.

Are you sure that your player is a VIP210P? CEDmagic.com shows the VIP201P model and not the VIP210P. I believe that the HItachi style models all use the same stylus (someone correct if I am wrong).
Author:  glen_m [ 24 Jan 2015, 19:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Well it arrived and it's dead.
Yes the model is vip201p. I've had an email exchange with CEDatum and it does sound like it needs rebuilt. I'm waiting on them coming back again to be sure.

From what I've found out all hitachi models do in fact share the same stylus design. I wouldn't mind doing the swap with someone in the states but would want to be sure any stylus I would be getting would be in good condition.
Author:  ace2184 [ 25 Jan 2015, 22:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Well it arrived and it's dead.
Just offhand, have you tried playing other discs? I have a few that are awful and others that play beautifully.
Author:  glen_m [ 26 Jan 2015, 14:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Well it arrived and it's dead.
Over the last 2 nights I've watched 2001 a space odyssey. I made the point of everytime it skipped or lost signal to reverse repeat that section of disc so it took nearly 2 hours to watch each side. After finishing it last night I flipped over and replayed parts of side 1 that I remembered were bad and the skipping was 90% gone. The picture though is not great as in full of snow and loads of coloured horizontal lines blur and break up the image but at least it doesn't skip.

The other discs are much the same. Given the above comments on my washing attempt that film has been set on the shelf not to be used again unless of course there is an option to spray on a new silicone lubricant? The other two jump, fart and skip all over the place but I suspect a run through may fix them.

I've attached a couple of pictures to try and show the defects in the image. For whatever reason these make it look at a lot better than it actually is.

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The various horizontal lines through the logo are fairly representative of how the image looks all the time.

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The long horizontal bar in the second image is generally accompanied with a loud pop from the speakers.
Author:  happycube [ 26 Jan 2015, 18:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Well it arrived and it's dead.
At least most of the skipping's gone...

What you posted makes me think of TED, but CED is usually better than that. Hopefully a fixed stylus and some better disks will help!
Author:  rein-o [ 26 Jan 2015, 18:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Well it arrived and it's dead.
welcome to the world of CED.
as you posted you will sometimes need to play over that bad spot many times to try and clean out the grove, picture looks pretty good,
or as good at you will get with discs and stylus.

you may change out the stylus to get the same image from the disc and it may not get any better.


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Author:  happycube [ 26 Jan 2015, 19:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Well it arrived and it's dead.
Considering that's about equal to level 4 LD rot... yipes. I can see why you sold your disks!

And the Hitachi players have direct drive motors, which from what I see on youtube can really help time base correction etc.

http://www.cedmagic.com/home/cedfaq.html#threeten has a tip for putting the Hitachi player in page mode that could help.
Author:  rein-o [ 26 Jan 2015, 19:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Well it arrived and it's dead.
happycube wrote:
Considering that's about equal to level 4 LD rot... yipes. I can see why you sold your disks!

And the Hitachi players have direct drive motors, which from what I see on youtube can really help time base correction etc.

http://www.cedmagic.com/home/cedfaq.html#threeten has a tip for putting the Hitachi player in page mode that could help.

level 4 rot :lol:
I wish that's what 4 would look like, more like 1-2 if those pictures showing that video noise correctly.

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Author:  glen_m [ 26 Jan 2015, 19:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Well it arrived and it's dead.
I tried that page mode a few times but can't get it to work. The stylus is being posted to CEDATUM tomorrow for them to inspect and depending on how bad it is I might get it retipped.

They also have a a good one in stock so might get that too. Would be worth having the spare.
Author:  happycube [ 26 Jan 2015, 19:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Well it arrived and it's dead.
He said it was worse in motion, and had audio pops, so I factored that in. So OK, 2-3. ;)

(I could probably use a couple of reference level 4 disks... I got Eraser not that long ago, but it wasn't especially bad.)

The horizontal lines look like time base errors. I think CED is known for having a sloppy time base, so a good DVD recorder could help there. And having an extra stylus is probably a good idea.
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