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 Post subject: W-VHS
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2011, 21:57 
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Well, since we have a thread for S-VHS, I figured I might as well bring up W-VHS. Does anyone have one of these decks?

I once saw one on Ebay a year or so ago. Was going to bid, but I wasn't near a computer when it was winding down. It went for a mere $200. Always kicked myself for not jumping on that one.

I always wondered what the quality of the recordings are like. Was the resolution truly 1035i or not quite so like MUSE/Hi-Vision LD?

And since it records through component video, I take it there's no CSS/Macrovision protection involved?
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 Post subject: Re: W-VHS
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2011, 22:10 
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Hah, here's another ebay lot that ended not too long ago for a W-VHS deck. This one went for just under $600:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0667177750
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 Post subject: Re: W-VHS
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2011, 22:19 
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that's cool. is it better than D-VHS?
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 Post subject: Re: W-VHS
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2011, 22:27 
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I can't say for sure, but I would lean towards no, since it is older technology than D-VHS.

Well, it was probably better than D-VHS when D-VHS first came out as I understand D-VHS didn't support Hi-Definition from the get-go, and W-VHS was always Hi-Def.
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 Post subject: Re: W-VHS
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2011, 23:03 
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A friend of mine used to have several W-VHS decks, and he mainly used them to record MUSE LD's to W-VHS tapes.
The machines looked very spectacular, professional stuff.
Finding W-VHS tapes was not easy though, and not cheap either.
He doesn't have any W-VHS anymore these days though.
And several machines he got from ebay were not exactly in full working order,
but were advertised as being so. So stay alert.
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 Post subject: Re: W-VHS
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2011, 00:05 
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W-VHS in High Definition mode has a luminance bandwidth of about 12 MHz. For reference, full bandwidth HD is supposed to be 30 MHz, & "acceptable" is about 20 MHz (what MUSE attains in still-image areas). So, while it does record the 1125-line signal, quality of reproduction is limited. The 525-line component recording mode, however, is reputed to be stellar. (There was also a professional analog cassette format, based on the 3/4" U-Matic, known as Uni-Hi, which had somewhat better performance.)

Note that you can use D-VHS blanks to record on.
The machines are easily found on Yahoo Japan if you have even a little patience.
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 Post subject: Re: W-VHS
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2011, 05:20 
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I have one, I'm mostly using D9 tapes with it. I previously used it for recording high def component video sources. Quality is pretty good higher than dvd quality but with analog noise, but lower than digital HD.
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 Post subject: Re: W-VHS
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2012, 19:53 
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Back in 2000 I have seen a demonstration at the Systems in Munich done by JVC. They played some sports footage from a VHS-W deck.
I have to say the picture looked way better than usual video, however when you looked at it more closely you saw the overshot and jitter. It's certainly no professional format.

It had 3 pairs of heads, one for audio and 2 for video. It worked with interlaced 1125 line video (1032 active) and split each of the fields into 2 parts recorded in parallel. Sound is usually analogue FM modulated or alternatively digital.

I have also loked up UNIHI. It uses a half inch tape, and therefore uses different cassettes to U-Matic. It has a 20 MHz luma bandwidth.

I'm a lucky owner of Jürgen Burghardt's "Handbuch der professionellen Videorekorder".
  
 
 Post subject: Re: W-VHS
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2012, 22:49 
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casandro wrote:
Back in 2000 I have seen a demonstration at the Systems in Munich done by JVC. They played some sports footage from a VHS-W deck.
I have to say the picture looked way better than usual video, however when you looked at it more closely you saw the overshot and jitter. It's certainly no professional format.

It had 3 pairs of heads, one for audio and 2 for video. It worked with interlaced 1125 line video (1032 active) and split each of the fields into 2 parts recorded in parallel. Sound is usually analogue FM modulated or alternatively digital.

I have also loked up UNIHI. It uses a half inch tape, and therefore uses different cassettes to U-Matic. It has a 20 MHz luma bandwidth.

I'm a lucky owner of Jürgen Burghardt's "Handbuch der professionellen Videorekorder".


U-Matic was the starting point for the design of UniHi though, just as C-Format was the starting point for the analog open reel Hi-Vision tape format. The Japanese just loved the combination of digital and analog techniques, specifically the Time Compression Integration method for recording high definition signals back before transform coding other digital compression methods and storage were available.

Like lots of equipment that gets ruined when officially imported into the USA, the W-VHS format was stripped of features for its US version, mainly PCM recording and playback. It's just sad that JVC created a full linear PCM digital audio recording system for consumer VHS and it was never allowed to go on sale in the USA due to the backlash the DAT format had received from the studios and government. High Definition could have been in American consumers homes a lot sooner too with W-VHS and MUSE LD, but the Japanese government wouldn't allow it since they were afraid it would knock their Narrow MUSE ADTV system out of the running as the official high definition broadcast format. They also hoped ClearVision or MUSE-6 might be adopted for NTSC compatible Extended Definition broadcasts too.
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 Post subject: Re: W-VHS
PostPosted: 27 Jun 2012, 21:03 
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Ohh those combined versions were actually quite popular. Apparently Grundig had a simmilar HD capable VCR in development.
There was also D2-Mac and HD-Mac, the first being fairly popular among northern countries. Those were hybrid systems, too.
In Europe the Japaneese couldn't get hold because of their refusal to offer a 1250 line system.

BTW Most D2-Mac receivers were HD-Mac compatible. As far as I know it only added another layer of interlacing. Full receivers deinterlaced the signal based on a helper signal also transmitted. I believe the chep receivers simply didn't deinterlace it at all.
Here's some footage from the HD-Mac tests, BTW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYYHlhjI5Q8
  
 
 Post subject: Re: W-VHS
PostPosted: 27 Jun 2012, 22:41 
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casandro wrote:
Ohh those combined versions were actually quite popular. Apparently Grundig had a simmilar HD capable VCR in development.
There was also D2-Mac and HD-Mac, the first being fairly popular among northern countries. Those were hybrid systems, too.
In Europe the Japaneese couldn't get hold because of their refusal to offer a 1250 line system.

BTW Most D2-Mac receivers were HD-Mac compatible. As far as I know it only added another layer of interlacing. Full receivers deinterlaced the signal based on a helper signal also transmitted. I believe the chep receivers simply didn't deinterlace it at all.
Here's some footage from the HD-Mac tests, BTW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYYHlhjI5Q8


Thanks for that link, I've never seen that footage before. I've never seen it but I always check YouTube for the RCA and NBC broadcast test of the NTSC compatible ACTV 1 system that was done in New York for 4 minutes, I believe. I once had a brochure from RCA about ACTV but somehow, I lost it. It described the "full HD" ACTV 2 system too and the upgrade path from ACTV 1 to ACTV 2. With the "full HD" ACTV 2 system, color resolution was only 240 lines horizontally, thus the quotes around "full HD".

Dot interlacing and TCI encoding - later with motion vector helper signals - were the best that could be done back before gobs of computing power became cheaply available. Plus everyone was fixed on the idea that any HD system HAD to be compatible with NTSC, PAL or one of the MAC formats, which loaded the systems with limitations they wouldn't otherwise have. MUSE-E, used for the Japanese broadcasts and Hi-Vision LD, was the "purest" of the hybrid digital/analog systems since it didn't have any concessions to compatability with composite broadcast or satellite systems. The HD-MAC system kind of fell apart in those Barcelona tests, showing that the system had a lot of problems and artifacts in both HD and standard MAC receivers - its picture on standard MAC sets wasn't very good. I've always wanted to see a picture of the HD MAC LaserDisc player that Philips made - it's never been shown in any of the papers about HD MAC or in the BBC's HD MAC technical documents.

It's amazing, the amount of R&D that went into the hybrid HD systems - and how many there were. Plus things like the MAC Directive and 16:9 Action Plan - and the PAL+Plus system - a version was engineered for NTSC, but I don't think any actual equipment was built. There's the Com3 System, Composite Compatible Component, formerly known as Weston Clean PAL. It wasn't for broadcasting, but studio work. Snell&Wilcox sold equipment for Com3 but I've never heard how well it was accepted in studios and such; the death of composite systems and broadcasts killed it I think.

If you know of, or come across, any other early HD test footage on YouTube or elsewhere, please let me know.
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 Post subject: Re: W-VHS
PostPosted: 29 Jun 2012, 16:58 
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Well there actually is some early production work available. It's a television series called "Xena: Warrior Princess". According to Tim Stoffel that has been shot in 720p on German equipment from BTS.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: W-VHS
PostPosted: 29 Jun 2012, 18:42 
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casandro wrote:
Well there actually is some early production work available. It's a television series called "Xena: Warrior Princess". According to Tim Stoffel that has been shot in 720p on German equipment from BTS.


Wow! I've never heard before that Xena was shot in 720P. The show always had a very good, film-like look to it, so I just assumed it was shot on film. Great info!
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 Post subject: Re: W-VHS
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2013, 06:47 
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Hey everybody! I recently got a JVC SR W5U in a trade, but it's plagued with problems.
When I load the tape into the deck, and press play, I get no video, but I do get normal audio ocassionally. Now, if I actually held up with one hand the RF Board Assy, I was able to get a picture and hi-fi audio, but I had to position it a proper way. This also seems to affect the decks ability to output a signal from the component output. Sometimes, if I moved the deck slightly, I would get no signal from the component. However, moving it again would give me a picture again. When I tried to record on WVHS, I could only hear audio in the playback. First off, in regards to SVHS playback, once I get the RF board into place, I am able to playback and record SVHS properly. So, all is well with that. The problem for me is the WVHS side of the machine with the component ouput and input. The input/output is very finicky. I am able to get it to recognize the component ouput, but the way I am able to do it is if I hold the green part of the RGB input cable myself. Also, I was able to record WVHS, however, the picture was full of defects and had a bit of static in it. I've heard from some people that it's possible the component out/input could be loose, so that is most likely a soldering issue. Also, when I initially plug the deck in, the machine tries to load without anything in it, and the way to reset it is to manually push a cassette in and press play then eject. Otherwise, the machine doesn't respond when I press any buttons.
So, just to recap the problems with this machine
1. The RF board is the main culprit, perhaps a bad connection
2. SVHS playback/record is fine once the RF board is in place
3. The machine is able to accept an RGB input, however, I think the soldering may be loose
4. The machine is able to record when it recognizes the component input, however, the recording is kind of staticy and some parts of the picture have less color compared to the rest
5. The only way to be able to playback the WVHS signal is to have the board in some sort of place
*Note* If the board is not in the right place, the machine will not have a proper counter in playback and ffw and rew will produce the counter blinking. The only way to get a proper counter is to have the board in a particular place.

the previous owner the trader had got the item from had glued the removable powercord into the socket. The socket is much like the one on the HR S69000U. Last but not least, I can now confirm that the component input ports are loose and can feel them wiggle, and for some reason, I am unable to see the image from the component input on tv, despite the fact that I can see the VU meters moving.

Can anyone help me with this? I really wanna get this machine working.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: W-VHS
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2013, 20:43 
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disclord wrote:
casandro wrote:
Ohh those combined versions were actually quite popular. Apparently Grundig had a simmilar HD capable VCR in development.
There was also D2-Mac and HD-Mac, the first being fairly popular among northern countries. Those were hybrid systems, too.
In Europe the Japaneese couldn't get hold because of their refusal to offer a 1250 line system.

BTW Most D2-Mac receivers were HD-Mac compatible. As far as I know it only added another layer of interlacing. Full receivers deinterlaced the signal based on a helper signal also transmitted. I believe the chep receivers simply didn't deinterlace it at all.
Here's some footage from the HD-Mac tests, BTW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYYHlhjI5Q8


Thanks for that link, I've never seen that footage before. I've never seen it but I always check YouTube for the RCA and NBC broadcast test of the NTSC compatible ACTV 1 system that was done in New York for 4 minutes, I believe. I once had a brochure from RCA about ACTV but somehow, I lost it. It described the "full HD" ACTV 2 system too and the upgrade path from ACTV 1 to ACTV 2. With the "full HD" ACTV 2 system, color resolution was only 240 lines horizontally, thus the quotes around "full HD".

Dot interlacing and TCI encoding - later with motion vector helper signals - were the best that could be done back before gobs of computing power became cheaply available. Plus everyone was fixed on the idea that any HD system HAD to be compatible with NTSC, PAL or one of the MAC formats, which loaded the systems with limitations they wouldn't otherwise have. MUSE-E, used for the Japanese broadcasts and Hi-Vision LD, was the "purest" of the hybrid digital/analog systems since it didn't have any concessions to compatability with composite broadcast or satellite systems. The HD-MAC system kind of fell apart in those Barcelona tests, showing that the system had a lot of problems and artifacts in both HD and standard MAC receivers - its picture on standard MAC sets wasn't very good. I've always wanted to see a picture of the HD MAC LaserDisc player that Philips made - it's never been shown in any of the papers about HD MAC or in the BBC's HD MAC technical documents.

It's amazing, the amount of R&D that went into the hybrid HD systems - and how many there were. Plus things like the MAC Directive and 16:9 Action Plan - and the PAL+Plus system - a version was engineered for NTSC, but I don't think any actual equipment was built. There's the Com3 System, Composite Compatible Component, formerly known as Weston Clean PAL. It wasn't for broadcasting, but studio work. Snell&Wilcox sold equipment for Com3 but I've never heard how well it was accepted in studios and such; the death of composite systems and broadcasts killed it I think.

If you know of, or come across, any other early HD test footage on YouTube or elsewhere, please let me know.
Imagehttp://vintageelectronics.betamaxcollectors.com/forums/showthread.php?711-my-vcr-scans&p=2929#post2929
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Quote:
  
 
 Post subject: Re: W-VHS
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2023, 05:30 
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Just FYI, W-VHS decks are part of the Hardware Database now:

https://www.lddb.com/device/wvhs

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