LaserDisc Database :: View topic - Going through my HDs and now really wonder why blue ray won

I didnt know the island was released in the us or canada. I have the uk hd dvd which plays fine. Now the us bd has lossless audio i dont watch the hd anymore.

I keep that thing updated constantly. I am sure it is the quality of some of the discs. I am just getting messed under, lol

Hi guys, new to the forum :angel:

I thought I'd chime in. I'm a HUGE HD-DVD Collector and probably have close to 300 (I'm trying for a complete collection all countries- i know one day

) and I have never had a problem in any player. That's including the 360 Drive (which is fantastic) and a LG HD-DVDRom/Bluray Combo in a HTPC.

Bluray's load times could be attached to the fact that the menu's and profiles use Java (my guess anyway). I will admit I have loads of Bluray's as well, but people who refuse to give any HD-DVD low nowadays is pretty absurd. Titles I have on both formats (Especially Universal) Troy being a great example, is identical, even the menu's so a $2.00 Troy seems like a bargain to me. There's also plenty of rare titles (by rare I mean $10-$20 dollars) that are not available on Bluray, or is a cheaper alternative than a Region Locked import Bluray.

Just my 2 cents

Just rehooked up my xbox hd system. Beautiful picture. no waiting.

Plus Dolby was mandatory on HD-DVD was it called Dolby Plus, and I’m sick and tired of dtsHD-MA stealing the limelight particularly Dolby produced films ending up as dtsHD-MA and I’m Dolby listener I don’t care if both sound formats are lossless lossy or turned upside down and inside out.

I didn’t buy bluray to buy my favourite films to end as dtsHD-MA while they’re so god damn big headed on facebook as if it was there format that created the film mix. Take STAR WARS well I don’t think we care about that one anymore. Its had very little play time or viewing, just a waste of money.

I’m glad Dolby is starting to make slow comeback with Dolby TrueHD as some cinema produced releases in Dolby surround 7.1 have ending up as sigh dtsHD-MA 7.1 and that really pissed me off, as consumer.

I think both should be used on the disc they did it with “Close Encounters of the third kind” plus three versions of the film so what are the excuses?

Warner and Paramount Picture were one of the last studios a few years ago to produced Dolby TrueHD but were slowly thinning out then Paramount was the only one left until dtsHD-MA got under their skin and I shied away.

I think the biggest last release was STAR TREK and I doubt the new STAR TREK will be in Dolby TrueHD no doubt it will be mixed in Dolby Surround 7.1.

dtsHD-MA is okay only if both Dolby TrueHD and dtsHD-MA can exist on the same disc. Take a look at 35mm it holds Dolby SR-D, dts and SDDS6/8 what good is bluray if it can’t hold both and cater for the consumer who has spent money on it!

laserbite34 wrote:

I just don't understand your anti-dts position. Dolby doesn't produce any films. They are just the sound delivery format. Dolby's position has always been that they get to decide what we hear. Their psycho-acoustic channel coupling and dialog normalization was unforgivable. Your rants seem to be based more on marketing hype than actual technical performance or listening preferences. Again, Dolby didn't produce any of this.

It's the studio's choice as to what format they are going to use. Disney, Warner (now), Sony, Fox, Lionsgate and Universal all do DTSHD-MA for the majority of their titles. Paramount seems to go back and forth between DTSHD-MA and Dolby TrueHD. I suspect you'll never see a title that offeres both lossless formats.

I have always preferred DTS over Dolby. I just like the way it sounds better. But any more, if it is truly lossless, what difference does the delivery make? I think not buying a title because it has one sound format over the other is silly. I mean, if you like the film and want to have it in your personal library, what difference does the audio format make? I mean, would I rather have "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" in DTSHD-MA over Dolby TrueHD? Sure! But that's not going to stop me from buying the title.

I suppose you are not going to buy the new HD remasterings of "Star Trek: The Next Generation" simply because they have 7.1 DTSHD-MA audio mixes. :wtf:

laserbite34 wrote:

The fact that we have nothing equivalent to the VCR that can permanently record and edit HD broadcasts is awful. BD recorders are widely available in Japan, yet they won't introduce them here - and they've all but killed off the DVD recorder as a stand-alone product. I have no interest in TIVO because it's not permanent and I don't trust hard drives - I've had too many fail on me.

Author:	mikeystoyz [ 23 Feb 2012, 02:30 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going through my HDs and now really wonder why blue ray
I keep that thing updated constantly. I am sure it is the quality of some of the discs. I am just getting messed under, lol

Author:	remington [ 29 Feb 2012, 15:15 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going through my HDs and now really wonder why blue ray
substance wrote: I didnt know the island was released in the us or canada. I have the uk hd dvd which plays fine. Now the us bd has lossless audio i dont watch the hd anymore. Your right, I meant to say I bought the UK version twice and Die Insel (the German version) once. None of those played right on different players. I have a UK blu ray version which plays perfect. Somehow I mixed up a Canadian HD DVD (or blu ray) which I could have swore I bought that didn't play right into this. I remember going through it all and feeling like I bought so many versions. Good catch.

Author:	ohreally [ 03 Mar 2012, 01:55 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going through my HDs and now really wonder why blue ray
mikeystoyz wrote: I keep that thing updated constantly. I am sure it is the quality of some of the discs. I am just getting messed under, lol I have a PS3 that is now over 4yrs old and it has NEVER taken more than about 1.5min to load a BD. Most don't take any time to load at all, perhaps 10-15 seconds. My friends is the same so there is definitely something wrong with your PS3. The only other thing I can think of is that I don't game on mine and I don't connect to the internet unless an update is required which is RARE (the last update required was to play "Battle Los Angeles" which was a while ago now). I use the PS3 strictly as a component BD player so maybe putting other stuff on it and crap from the internet may be your issue. Hope this helps!

Author:	tomtastic [ 08 Mar 2012, 19:09 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going through my HDs and now really wonder why blue ray
I had some HD DVDs and I thought they would win because they sold cheaper players but that didn't matter. I only had about a dozen so sold them off. I still have Star Trek season 1 combo, it's R2, so the DVD is useless here in U.S. but it was cheap at the time and I planned on ripping it to HDD anyway. I love Blu-rays but the only ones I put in PS3 are 3D titles as I don't have a solution to put those on HDD for playback in 3D. I have all my Blu-rays ripped to HDD for playback in Plex media center. There is no load time, no loss in quality and retains the 5.1 or 7.1 soundtracks. I have noticed some load times in the PS3, which is annoying. I can't wait until a solution for 3D content is available, then I'll never need to throw another Blu-ray in again.

Author:	tomtastic [ 10 Mar 2012, 03:06 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going through my HDs and now really wonder why blue ray
Well, I had a Blu-ray just give a black screen for 5 minutes or more. Gave up and ejected it and started it again. Worked the second time. I think on average it takes at least 7-to 10 minutes to get to the menu screen by the time you get through all the BS. I found a way to do 3D now converting to HDD so I'm done with playing back Blu-rays in the PS3. Long load times, warning screens you can't skip, previews. So much easier having all of your collection at your fingertips and play it when you want it. I've never had more problems with playback than Blu-ray is giving. I think it gives unmatched results with picture and audio but it's just a pain with playback.

LaserDisc Database https://forum.lddb.com/

Going through my HDs and now really wonder why blue ray won https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=94	Page 3 of 3

Author:	Guest [ 28 May 2012, 02:17 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going through my HDs and now really wonder why blue ray
HD-DVD lost, oh well...HD-DVD can be dead to everyone but it's still alive with me.

Author:	Guest [ 06 Jul 2012, 19:23 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going through my HDs and now really wonder why blue ray
Just bought 2 brand new in box LG BH100 bluray/hd-dvd combo player.got them cheap and the look really nice and expensive and it works perfect! pre-out,hdmi etc etc

Author:	laserbite34 [ 26 Jul 2012, 02:58 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going through my HDs and now really wonder why blue ray
cefiro355 wrote: Hi guys, new to the forum I thought I'd chime in. I'm a HUGE HD-DVD Collector and probably have close to 300 (I'm trying for a complete collection all countries- i know one day ) and I have never had a problem in any player. That's including the 360 Drive (which is fantastic) and a LG HD-DVDRom/Bluray Combo in a HTPC. Bluray's load times could be attached to the fact that the menu's and profiles use Java (my guess anyway). I will admit I have loads of Bluray's as well, but people who refuse to give any HD-DVD low nowadays is pretty absurd. Titles I have on both formats (Especially Universal) Troy being a great example, is identical, even the menu's so a $2.00 Troy seems like a bargain to me. There's also plenty of rare titles (by rare I mean $10-$20 dollars) that are not available on Bluray, or is a cheaper alternative than a Region Locked import Bluray. Just my 2 cents I think its the BDLive ones that take so damn long! Plus if you stopped the film it takes another 1min or so worse with that crappy Terminator 2 it takes 3mins or so! I could make cup of tea and serve up biscuits in that time. Just my 2pence. I've had the Toshiba playing a bit for the past 8 or so hours once with HD-DVD last night and now with DVD-RW vintage mono TV broadcast STAR TREK seems to play fine no snags with jumping. It jumps ahead a few seconds on the bluray I think its the disc maybe minor scratch mark but seems to get past that on DVD player and the HD-DVD player. I'd like to get another HD-DVD player maybe the Toshiba XA2 with 6channel RCA outputs.

Author:	mikeystoyz [ 26 Jul 2012, 06:57 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going through my HDs and now really wonder why blue ray
Just rehooked up my xbox hd system. Beautiful picture. no waiting.

Author:	laserbite34 [ 26 Jul 2012, 13:19 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going through my HDs and now really wonder why blue ray
mikeystoyz wrote: Just rehooked up my xbox hd system. Beautiful picture. no waiting. Is it to do with processor speed of the chip or hardware that runs the xbox over HD-DVD player decks, is that why it loads up faster?

Author:	blam1 [ 02 Aug 2012, 18:35 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going through my HDs and now really wonder why blue ray
laserbite34 wrote: Plus Dolby was mandatory on HD-DVD was it called Dolby Plus, and I’m sick and tired of dtsHD-MA stealing the limelight particularly Dolby produced films ending up as dtsHD-MA and I’m Dolby listener I don’t care if both sound formats are lossless lossy or turned upside down and inside out. I didn’t buy bluray to buy my favourite films to end as dtsHD-MA while they’re so god damn big headed on facebook as if it was there format that created the film mix. Take STAR WARS well I don’t think we care about that one anymore. Its had very little play time or viewing, just a waste of money. I’m glad Dolby is starting to make slow comeback with Dolby TrueHD as some cinema produced releases in Dolby surround 7.1 have ending up as sigh dtsHD-MA 7.1 and that really pissed me off, as consumer. I think both should be used on the disc they did it with “Close Encounters of the third kind” plus three versions of the film so what are the excuses? Warner and Paramount Picture were one of the last studios a few years ago to produced Dolby TrueHD but were slowly thinning out then Paramount was the only one left until dtsHD-MA got under their skin and I shied away. I think the biggest last release was STAR TREK and I doubt the new STAR TREK will be in Dolby TrueHD no doubt it will be mixed in Dolby Surround 7.1. dtsHD-MA is okay only if both Dolby TrueHD and dtsHD-MA can exist on the same disc. Take a look at 35mm it holds Dolby SR-D, dts and SDDS6/8 what good is bluray if it can’t hold both and cater for the consumer who has spent money on it! I just don't understand your anti-dts position. Dolby doesn't produce any films. They are just the sound delivery format. Dolby's position has always been that they get to decide what we hear. Their psycho-acoustic channel coupling and dialog normalization was unforgivable. Your rants seem to be based more on marketing hype than actual technical performance or listening preferences. Again, Dolby didn't produce any of this. It's the studio's choice as to what format they are going to use. Disney, Warner (now), Sony, Fox, Lionsgate and Universal all do DTSHD-MA for the majority of their titles. Paramount seems to go back and forth between DTSHD-MA and Dolby TrueHD. I suspect you'll never see a title that offeres both lossless formats. I have always preferred DTS over Dolby. I just like the way it sounds better. But any more, if it is truly lossless, what difference does the delivery make? I think not buying a title because it has one sound format over the other is silly. I mean, if you like the film and want to have it in your personal library, what difference does the audio format make? I mean, would I rather have "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" in DTSHD-MA over Dolby TrueHD? Sure! But that's not going to stop me from buying the title. I suppose you are not going to buy the new HD remasterings of "Star Trek: The Next Generation" simply because they have 7.1 DTSHD-MA audio mixes.

Author:	philburque46 [ 02 Aug 2012, 18:40 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going through my HDs and now really wonder why blue ray
blam1 wrote: laserbite34 wrote: Plus Dolby was mandatory on HD-DVD was it called Dolby Plus, and I’m sick and tired of dtsHD-MA stealing the limelight particularly Dolby produced films ending up as dtsHD-MA and I’m Dolby listener I don’t care if both sound formats are lossless lossy or turned upside down and inside out. I didn’t buy bluray to buy my favourite films to end as dtsHD-MA while they’re so god damn big headed on facebook as if it was there format that created the film mix. Take STAR WARS well I don’t think we care about that one anymore. Its had very little play time or viewing, just a waste of money. I’m glad Dolby is starting to make slow comeback with Dolby TrueHD as some cinema produced releases in Dolby surround 7.1 have ending up as sigh dtsHD-MA 7.1 and that really pissed me off, as consumer. I think both should be used on the disc they did it with “Close Encounters of the third kind” plus three versions of the film so what are the excuses? Warner and Paramount Picture were one of the last studios a few years ago to produced Dolby TrueHD but were slowly thinning out then Paramount was the only one left until dtsHD-MA got under their skin and I shied away. I think the biggest last release was STAR TREK and I doubt the new STAR TREK will be in Dolby TrueHD no doubt it will be mixed in Dolby Surround 7.1. dtsHD-MA is okay only if both Dolby TrueHD and dtsHD-MA can exist on the same disc. Take a look at 35mm it holds Dolby SR-D, dts and SDDS6/8 what good is bluray if it can’t hold both and cater for the consumer who has spent money on it! I just don't understand your anti-dts position. Dolby doesn't produce any films. They are just the sound delivery format. Dolby's position has always been that they get to decide what we hear. Their psycho-acoustic channel coupling and dialog normalization was unforgivable. Your rants seem to be based more on marketing hype than actual technical performance or listening preferences. Again, Dolby didn't produce any of this. It's the studio's choice as to what format they are going to use. Disney, Warner (now), Sony, Fox, Lionsgate and Universal all do DTSHD-MA for the majority of their titles. Paramount seems to go back and forth between DTSHD-MA and Dolby TrueHD. I suspect you'll never see a title that offeres both lossless formats. I have always preferred DTS over Dolby. I just like the way it sounds better. But any more, if it is truly lossless, what difference does the delivery make? I think not buying a title because it has one sound format over the other is silly. I mean, if you like the film and want to have it in your personal library, what difference does the audio format make? I mean, would I rather have "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" in DTSHD-MA over Dolby TrueHD? Sure! But that's not going to stop me from buying the title. I suppose you are not going to buy the new HD remasterings of "Star Trek: The Next Generation" simply because they have 7.1 DTSHD-MA audio mixes. The only title I know of that has both lossless tracks is Close Encounters of the Third Kind http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Close-Encounters-of-the-Third-Kind-Blu-ray/529/

Author:	disclord [ 02 Aug 2012, 21:41 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going through my HDs and now really wonder why blue ray
blam1 wrote: laserbite34 wrote: Plus Dolby was mandatory on HD-DVD was it called Dolby Plus, and I’m sick and tired of dtsHD-MA stealing the limelight particularly Dolby produced films ending up as dtsHD-MA and I’m Dolby listener I don’t care if both sound formats are lossless lossy or turned upside down and inside out. I didn’t buy bluray to buy my favourite films to end as dtsHD-MA while they’re so god damn big headed on facebook as if it was there format that created the film mix. Take STAR WARS well I don’t think we care about that one anymore. Its had very little play time or viewing, just a waste of money. I’m glad Dolby is starting to make slow comeback with Dolby TrueHD as some cinema produced releases in Dolby surround 7.1 have ending up as sigh dtsHD-MA 7.1 and that really pissed me off, as consumer. I think both should be used on the disc they did it with “Close Encounters of the third kind” plus three versions of the film so what are the excuses? Warner and Paramount Picture were one of the last studios a few years ago to produced Dolby TrueHD but were slowly thinning out then Paramount was the only one left until dtsHD-MA got under their skin and I shied away. I think the biggest last release was STAR TREK and I doubt the new STAR TREK will be in Dolby TrueHD no doubt it will be mixed in Dolby Surround 7.1. dtsHD-MA is okay only if both Dolby TrueHD and dtsHD-MA can exist on the same disc. Take a look at 35mm it holds Dolby SR-D, dts and SDDS6/8 what good is bluray if it can’t hold both and cater for the consumer who has spent money on it! I just don't understand your anti-dts position. Dolby doesn't produce any films. They are just the sound delivery format. Dolby's position has always been that they get to decide what we hear. Their psycho-acoustic channel coupling and dialog normalization was unforgivable. Your rants seem to be based more on marketing hype than actual technical performance or listening preferences. Again, Dolby didn't produce any of this. It's the studio's choice as to what format they are going to use. Disney, Warner (now), Sony, Fox, Lionsgate and Universal all do DTSHD-MA for the majority of their titles. Paramount seems to go back and forth between DTSHD-MA and Dolby TrueHD. I suspect you'll never see a title that offeres both lossless formats. I have always preferred DTS over Dolby. I just like the way it sounds better. But any more, if it is truly lossless, what difference does the delivery make? I think not buying a title because it has one sound format over the other is silly. I mean, if you like the film and want to have it in your personal library, what difference does the audio format make? I mean, would I rather have "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" in DTSHD-MA over Dolby TrueHD? Sure! But that's not going to stop me from buying the title. I suppose you are not going to buy the new HD remasterings of "Star Trek: The Next Generation" simply because they have 7.1 DTSHD-MA audio mixes. Dialog Normalization would have been OK if Dolby had made it switchable on/off, as it was in some of the first AC-3 decoders, like Yamaha's first outboard AC-3 decoder - Blaine, didn't your first Denon AC-3 receiver allow you to switch DN on and off? - and Dolby also needed to both explain its function to engineers doing the encoding better, so they really understood what it did and was for, and teach them how to use it correctly. For some reason, most think it applies compression or alters dynamics, when all it does is change the over all volume level by whatever amount the setting calls for to match the level you've set your volume control. At the time DD was being used on LD's and the first DVD's, there was no meter available capable of measuring the long-term loudness of a soundtrack, but with the growing complaints in the 90's that theatrical films were getting too loud due to producers demanding that the digital ALWAYS be at its highest level, Dolby and other companies produced meters capable of measuring precisely how loud dialog was over the course of the film - and produce a number that matches the dialog normalization figure for setting it correctly. If all that had been done, then Dialog Normalization would work right - you'd set your volume to the level you preferred, and from then on, whatever you played that was encoded in Dolby Digital with DN set correctly, would playback at that same level you set your volume control at - dialog would always be at the level you set, with full dynamics, etc, unless the AC-3 compression was activated. The DTS-HD - and regular DTS - formats now have dialog normalization and I notice it quite often on Blu-ray's and new DVD's - typically with the standard -4db setting (which is basically the default setting and means no volume changes are applied at all). My Denon 3808 - and almost all THX certified receivers (which, thankfully, my Denon is not) removes the dialog normalization by scaling the volume in the opposite direction to the setting. So it's, essentially, turning it off. Dialog Normalization was a good idea, but poorly implemented and explained - and now it's a mess. Regarding AC-3's channel coupling. DTS also couples channels at the 768 kbps rate and if the 96/24 option is used at that rate, it couples all high frequencies all the time - due to the adaptive delta sub-band coding DTS uses, at the lower bit rate it's either coupling or reducing high frequency response, which they already have reduced to -3db down from 15-20kHz. The channel coupling prevents them from having to reduce it further. MP-3 also uses channel coupling, as does AAC, but they call it "intensity stereo encoding" - the way our hearing works is at the high frequencies where coupling is used, we can't localize individual sounds precisely anyway - they found that out in the quadraphonic days when doing hearing tests for the National Quadraphonic Radio Committee listening panel. We hear the overall 'envelope' of the various high frequency sounds, their loudness and 'general direction' due to their level, but if a high frequency sound is accompanied by other sounds from other directions or from lower in the spectrum, the directionality disappears and we can only hear it and its overall level but not localize it - it's just kind of "there", in the mix of sounds. As AC-3's coding and psychoacoustic model was upgraded and improved over the years, the frequency that coupling was invoked at was moved higher and higher - at first it was 10kHz for 384kbps 5.1 channel signals (it's as low as 3kHz at the 320 kbps theatrical rate!) - at the 448 rate it starts around 16kHz or so, but since most movies and music simply don't have high level, high frequencies very often, it is rarely invoked at 448 since the sounds that do occur can usually be encoded without needing to couple channels. Anything higher than 448 kbps, like the D-Theater rate (which I can't recall its bitrate) or 640 kbps used on Blu-ray, and coupling isn't used at all - it's turned completely off. DD-Plus's enhanced coupling was implemented due to suggestions from the late Michael Gerzon (co-inventor of MLP encoding, inventor of Ambisonics and many of the dithering and other systems used to improve digital fidelity, such as Super Bit Mapping from Sony). He criticized Dolby's coupling for not including phase information since many sound formats use the phase-space of multi-channel to encode additional channels, and phase information also creates more realistic reproduction. So DD-Plus enhanced coupling can encode phase information with the coupling information to create a much more accurate recreation of the original signal. And I agree with you totally, DTS has always sounded better than Dolby - DTS started with the ability to use the full PCM tracks to encode the 5.1 channels, and the original ARTEC coder, later re-named Coherent Acoustics, was designed with that in mind - while Dolby Digital was started for television where the space was much more limited - when DVD came along, both Sony and Toshiba only offered Dolby a space of around 400kbps - it was the merging of SD and MMCD and the new MPEG streams packet size that allowed 448kbps to fit - if the DVD forum had been smart they would have required all players to reproduce the 640 rate that would be available as an option for discs that could spare the space. Pioneer's refusal to allow the PCM tracks on LD to be used for AC-3 further kept them from developing a higher bitrate version. So AC-3 was kinda crippled from the beginning - Dolby always said they didn't think it was a good enough format for a music-only carrier - that's why they were a part of the working group for DVD-Audio - they took on MLP licensing because Meridian had no prior experience with large-scale licensing like DVD-A required. Now, sadly, all Dolby does is license or buy other technologies - there is no innovation there anymore. I hate the fact that DTS sold off their theatrical division and also abandoned the music division. I was told by someone from DTS Entertainment that DTS never wanted to be in the music distribution business anyway - they only did it to get DTS decoders sold and the format established. When they lost the DVD-Audio war - and they lost it fairly - they did a few more releases, but their heart really wasn't in it - the Queen DVD-A's were some of the best selling titles and DTS had promised Brian May that all the Queen albums would get DVD-Audio releases, but they dropped that as fast as they could when new avenues of money came about, like buying a digital film restoration company and Neural Surround - the purchase of Neural put a stop to any DTS Neo-6 decoder from being developed. One thing I find distressing about the current home video industry is the remixing that goes on for home video - companies used to pride themselves on delivering a soundtrack that was an exact duplicate of the theatrical mix - but not anymore... it's depressing. In fact, the whole state of the home video industry is depressing. I love Blu-ray, when its done right (although I preferred HD-DVD) and while I use streaming for watching TV shows and stuff, it in no way can compete with Blu-ray for picture or sound quality and the industry push to all streaming is heartbreaking. The fact that we have nothing equivalent to the VCR that can permanently record and edit HD broadcasts is awful. BD recorders are widely available in Japan, yet they won't introduce them here - and they've all but killed off the DVD recorder as a stand-alone product. I have no interest in TIVO because it's not permanent and I don't trust hard drives - I've had too many fail on me. LaserDisc makes me feel like I used to - that I have some choice in what I want to buy and that, for the most part, it's the very best that can be delivered to us at home. I'll bet you feel the same way, Blaine.

Author:	tomtastic [ 30 Aug 2012, 04:22 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going through my HDs and now really wonder why blue ray
disclord wrote: Quote: The fact that we have nothing equivalent to the VCR that can permanently record and edit HD broadcasts is awful. BD recorders are widely available in Japan, yet they won't introduce them here - and they've all but killed off the DVD recorder as a stand-alone product. I have no interest in TIVO because it's not permanent and I don't trust hard drives - I've had too many fail on me. The new HD PVR I bought works well. It captures in 1080i which is what Directv is right now and 5.1 DD, doesn't capture DTS but I don't think there are any broadcasts that use it. There's only so much room on the Directv DVR, I think 250GB. And a BD recorder in BD-RW wouldn't be practical either. 50GB wouldn't be enough to work with. When you capture at 1920x1080i you really need between 7-10mb/s raw capture. You can compress it down later and make the files smaller with no noticeable drop in quality. But with a BD recorder you'd have it filled up in 5-10 hours depending on bit rate. That's quite a bit smaller than a standard DVR so it comes down to 50 GB vs 250 GB. Of course HD PVR is only limited to how big your drives are. I like both DD and DTS and I wished they'd put both on there, hell go ahead and put SDDS on there too, maybe someday they'll add that to my AVR. If it's DTS then they often do have both, but the 5.1 is in a different language and you get a 2.0 DD. If it's a True HD then it usually doesn't have the DTS at all. At least with some (very few DTS titles) they include True HD in 5.1 English, but maybe that has more to do with the studio than DTS... The thing is there's room on BD to do it. I could see not doing it on HD DVD, especially if it was a 15 GB disc, but with 50 GB you can easily get 36 gb/s plus DTS MA and True HD. I've compressed them down to 3.5 mb/s and I can't tell the difference in video quality, so if they needed to compress them down further than they already are, they could.

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