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 Post subject: Lady and the Tramp 14673 AS full screen 1.33 ratio
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012, 01:58 
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so i just picked up a copy of this Lady and the Tramp (1955) [14673 AS]

i know that there is the wide screen and the academy ratio, this is the academy version.
but other releases of Lady and the Tramp are all listed as pan and scan, i think these are listed wrong.

anybody have any of the other listings? if so can you list which version you have or send a correction on the page of the correct disc.

i had the Japanese release years ago but i don't remember what it was and i sold it when i bought the widescreen THX version not knowing to keep it.
wish i didn't do that.
but now have both screen versions :thumbup:
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 Post subject: Re: Lady and the Tramp 14673 AS full screen 1.33 ratio
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012, 02:58 
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I read that info about the different aspect ratios and it didn't make a lot of sense to me. Are people saying that all wide versions of the film are cropped (this would include the BR) or that they actually shot the movie twice? Neither makes much sense to me.

I have a version of this movie on LD (not sure which one) and also the BR. If all 4:3 versions (except for this LD you have) are P&S versions of a matted version that was originally 4:3...that's a huge waste of resolution! It should be very obvious in comparison testing. You would be effectively reducing the cel sizes from cinema size to TV size, which doesn't look good when projected onto a full sized movie screen.

Btw, this is the best BR I've ever seen. The clarity is amazing.
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 Post subject: Re: Lady and the Tramp 14673 AS full screen 1.33 ratio
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012, 04:41 
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the film was shot twice, once as 2.35 and 1.33 not croped.

almost like Nosferatu the Vampyre: Special Edition (1979) [RGL9648]
they shot it once in german and then did the scene again in english.

so i'm trying to figure out if the ones listed as pan and scan are really 2.35 that are croped OR are they the original
1.33 version that is listed wrong.

the only 2.35 versions on LD are:
Lady and the Tramp (1955) [15344 AS]
Lady and the Tramp: Collector's Edition (1955) [14673 CS]
and two Japanese releases.
Lady and the Tramp (1955) [PILA-3013]
Lady and the Tramp (1955) [PILA-3012]
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 Post subject: Re: Lady and the Tramp 14673 AS full screen 1.33 ratio
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012, 09:46 
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I once saw a clip of a Laurel and Hardy movie that was shot twice, also once in German, once in English. They didn't speak German, so it was all memorized phonetically shot for shot. Kind of hilarious.

Anyway, the one I have is Lady and the Tramp (1955) [582 CS]. I'll see of I can figure out which version it is my checking against the BR.

It won't be easy to tell though, if they really did shoot it twice...God that's stupid. The backgrounds and cels would all be the same (unless they were really really REALLY stupid) so its still effectively P&S, its just pan and scanned while being shot instead of during the telecine process.
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 Post subject: Re: Lady and the Tramp 14673 AS full screen 1.33 ratio
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012, 13:42 
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This review of the Platinum Edition DVD of Lady and the Tramp explains some of the differences betwixt the CinemaScope, Academy Ratio and P&S versions . . .

Animated Views - Lady And The Tramp: 50th Anniversary Platinum Edition

Image
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 Post subject: Re: Lady and the Tramp 14673 AS full screen 1.33 ratio
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012, 15:05 
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i just hope that others can figure out if their LD that is listed as P/S realy isn't.
the THX release can't be the only release as the correct 1.33.

also at the time some theatres were not setup to project the film as 2.35 so they were sent the 1.33 version.
makes total sense but i really want to know about the other LD releases.
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 Post subject: Re: Lady and the Tramp 14673 AS full screen 1.33 ratio
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012, 17:14 
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rein-o wrote:
i just hope that others can figure out if their LD that is listed as P/S realy isn't.
the THX release can't be the only release as the correct 1.33.

also at the time some theatres were not setup to project the film as 2.35 so they were sent the 1.33 version.
makes total sense but i really want to know about the other LD releases.


The Robe and Seven Brides for Seven Brothers were also shot in both CinemaScope and flat because at the time, Fox and the other studios were not sure that CinemaScope would become a standard and they wanted to protect thir films future viability. It was the same with the first few Todd-AO 70mm films - since Todd-AO ran at 30 frames per second and couldn't be converted to 24fps for 35mm, Oklahoma was shot twice in 70 and 35mm - the two versions are very different. For Around The World In 80 Days they shot it twice in 70mm, one at 30 fps and one at 24fps. After that, Todd-AO switched to 24fps for all future films. Cinerama switched from 26fps to 24fps for Brothers Grimm and How The West Was Won so they could make 35mm and 70mm composite prints from the 3 panel originals.
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 Post subject: Re: Lady and the Tramp 14673 AS full screen 1.33 ratio
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012, 17:25 
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forgot about that one, i saw the DVD of seven brides, and they had an extras part to show the differnt camera angles.

pretty cool that they just had 2 cameras on set for that one.
and if you compare the 2, you can see the camera on a slight angle from the other but still getting the whole scene.
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 Post subject: Re: Lady and the Tramp 14673 AS full screen 1.33 ratio
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012, 18:21 
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elahrairrah wrote:
This review of the Platinum Edition DVD of Lady and the Tramp explains some of the differences betwixt the CinemaScope, Academy Ratio and P&S versions . . .

Animated Views - Lady And The Tramp: 50th Anniversary Platinum Edition

Image


If these shots are correct, for sure, then it should be easy to check any LD for framing using this same frame in the movie.

Image

It seems that Lady and the Tramp (1955) [582 CS] is indeed a P&S version of a scope print. Its also even more zoomed in than the DVD.
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 Post subject: Re: Lady and the Tramp 14673 AS full screen 1.33 ratio
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012, 19:21 
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that one looks like a p/s to me.
so hopefully that release that i posted on top is not the only LD in the 1.33 ratio
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 Post subject: Re: Lady and the Tramp 14673 AS full screen 1.33 ratio
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012, 22:57 
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elahrairrah wrote:
This review of the Platinum Edition DVD of Lady and the Tramp explains some of the differences betwixt the CinemaScope, Academy Ratio and P&S versions . . .

Animated Views - Lady And The Tramp: 50th Anniversary Platinum Edition

Image


That does my head in! Also framing top and bottom reminds of Super35 and I loath that aspect ratio! So did Disney CGI the rest of the image for scope it does my head in, it does! I haven't seen this film, since a re-issue in the early 70's

imdb its stated as
Quote:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048280/
Runtime: 76 min
Sound Mix: 4-Track Stereo (RCA Sound Recording) (magnetic prints) | Mono (optical prints) | Dolby (1986 re-issue print) (as Dolby Stereo)
Color: Color (Technicolor)
Aspect Ratio: 2.55 : 1
See full technical specs »
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048280/technical


Even animated films have grain, bet the BR was DNR all the way to fake the image looking it was filmed with digital camera.
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 Post subject: Re: Lady and the Tramp 14673 AS full screen 1.33 ratio
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2012, 02:27 
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laserbite34 wrote:

That does my head in! Also framing top and bottom reminds of Super35 and I loath that aspect ratio! So did Disney CGI the rest of the image for scope it does my head in, it does! I haven't seen this film, since a re-issue in the early 70's

imdb its stated as
Quote:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048280/
Runtime: 76 min
Sound Mix: 4-Track Stereo (RCA Sound Recording) (magnetic prints) | Mono (optical prints) | Dolby (1986 re-issue print) (as Dolby Stereo)
Color: Color (Technicolor)
Aspect Ratio: 2.55 : 1
See full technical specs »
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048280/technical


Even animated films have grain, bet the BR was DNR all the way to fake the image looking it was filmed with digital camera.

no, all animation was done in the 50s, it was just shot 2 different ways.
DNR no wonder i don't like the look of DVDs etc.
i never knew the name for it before.

it really makes silent and older films look like garbage, heck it makes all films look like garbage.
i remember when i bought Metropolis on DVD back around 2001? and i just hated the picture, it looked nice with no scratches or any issues but it also
had a very soft look that i didn't like.

that's one of the reasons that i started buying LDs again, at the time i only had about 100.
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 Post subject: Re: Lady and the Tramp 14673 AS full screen 1.33 ratio
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2012, 02:46 
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rein-o wrote:
laserbite34 wrote:

That does my head in! Also framing top and bottom reminds of Super35 and I loath that aspect ratio! So did Disney CGI the rest of the image for scope it does my head in, it does! I haven't seen this film, since a re-issue in the early 70's

imdb its stated as
Quote:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048280/
Runtime: 76 min
Sound Mix: 4-Track Stereo (RCA Sound Recording) (magnetic prints) | Mono (optical prints) | Dolby (1986 re-issue print) (as Dolby Stereo)
Color: Color (Technicolor)
Aspect Ratio: 2.55 : 1
See full technical specs »
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048280/technical


Even animated films have grain, bet the BR was DNR all the way to fake the image looking it was filmed with digital camera.

no, all animation was done in the 50s, it was just shot 2 different ways.
DNR no wonder i don't like the look of DVDs etc.
i never knew the name for it before.

it really makes silent and older films look like garbage, heck it makes all films look like garbage.
i remember when i bought Metropolis on DVD back around 2001? and i just hated the picture, it looked nice with no scratches or any issues but it also
had a very soft look that i didn't like.

that's one of the reasons that i started buying LDs again, at the time i only had about 100.


My CRT has DNR on it (for as and when I want to use it) once "one" has spent all the money they made off on eBay for their Laserdiscs so they can blow it on DNRay poor lambs, I bet they must feel really gutted! EE is another bad use on DVD and blu's. I've hardly noticed EE on Laserdics unless there are some out there that has it, where it sticks out! You can use the sharpness to soften it down but it wreaks the rest of the picture to bluer-ay.

Very few blu's ever might use DNR or EE a few just isn't good enough, that's why I'm slowly stepping down from buying them, I'd look at screen captures first if its free from EE and looks gritty and grainy then I might buy it, (might buy it).

Take a look at The Jewel of the Nile http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/dvdrevie ... lu-ray.htm

I sure hope the Laserdisc I brought doesn't look like this. The colour skin tones look okay as does the rest of it, its EE that ticks me off!
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/dvdrevie ... u-ray8.jpg

Do they use EE on animated films I have yet to buy one on blu thou I don't care for animated blu's I only have one Disney film Beauty and the Beast on DVD.

Lady and the Tramp bluray it looks too smooth and even film on its first run at cinema has grainy look. It looks like how it was painted each cell but its far too clean. DNR comes to mind?
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Lady-and- ... -ray/7710/

What's the deal with 3.0 I read on imdb it was 4-track mag.

Some 35mm slides of Lady and the Tramp on eBay I was looking for a 35mm film a whole film, well sometimes one does show up but no doubt faded to pink by now.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=l ... &_osacat=0


Last edited by laserbite34 on 15 Jul 2012, 03:14, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Lady and the Tramp 14673 AS full screen 1.33 ratio
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2012, 03:12 
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alright, stupid question, what is EE?
i know movies, and i know i like LDs since they have a picture quality that i like.
but you, disclord and a couple others know way too much on this stuff and makes me :crazy:

all my history is, father bought us an LD combo player to get CDs and LDs to upgrade from LPs and VHS.
i had too many discs and wanted to get a better player for what i wanted to spend and
have extras like the LD-G

i just love movies and watching them, but don't know too much of the tech specs that you guys talk about.
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 Post subject: Re: Lady and the Tramp 14673 AS full screen 1.33 ratio
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2012, 03:17 
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rein-o wrote:
alright, stupid question, what is EE?
i know movies, and i know i like LDs since they have a picture quality that i like.
but you, disclord and a couple others know way too much on this stuff and makes me :crazy:

all my history is, father bought us an LD combo player to get CDs and LDs to upgrade from LPs and VHS.
i had too many discs and wanted to get a better player for what i wanted to spend and
have extras like the LD-G

i just love movies and watching them, but don't know too much of the tech specs that you guys talk about.


Edge Enhancement it sharpens up the image kinder like the sharpness control on the TV. It makes end credits more whiter and brighter than Tom Cruise's teeth. :mrgreen: its horrible looking, no not Tom, the EE.

Fair enough I respect you like to relax and watch but even with old films being converted to digital for cinema, well I have now lost all interest in going to the cinema now. Video cinema has killed the celluloid star. :cry: They use DNR on old films for cinema exhibition. Sir, David Lean will be rolling around if he knew the state it has come to, today.


Last edited by laserbite34 on 15 Jul 2012, 03:41, edited 3 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Lady and the Tramp 14673 AS full screen 1.33 ratio
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2012, 03:18 
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rein-o wrote:
alright, stupid question, what is EE?
i know movies, and i know i like LDs since they have a picture quality that i like.
but you, disclord and a couple others know way too much on this stuff and makes me :crazy:

all my history is, father bought us an LD combo player to get CDs and LDs to upgrade from LPs and VHS.
i had too many discs and wanted to get a better player for what i wanted to spend and
have extras like the LD-G

i just love movies and watching them, but don't know too much of the tech specs that you guys talk about.


Edge Enhancement - where you see a white line around everything making it appear sharp, but the EE destroys real picture detail. Film is not a sharp medium, it has a soft sharpness and the EE is just out of control on many releases. It started on LaserDisc with titles like the widescreen Hindenburg and just got worse on DVD - Blu-ray should never have any. The Phantom Menace DVD is just destroyed by EE.
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 Post subject: Re: Lady and the Tramp 14673 AS full screen 1.33 ratio
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2012, 03:28 
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disclord wrote:
rein-o wrote:
alright, stupid question, what is EE?
i know movies, and i know i like LDs since they have a picture quality that i like.
but you, disclord and a couple others know way too much on this stuff and makes me :crazy:

all my history is, father bought us an LD combo player to get CDs and LDs to upgrade from LPs and VHS.
i had too many discs and wanted to get a better player for what i wanted to spend and
have extras like the LD-G

i just love movies and watching them, but don't know too much of the tech specs that you guys talk about.


Edge Enhancement - where you see a white line around everything making it appear sharp, but the EE destroys real picture detail. Film is not a sharp medium, it has a soft sharpness and the EE is just out of control on many releases. It started on LaserDisc with titles like the widescreen Hindenburg and just got worse on DVD - Blu-ray should never have any. The Phantom Menace DVD is just destroyed by EE.


I like that film have only seen it partly in scope on TV years ago.

Episode 1 is it on Laserdisc not that I cared to look hard enough for edges of objects for that annoying halo around it. I have noticed on the R2 DVD the EE.

Maybe stuff like EE should be added into the database but its hell of lot titles to go though on Laser!

Was Universal or MCA the worst offender for EE maybe we should take this to a new thread and EE DNR thread not that I can see DNR on Laserdisc I often use the TV PNR picture noise reduction to soften down if needed.
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 Post subject: Re: Lady and the Tramp 14673 AS full screen 1.33 ratio
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2012, 03:31 
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My opinion of the Lady and the Tramp BR is that its the best BR I've seen. Sure, they removed grain, but the end product is not some photoshopped looking mess. There is a lot of detail in a movie like this, texture in the backgrounds mainly, but also some effects are quite subtle.

Its hard to experience playing a vinyl record without static pops, groove rush, and dust. Its a side effect of a medium that is otherwise wonderful. I don't actually NEED the pops and hiss to enjoy the music though. The LatT BR is like a brand new quality 180g LP. Not one of the overly mastered ones (Iron Maiden, Genesis) but a quality one with all the subtleties of the original recording (ie: Unknown Pleasures). The animators didn't put that grain in there, it just couldn't be avoided.

This is in contrast to, for example, a lot of cheap anime on DVD and BR. Recently we were talking about Dragon Ball on BR. The screen shots I'm looking at area clearer than the setups that were cameraed. Not only is there no film grain, there are no cel shadows, no brush stokes, no tint changes from thick set-ups, no scratches, no dirt...there is no way that cheap-ass show is supposed to look like that. Its like George Lucas messed with it or something. There is no way you could do the Dragon Ball thing to LatT without messing it all up. This goes double for Fantasia. I don't have Fantasia on BR, but it would be the ultimate test of HD mastering, IMO, since the animation has so much more than the usual cell work that became popular later (ie: black lines, solid colors, no gradation).
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 Post subject: Re: Lady and the Tramp 14673 AS full screen 1.33 ratio
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2012, 03:43 
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o.k. so one way to tell is the white is way too bright?
thanks again for the info.

as for the extra detail from BD i feel that it's too much sometimes, and it's just overkill.
when i was at target and they had some demo playing you could see the blackheads on the girls nose :sick:
no thank you, i don't need that much detail, i don't need to feel like i'm looking at everything
with a magnifying glass, i just want to see a good clear picture without blackheads or ingrown hairs.
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 Post subject: Re: Lady and the Tramp 14673 AS full screen 1.33 ratio
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2012, 03:49 
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If a 35mm print showed up on eBay shouldn't be clear and colourful I though some Technicolor process used three stripe? The slides I found on eBay are slightly pink due to fading!
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