LaserDisc Database
https://forum.lddb.com/

The hobbit 48fps or hfr (high frame rate)
https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2098		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  smitken [ 22 Dec 2012, 16:45 ]
Post subject:  The hobbit 48fps or hfr (high frame rate)
Just been to see the hobbit movie for the second time, this time in the new 48fps format
To be honest I'm a bit disappointed there appears to loads of detail a bit like watching high def for the first time, however it just doesn't seem film like to me, more like watching high def camcorder footage.
Anyone else compared the two formats?

Maybe it's a case of less is more, a bit like when I want to watch saving private Ryan I prefer my laserdisc version to my blu ray :)

Interested in hearing what you all make of this new format
Author:  laserbite34 [ 22 Dec 2012, 17:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: The hobbit 48fps or hfr (high frame rate)
I get the idea and I'll take a PASS on seeing this thank you. The Dolby Atmos side seems interesting but Warner Bros have only had it played one night for its premiere at Empire Leicester Square, screen 1 as well as Odeon screen 1. Its national opening day will only be shown at Odoen Leicester Square screen 1.

Nope I'd prefer 35mm while it still lasts.
Author:  tomtastic [ 22 Dec 2012, 17:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: The hobbit 48fps or hfr (high frame rate)
Just so no one is discouraged in seeing the movie, The Hobbit 48 fps version is only available in the 3D HFR, and in a very limited release, you can see it in regular 24 fps in 2d and 3D non HFR.

This appears to be theaters that have 3D HFR showings:

http://www.48fpsmovies.com/48-fps-theater-list/
Author:  rein-o [ 22 Dec 2012, 18:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: The hobbit 48fps or hfr (high frame rate)
there was a review in the local free magazine about this.
they called it 48fps video, which i thougt was funny, since we all want to see "film" and not "video"
Author:  hippiedalek [ 22 Dec 2012, 18:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: The hobbit 48fps or hfr (high frame rate)
I've yet to see it in 48fps but I'm planning to next week, will report back. I enjoyed the film at 24fps but I was disappointed at the almost complete reliance on CGI when the LOTR trilogy was a love letter to practical effects and model work.
Author:  rein-o [ 22 Dec 2012, 18:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: The hobbit 48fps or hfr (high frame rate)
the one reason i won't see this in a theatre is that the story of the hobbit was very weak, and stretching it out
over 2 films is just a machine to take more of my money.

now i do also have issues with the 3 LOTR films but at least there is a story of them trying and actually saving middle earth.
the hobbit is just about a dragon and that's it, very long book that should have only been 1 film.
Author:  tomtastic [ 22 Dec 2012, 18:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: The hobbit 48fps or hfr (high frame rate)
The big question is will we need to upgrade our displays and BD players when this thing hits the shelves and how many different copies will there be?

2D 24 FPS Blu ray
3D 24 FPS Blu ray and 2D version
3D 48 FPS Blu ray and 2D version
3D 48 FPS Blu ray, 3D 24 FPS and 2D version (49.99 best guess)

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

Or will updates be enough for current displays/players to playback 48 FPS content?
Author:  hippiedalek [ 22 Dec 2012, 18:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: The hobbit 48fps or hfr (high frame rate)
rein-o wrote:
the one reason i won't see this in a theatre is that the story of the hobbit was very weak, and stretching it out
over 2 films is just a machine to take more of my money

I could understand the original plan of making it a two part film, and An Unexpected Journey is exactly what I thought the first of two parts would be; up to the escape from the Goblin King leaving the dragon and archenstone (sp?) for part two.

But now there's going to be three parts I have no idea what they're going to fill it with unless the third film is all battle. Saying that they have fleshed out a lot of implied story lines that weren't made explicit until the LOTR novels but again I can't see how that could flesh it out enough to three films.
Author:  publius [ 22 Dec 2012, 19:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: The hobbit 48fps or hfr (high frame rate)
I really would prefer to see it in 48 FPS non-3D.
The higher frame rate, like the 30 FPS of the original Todd-AO system, or the 60 FPS of Douglas Trumbull's ShowScan, gives a much stronger illusion of reality, as well as smoother motion. Like the wider colour space available from RGB primaries, this is something the cinematography crowd affects to despise, on the theory that motion judder & limited colours provide a "proscenium arch" effect which helps the viewer recognize that this is art rather than the Miss America pageant.
Frankly I think that's absurd — some motion pictures benefit by being in black-&-white, others by the ultra-wide colourspace of 3-strip Technicolor. One isn't inherently more artistic than the other.
It is true, however, that high-frame-rate projection, & especially 3D, without motion cues (as provided by theme-park rides that use ShowScan), can cause you to lose your lunch.
Author:  laserbite34 [ 22 Dec 2012, 19:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: The hobbit 48fps or hfr (high frame rate)
tomtastic wrote:
Just so no one is discouraged in seeing the movie, The Hobbit 48 fps version is only available in the 3D HFR, and in a very limited release, you can see it in regular 24 fps in 2d and 3D non HFR.

This appears to be theaters that have 3D HFR showings:

http://www.48fpsmovies.com/48-fps-theater-list/

You're joking? That many versions.

Bring back regular 5 pef 70mm.

tomtastic wrote:
The big question is will we need to upgrade our displays and BD players when this thing hits the shelves and how many different copies will there be?

2D 24 FPS Blu ray
3D 24 FPS Blu ray and 2D version
3D 48 FPS Blu ray and 2D version
3D 48 FPS Blu ray, 3D 24 FPS and 2D version (49.99 best guess)

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

Or will updates be enough for current displays/players to playback 48 FPS content?


THE HOBBIT! :thumbdown: I'm not interested now its turning into media circus format. Stuff the bluray as well.

publius wrote:
I really would prefer to see it in 48 FPS non-3D.
The higher frame rate, like the 30 FPS of the original Todd-AO system, or the 60 FPS of Douglas Trumbull's ShowScan, gives a much stronger illusion of reality, as well as smoother motion. Like the wider colour space available from RGB primaries, this is something the cinematography crowd affects to despise, on the theory that motion judder & limited colours provide a "proscenium arch" effect which helps the viewer recognize that this is art rather than the Miss America pageant.
Frankly I think that's absurd — some motion pictures benefit by being in black-&-white, others by the ultra-wide colourspace of 3-strip Technicolor. One isn't inherently more artistic than the other.
It is true, however, that high-frame-rate projection, & especially 3D, without motion cues (as provided by theme-park rides that use ShowScan), can cause you to lose your lunch.


Yeah the ShowScan that I read in visual effects book of many years ago in the 80's. Too bad it went into liquidation a few years ago.
Author:  firehorse_44 [ 23 Dec 2012, 02:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: The hobbit 48fps or hfr (high frame rate)
Bringing the LOTR to the big screen and doing it justice was nearly an impossible feat.
Same with The Hobbit.
I cut Peter Jackson a bit of slack in LOTR since to me it was done quite well if you consider the extended versions added content.
(Leaving Tom Bombadil out of the original mix was a mistake though..........)

After viewing the Hobbit once in 3D and once in 2D I will give him that same leeway.
Tweeking the story in regard to the albino orc and worg influences I will not pretend to understand, however the inerpretation of the Dwarven history and the fact that he gave Radagast the Brown such a great spotlight allows me to overlook some of my critique with regard to artist imbellishments

Hands down the Hobbit is well done.
The reprise of Galadriel and Frodo was very clever as to not imbalance the story as they were not mentioned in the original written work.
Ian Holm reflecting on his travels at home in Bag End with Frodo at the beginning really took me by surprise.
The diverse personae of the dwarven tribe could not have been better brought to life !
Was actually surprised at how well they played their roles......
Also the musical score was meshed in from the first series of films with a new take for The Hobbit.

Mention of the "spawn of Ungoliant" and having included the "Witch King of Angmar" in the mix has made this Tolkien fan want to rush home and open the Silmarllion......

Comon Jackson, you KNOW their are several movies for the making in the SILMARILLION >>>>> LoL !
Author:  smitken [ 23 Dec 2012, 14:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: The hobbit 48fps or hfr (high frame rate)
Comon Jackson, you KNOW their are several movies for the making in the SILMARILLION >>>>> LoL


My understanding is the the rights for the silmarillion are still with the Tolkein estate and so it will never be made whilst Chrisopher Tolkein is still alive, the only reason LOTR was made was that Tolkein sold the rights many years ago
Author:  disclord [ 23 Dec 2012, 21:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: The hobbit 48fps or hfr (high frame rate)
Shaowscan's frame rate was 60fps - extensive testing with subjects watching films projected at rates from 30 to 120fps revealed that, while increased frame rates created increasing realism, there was no subjective improvement in viewers psychological or physiological response to frame rates above 60fps.

Back in the mid-80's I saw a weird Chevy commercial (aliens abducted a family to get their new Chevy) shot and projected in Showscan and it was amazing -it wasn't like television, nor was it like film - it was just 'real'. The Showscan sequences in 'Secrets of Luxor' in Vegas at the Luxor hotel were stunning too, especially the middle portion with live actors interacting with actors on film - they sat you far enough away from the screen so that normal 3D vision broke down and it did indeed seem totally real.
Author:  signofzeta [ 23 Dec 2012, 21:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: The hobbit 48fps or hfr (high frame rate)
The 48fps ver is getting a lot of negative press and while I haven't seen the movie at all yet, I can see why. Haven't we learned by now that the constant search for ever more accurate proximations of realism are getting to be completely pointless? Most of us have, honestly. I'm watching a movie, everything in it is fake. I don't need more realism when I'm watching dragons and elves and stuff.

The Instagram generation is going to be especially non plused about the "soap opera" look. Young people want texture added back into stuff people have worked so hard to remove.

My friend has a TV that has some sort of "motion smoothing" BS in it. I was watching Smokey and the Bandit and it looked like it was shot at 60fps! I was amazed this tech existed, but I was also amazed anyone wanted it because it looks flat out GROSS.
Author:  sdraper [ 24 Dec 2012, 21:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: The hobbit 48fps or hfr (high frame rate)
publius wrote:
I really would prefer to see it in 48 FPS non-3D.
The higher frame rate, like the 30 FPS of the original Todd-AO system, or the 60 FPS of Douglas Trumbull's ShowScan, gives a much stronger illusion of reality, as well as smoother motion. Like the wider colour space available from RGB primaries, this is something the cinematography crowd affects to despise, on the theory that motion judder & limited colours provide a "proscenium arch" effect which helps the viewer recognize that this is art rather than the Miss America pageant.
Frankly I think that's absurd — some motion pictures benefit by being in black-&-white, others by the ultra-wide colourspace of 3-strip Technicolor. One isn't inherently more artistic than the other.
It is true, however, that high-frame-rate projection, & especially 3D, without motion cues (as provided by theme-park rides that use ShowScan), can cause you to lose your lunch.

And I thought 30fps Todd-AO looked bad. This will probably make me feel awful.
Author:  Guest [ 24 Dec 2012, 22:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: The hobbit 48fps or hfr (high frame rate)
I saw the 48 FPS version on Friday. Without going into my thoughts on the quality of the actual movie, I hated the high frame rate. It looks EXACTLY like the "tru-motion" or whatever they call it option on some HDTVs. Everyone looks like they're moving in 1.5x fast forward but they're not; it's so weird and distracting. It also completely kills the film-like nature of the print.

I don't think I would ever pay to see HFR in theaters again.
Author:  disclord [ 25 Dec 2012, 00:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: The hobbit 48fps or hfr (high frame rate)
sdraper wrote:
publius wrote:
I really would prefer to see it in 48 FPS non-3D.
The higher frame rate, like the 30 FPS of the original Todd-AO system, or the 60 FPS of Douglas Trumbull's ShowScan, gives a much stronger illusion of reality, as well as smoother motion. Like the wider colour space available from RGB primaries, this is something the cinematography crowd affects to despise, on the theory that motion judder & limited colours provide a "proscenium arch" effect which helps the viewer recognize that this is art rather than the Miss America pageant.
Frankly I think that's absurd — some motion pictures benefit by being in black-&-white, others by the ultra-wide colourspace of 3-strip Technicolor. One isn't inherently more artistic than the other.
It is true, however, that high-frame-rate projection, & especially 3D, without motion cues (as provided by theme-park rides that use ShowScan), can cause you to lose your lunch.

And I thought 30fps Todd-AO looked bad. This will probably make me feel awful.


I LOVE 30fps Todd-AO. Cinerama at 26fps is also wonderful. 30fps Todd-AO transfers wonderfully to video since no 3/2 pull down is needed and thus no motion judder. And theatrically, in 70mm, it really creates a wonderful event. However the 120fps and 240 fps rates some new TV's have are awful, especially because they are totally artificial - the image wasn't shot at that rate so it's has a synthetic look that's disturbing in some way I can't quite identify.
Author:  tomtastic [ 25 Dec 2012, 01:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: The hobbit 48fps or hfr (high frame rate)
I thought they looked a bit strange when I first saw a 120/240 Hz display. I don't notice it on mine now, it's 120 Hz. I used to think the higher Hz didn't matter but it actually corrects some problems with 24p/30p since there aren't 24 Hz 30 Hz displays.

60 Hz converts 24p to 30p twice every 30th of a second, 120 Hz repeats the same 24 Hz frame 5 times every 24th a second. You get a sharper, clearer picture, less blur.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/