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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2012, 20:03 
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Johnny Mnemonic (1995)
Format: Blu ray
Audio: DTS HD MA 5.1

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I first saw this on a VHS rental shortly after it was released to home video. It has the same tech junky feel of The Lawnmower Man,
Virtuosity and Strange Days and has roughly the same entertainment value. Later I bought the DVD and it has seen a few showings
since its purchase. Is it worth going after the Blu ray?

Let's take a look.

Computer CGI resembles The Lawnmower man from 1992 and Virtuosity which released about 3 months later.
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There's a number of dark scenes in the film as it seems to takes place entirely at night settings. Given the lower lightening levels
the film is still fairly sharp with some hard to see areas, but that is to be expected. The Blu ray is a big improvement over my DVD
full screen version as it's presented here in 1.85 on the Blu ray as well as minor improvement in detail, sharpness, color/contrast.
It isn't a huge difference, but it's there.

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"I want ROOM SERVICE! I want the club sandwich, I want the cold Mexican beer, I want a $10,000-a-night hooker!
I want my shirts laundered... like they do... at the Imperial Hotel... in Tokyo."


Missing Scene:
This image, on the back of the Blu ray which I believe is also on the back of the DVD and also the soundtrack
I'd have to check on those, I have them both, is missing from the movie. Either a deleted/unfinished or
promotional shot. Dina Meyer is so hot in this movie as well as Starship Troopers. It's a great shot and I
wish it were in the movie. I still look for it every time I watch it.
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The gadgets:

The VR3
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The Sino-Logic 16
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Mini Disc sighting:
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Mini Disc on fire:
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Oops. The Concorde didn't quite make it to the year 2021:
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Neither did VHS as there's a line late in the movie for everyone to start up their VCRs! VCR? Really? In
2021 everyone is still using them? :lol: Another interesting gadget though not shown was
mentioned as the Thompson iPhone. I would think this would be the first mention ever even though
it wasn't an actual prop or product.

It's Jesus time!: Dolph Lundgren as this barely recognizable Jesus freak. He's also top billed
yet has a very small part.
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Besides having the same actor Keanu Reeves, Johnny Mnemonic and The Matrix share some striking
similarities.

Both films have a scene where they are in the subway: as does Speed (thanks laserbite
forgot all about that one!)
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Both Mnemonic and the Matrix sequel share the bad guys in a techno club.
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Mr. Anderson performs very similar relaxation maneuvers in both films.
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In both films he's jacked in:
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Both films have the "Agents" dressed in black suit and ties and white shirts.
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When I first saw The Matrix in theater I immediately remembered this film. They're both very different yet share some
major similarities. I'm sure if we looked harder there would be more. Both have a strong asian influence. Both films
have Johnny/Neo saving humanity. Anything else I missed?

Audio is nothing spectacular. There's several scenes with rear effects, explosions, gun fights, it's not The Matrix, so
don't expect to be wowed in the same way. The original release was Dolby and SDDS but appears they went with DTS HD MA,
like most releases now.

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Bottom Line: If you're looking to add this to your collection, the Blu ray is a solid choice. The video quality is
about is good as it will ever get as the film is mostly dark scenes with artificial lightening. There's still some film grain
but it's canceled out by the darker contrast. Special Features? None. A making of documentary would be nice.

Grading:

Picture: 6.5 A much sharper image than the DVD, it's decent but not great, and not really a fault of the transfer
but a limitation of the darker image and scenes. You may want to view this one at night and turn down your ambient
lighting. Then it won't be notably disappointing.
Audio: 7.0 For an action movie of this caliber you should really be blown away but you're not. Still it's enough to
get by and you'll find plenty of front and rear effects, they just don't woosh and pop like you might expect. Maybe with
some tinkering and modifications on AVR a more intense setting could be found, but I doubt it.
Story/Plot: 6.0 Johnny Mnemonic has that 90's Sci fi cult status feeling to it. It was a movie I've seen a few times going
back to home video release so it belongs in my collection. The story isn't the greatest attempt at a Sci Fi masterpiece,
but it holds your attention about the same as The Lawnmower Man, Virtuosity and Strange Days. Not nearly as good as
Keanu Reeve's later film, The Matrix. If you haven't seen it, just keep your expectations low and you'll find something
enjoyable with it.
Overall: 6.5 I'd still recommend this film, it's Sci fi/action, Keanu Reeves isn't my favorite actor but he's only
annoying in one or two parts. It's worth watching once every few years.


Last edited by tomtastic on 28 Nov 2012, 20:20, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2012, 20:15 
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Last edited by laserbite34 on 29 Nov 2012, 19:15, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2012, 20:21 
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Updated that, thanks, forgot all about Speed. :thumbup:
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2012, 20:29 
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I need to pick up Le Mans, I've always wanted to see it. I don't think I ever have. Nice shots on that CRT, it looks great for CRT. :thumbup:
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2012, 20:37 
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Last edited by laserbite34 on 29 Nov 2012, 19:16, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2012, 20:39 
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2012, 21:16 
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laserbite34 wrote:
tomtastic wrote:
Updated that, thanks, forgot all about Speed. :thumbup:
Image

:lol: I wonder if it was the same subway as used in the Matrix? No that subway was a set not a real subway.

Is Johnny checking the framing for 1.85:1 :mrgreen:


Could be 1.85 or maybe 2.35, depends on if you go by the top of his index find and thumb. I'd say he was trying to petition the director to go for 2.35! :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2012, 21:54 
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Last edited by laserbite34 on 29 Nov 2012, 19:16, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2012, 23:08 
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High probability of laser rot too on the LD.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2012, 23:58 
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2012, 02:27 
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Watched Up on Blu Ray early. Now chilling out, watching Mission Impossible 3 on HD DVD
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2012, 02:51 
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laserbite34 wrote:
The original release was Dolby and SDDS but appears they went with DTS HD MA, like most releases now.


I honestly don't understand why this matters. Since there is no home SDDS system that can be ignored, but Dolby Digital is just a sound delivery format - there is nothing special about it, unlike, say SRS, and as you know, films are mixed the same no matter what theatrical sound format they'll be released in (well, except SDDS if it was 8 channels). Since DTS HD MA is absolutely lossless, there is no drawback or chage to a soundtrack using the format. Nor do DTS HD MA or Dolby True HD cost anything for studios to use on a blu-ray. So, why does it matter?
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2012, 03:18 
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2012, 04:53 
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laserbite34 wrote:
disclord wrote:
laserbite34 wrote:
The original release was Dolby and SDDS but appears they went with DTS HD MA, like most releases now.


I honestly don't understand why this matters. Since there is no home SDDS system that can be ignored, but Dolby Digital is just a sound delivery format - there is nothing special about it, unlike, say SRS, and as you know, films are mixed the same no matter what theatrical sound format they'll be released in (well, except SDDS if it was 8 channels). Since DTS HD MA is absolutely lossless, there is no drawback or chage to a soundtrack using the format. Nor do DTS HD MA or Dolby True HD cost anything for studios to use on a blu-ray. So, why does it matter?

I don't recall saying that on the last page. So why are you putting words into a quote I didn't say on the last page?

Quote:
It was also released in SDDS 8 channel.


You have mentioned it (DTS HD MA for BD instead of True HD since the theatrical release was in a Dolby system) negatively many times before - don't think I'm passing judgement or anything, I just truly wonder why it would matter as long as the home format used reproduces the original master losslessly.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2012, 05:14 
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disclord wrote:
laserbite34 wrote:
The original release was Dolby and SDDS but appears they went with DTS HD MA, like most releases now.


I honestly don't understand why this matters. Since there is no home SDDS system that can be ignored, but Dolby Digital is just a sound delivery format - there is nothing special about it, unlike, say SRS, and as you know, films are mixed the same no matter what theatrical sound format they'll be released in (well, except SDDS if it was 8 channels). Since DTS HD MA is absolutely lossless, there is no drawback or chage to a soundtrack using the format. Nor do DTS HD MA or Dolby True HD cost anything for studios to use on a blu-ray. So, why does it matter?


Those were my words.

It doesn't, technically. It's more of a purist thing. If a movie was originally shown with audio in a certain format which millions of people would have gone to see and then later released on DVD with the same compression format and now on Blu ray, I would expect to see that same progression. It's a pride of ownership thing. I know all the information is there and would really be indistinguishable between the two but I'd still prefer to have that option on the disc. If they want to use DTS that's fine too (not that we have a choice if it's the only option), but I'd still like to see the Dolby format if that's how it was delivered on the print.

Cost, may actually be a factor as putting both options would be more time consuming and also take up more space, but not really if they cut out all the other junk like previews and special features which could be moved to disc 2 and dumping 6 different language tracks for a North American release. If it went over to 2 discs that would increase the cost as well.

My favorite DVD releases were ones that had both Dolby Digital and DTS on the DVD such as Gladiator (2000). You had the Dolby Digital and DTS which were both available when shown in theater and both available on the disc. These were of course few and far between as Dolby had the market on DVD and now they are reversed in the HD market, except on the short-lived HD DVD library you'll find most of them with DD.

Again, compression could be done by anyone, a third party could come in and do it, you wouldn't even know the name, it could be called Digital MAXX audio or something else you never heard of, but why not continue the tradition and keep the audio delivery true to the original? With the exception of SDDS for obvious reasons there's no reason why there shouldn't be both if they were originally shown with both. When I first heard about HD DVD and Blu ray, I sort of half-expected these formats to do that considering the vast increase in space, but that isn't the case. I think it really comes down to 1536 kb/s vs 640 and most home theater enthusiasts see that as better quality so DTS HD MA is now the standard which means most people just don't care about who's name is on the delivery.

So yeah, I don't disagree with that, it doesn't matter, it's mostly just about tradition and a purist thing. The same thing could happen on the next format. They could go back to Dolby Digital or some new company we've never heard of and then DTS HD MA fans will complain. I like tradition so I hope that doesn't happen. Anyone who's bought a DVD or Blu ray most likely knows what Dolby Digital and DTS are by now. They're recognizable names. After seeing the movie 20 years ago in theater with the Dolby name in the credits then you bought the DVD and saw it again and then now you buy it on BD and it's gone ... :( I mean I'm not going to loose any sleep over it, but still I don't see any reason for it's absence.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2012, 05:44 
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Of course, neither the Dolby Digital nor the dts tracks on any disc format are the same as those delivered in the cinema. In the case of AC-3, it's a question of bitrate — the film version is 320 kbps, which is 5/6 the bitrate on LD, 5/7 the typical DVD bitrate, & half the typical Blu-Ray bitrate. In the case of dts, it's a totally different codec. And the two lossless codecs have very little at all to do with the cinema versions of the same brand — the Dolby one is Meridian Lossless Packing rebranded, the dts version is something different again that disclord would know more about than I do.

Aside from the name on the carton, there's really nothing connecting them.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2012, 05:52 
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tomtastic wrote:
disclord wrote:
laserbite34 wrote:
The original release was Dolby and SDDS but appears they went with DTS HD MA, like most releases now.


I honestly don't understand why this matters. Since there is no home SDDS system that can be ignored, but Dolby Digital is just a sound delivery format - there is nothing special about it, unlike, say SRS, and as you know, films are mixed the same no matter what theatrical sound format they'll be released in (well, except SDDS if it was 8 channels). Since DTS HD MA is absolutely lossless, there is no drawback or chage to a soundtrack using the format. Nor do DTS HD MA or Dolby True HD cost anything for studios to use on a blu-ray. So, why does it matter?


Those were my words.

It doesn't, technically. It's more of a purist thing. If a movie was originally shown with audio in a certain format which millions of people would have gone to see and then later released on DVD with the same compression format and now on Blu ray, I would expect to see that same progression. It's a pride of ownership thing. I know all the information is there and would really be indistinguishable between the two but I'd still prefer to have that option on the disc. If they want to use DTS that's fine too (not that we have a choice if it's the only option), but I'd still like to see the Dolby format if that's how it was delivered on the print.

Cost, may actually be a factor as putting both options would be more time consuming and also take up more space, but not really if they cut out all the other junk like previews and special features which could be moved to disc 2 and dumping 6 different language tracks for a North American release. If it went over to 2 discs that would increase the cost as well.

My favorite DVD releases were ones that had both Dolby Digital and DTS on the DVD such as Gladiator (2000). You had the Dolby Digital and DTS which were both available when shown in theater and both available on the disc. These were of course few and far between as Dolby had the market on DVD and now they are reversed in the HD market, except on the short-lived HD DVD library you'll find most of them with DD.

Again, compression could be done by anyone, a third party could come in and do it, you wouldn't even know the name, it could be called Digital MAXX audio or something else you never heard of, but why not continue the tradition and keep the audio delivery true to the original? With the exception of SDDS for obvious reasons there's no reason why there shouldn't be both if they were originally shown with both. When I first heard about HD DVD and Blu ray, I sort of half-expected these formats to do that considering the vast increase in space, but that isn't the case. I think it really comes down to 1536 kb/s vs 640 and most home theater enthusiasts see that as better quality so DTS HD MA is now the standard which means most people just don't care about who's name is on the delivery.

So yeah, I don't disagree with that, it doesn't matter, it's mostly just about tradition and a purist thing. The same thing could happen on the next format. They could go back to Dolby Digital or some new company we've never heard of and then DTS HD MA fans will complain. I like tradition so I hope that doesn't happen. Anyone who's bought a DVD or Blu ray most likely knows what Dolby Digital and DTS are by now. They're recognizable names. After seeing the movie 20 years ago in theater with the Dolby name in the credits then you bought the DVD and saw it again and then now you buy it on BD and it's gone ... :( I mean I'm not going to loose any sleep over it, but still I don't see any reason for it's absence.


Thank you for providing me with an answer - although it doesn't matter to me which format is used, as long as it reproduces the original, I just didn't understand why it would matter to someone else - your answer makes it clear why it could matter to someone. That's what makes collecting fun and why I was trying to find out.

I apologize for getting who wrote the quote mixed up - the post it came from is one in a long line of posts with pics that run together and I just confused them - I'm glad you recognized the question should have been directed at you.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2012, 06:12 
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publius wrote:
Of course, neither the Dolby Digital nor the dts tracks on any disc format are the same as those delivered in the cinema. In the case of AC-3, it's a question of bitrate — the film version is 320 kbps, which is 5/6 the bitrate on LD, 5/7 the typical DVD bitrate, & half the typical Blu-Ray bitrate. In the case of dts, it's a totally different codec. And the two lossless codecs have very little at all to do with the cinema versions of the same brand — the Dolby one is Meridian Lossless Packing rebranded, the dts version is something different again that disclord would know more about than I do.

Aside from the name on the carton, there's really nothing connecting them.


Correct, they are so different they could be made by different companies - well, the theatrical APT-X100 compression system system is! And DTS Coherent Acoustics was an off-the-shelf system called ARTEC designed by Algorithmic Technologies - a company founded by the same people who invented and founded the APT corporation that DTS partnered with.

As for Dolby, besides bitrate, AC-3 theatrical uses a slightly different codec than the home version and they are not compatible with each other in any way. Dolby and DTS are such different companies now - neither does any real inventing anymore - they just buy technology from outside companies and rebrand it with their name.

I wish I could find info on Strong-Ballantyne's digital film sound system that used a synchronized LaserDisc that provided 3+ hours of 16-bit LPCM sound per side and was sync'd with SMPTE time code to the film. It was called DLS-6 - Digital Laser Sound - and was introduced around the same time as Kodak and ORC introduced CDS. DLS used an LD-V8000 as the LaserDisc player and like SDDS, had digital EQ built in as well as theater automation for special effects. Strong showed the DLS system with Universal Soldier in a test screening and had a demo film made too - its price was quite low. It just needed a Jurassic Park and Spielberg like DTS got a few years later. but, it quickly faded from view without getting a single film release and despite having truly superb specs that used no data compression at all.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2012, 07:48 
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Just to reiterate what I already said, I think it's mostly that home media has retained the names of audio delivery formats from their prior theater counterparts. The name helps sell the product. If the name doesn't matter then why do they bother putting DTS on the back of the case? Just put HD 5.1 Audio. If you went to see a film in theater and it was Dolby Digital and it is now DTS on the Blu ray and you had bought different releases over the years before on LD or DVD which had Dolby Digital, it might detract some buyers from purchasing the new release or at least cause some irritation after you read the back of the box.

Since Blu ray is still selling discs it's apparently not an issue from a marketing standpoint. But something that doesn't settle well with me is that I believe the reason DTS HD MA has taken over the market on Blu ray is that techies are looking at the specs and assume one is better than the other. They point to the bit rate and think it's better because it's higher. I thought I'd notice a difference after buying a new Blu ray player in getting the HD audio vs the core audio tracks, but I must say the difference is only slight at best between the HD and core and I can't tell at all between a TrueHD and DTS HD MA both HD formats. I can't think of any with both on the same disc to compare, just saying in general. Of course I do notice the difference between 5.1 and 7.1 which I didn't have before.

It could be that it's in some behind the scenes format war and that consumers options should be limited to one choice. I certainly haven't heard or read much information on it. It just started after Blu ray won over HD DVD and slowly Dolby Digital is being squeezed out of studio releases with the exception of Disney which I read has now announced they'll be using TrueHD going forward.

Personally, I don't hold a preference of one over the other, and I know the theater encoding on the print isn't the same as the home media, it's just that I think if they're going to advertise it on the back of the box and there are still two companies that exist that did the audio for the theater release then we should have the option for both on the disc if both were available for showing in the theater.

Ok, back to the movies, we've probably spent too much time on this already.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2012, 02:26 
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Watching Pirates: Band of Misfits on the good ol' Blu. I really haven't had any need to hook up my LD player, although I'm gettin some LDs in the mail, so I'm looking forward to that. Hysterical movie, Aardman at it's finest, as it as always been.
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