No prob, this stuff always fascinates me. 2001 was released in 70mm Cinerama with six track magnetic stereo. The 35mm release supposedly was only mono. The 70mm frame is roughly double the size of conventional 35mm with 5mm devoted to carrying the audio thus having the space for the six tracks (in a typical setup of 5 speakers behind the screen and a single surround channel at the back of the auditorium). For the original Criterion LD, they merely took the six track master and ran it through Dolby ProLogic which was the best approximation of surround for homes at the time. SO you have ostensible a stereo copy of the original six track audio that can be matrix decoded out to 4 channels. The coloring is different on this and the later MGM releases because they were from direct print scans, before digital technology was available to make corrections. When you see the film projected from a print it looks as these do, though the initial MGM release isn't very good. You'd need the later CAV edition or the 1st DVD. I'm not saying the new version is good or bad, no one know for sure which is more accurate. But the prints I've seen theatrically all look like the Criterion issue.
The new editions use a 5.1 mix that is very effective, but as has been mention on other threads on this forum, it does not retain the original panning of sound that the 70mm version had. Because they no longer had five channels across the front to deal with in this new mix, no one thought about how the sound was panned left and right to establish atmosphere. This is not in the SE DVD/BD mix nor is it in the digital presentations you can see theatrically. It's a minor quibble to some, but the effect is far more 1968 and puts you in the film's atmosphere more readily. (Because with the greater passage of time the more alien and distant the film seems, and it becomes even easier to overwhelm audiences)

2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) [ML106348]

The above pressing is same as the R1 DVD that is (out of print) and there are still a few on ebay and took me a few weeks to find, as they are listed under a odd keyword search.

I like to get the Laserdisc Dolby AC-3 version as well.

Wouldn't channels 2 and 4 be folded into the LCR mix.

Its a shame Dolby labs never gave format codes for AC-3 so that LFE.1 can be ether set as LFE.1 or Full Spectrum Mono surround, leaving the side surrounds to be formatted for left-centre / right-centre and the LCR left as it is. Then we wouldn't have all these lousy bluray discs from, The Sound of Music in dtshdma 7.1 what a waste of channels and HUH? Why didn't just put the Left-Centre / Right-Centre channels 2 and 4 back, and diagram paper with the disc to show how to re-plug the the rear back surrounds for the front extra channels and leave the other surround channels in MONO I don't see the sense of making it stereo surrounds?

Its all been one big mess since AC-3 came out its not allowed studios to present it in the exact same way as we would have listened to it at the cinema.

Most 70mm films, are ether.
Format 41: 5 screen front 1 mono surround.
Format 42: 3 screen front, 1 mono surround and LFE.1 and lastly...
Format 43: 3 screen front. 2 stereo surround channels and 1 LFE.1

Some format 42 ones on bluray have been faked with fake stereo surrounds by removing or folding the L / R fronts onto the mono surround and its totally ruined even the LFE.1 has been faked with LCR low end mixed onto it so there is no way of telling when the real LFE.1 comes in or fades out on the mix, same with the mono surrounds, no way of telling when the real discrete surround fades and out on the mix.

Also the left / right front or the centre phantom was mixed onto the discrete centre channel and it masks all the softer sounds in the mix on the centre channel. It took me less than a few seconds to spot this and whew glad I never sold the R2 DVD copies as no telling if later ones have had the same fake mix.

Don't buy these on bluray waste of money.

2010 the year we make contact (1984)
Blue Thunder (1983)

Get the early releases on DVD if you want the true discrete.

Thanks for the detailed responses. I'm assuming that the HDDVD sound mix would be the same as the Bluray mix described above.

American Beauty...... Again !!!!!!

I would say positively most certain as they came out not too soon after. Its best to look for the R1 early DVD and Laserdisc.

I have the Laserdisc version of this pressing which I have had for 16 years and its still nice to listen to the LD once in while.

2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) [ML102233]

I own the Criterion CAV so I think I'm covered. I also own the DVD and the HDDVD so I think I'll play around and do some comparisons.

First human dialouge pan is when Heywood Floyd, arrives on the space station and the woman's voice is panned to stage left with half centre sound to it.

Aries-1B stewardess: "Here you are, sir, main level please".

On the later DVD edition to bluray and no doubt HD-DVD the voice will only be heard in the centre only.

There are lots of hard to half pans on the original mix.

Check with In-70mm you never know when a near by cinema with 70mm might show 2001?
http://www.in70mm.com/now_showing/

good morning laserbite34, last night, i watched the fugitive

http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/05544/21000/Fugitive-The

my copy had light laserot, and packed a punch in the bass and surrounds

Odd when I had my pressing years ago, which I sold a few years later when I bought DVD and there was DVD release in Dolby digital 5.1, I bought and sold off the Laserdisc but not once did I notice laserot on the pressing.

Maybe I should have kept it now as risk of buying again I might buy a prone rotter pressing or then again I might not?

Can you elaborate laserbite - a few examples / mini audio review?

The 2010 BD is a totally screwed up remix of the original Dolby 70mm discrete and 2-channel Dolby Stereo mix that can be heard on the original DVD issue. Universal also completely destroyed the Dolby mix of Flash Gordon on BD and its reissue DVD - same with the reissue of Xanadu on DVD. Only the first issue of Xanadu on DVD has the original 4-track Dolby mix. The only way to hear the original mix for Flash Gordon is the DiscoVision, Widescreen LD and non-anamorphic Image Entertainment DVD release.

If the studios did to the picture what they do to sound mixes, no one would buy their discs - they seem to feel that the original sound mixers didn't know what they were doing or something - it's a disgrace.

Watched Blast from the Past just now. Enjoyable movie for the whole family
Really impressive PQ . They did a great job with these last releases.

Yeah, the Flash Gordon Blu sounds awful. Glad I kept the LD.

It sounds like dtshma train wreck!













It has many annoying fake stereo surround with dialouge mixed onto the surrounds each side there is front pan. Sounds like it was mixed in dts nero 6 makes me what to throw the remote at the TV!

I spoke to the Dolby consultant who worked on the film on FB about these issues and he (sighed) about remixes. Also its bloody toppy its just dreadful.

Don't blame DTS:Neo-6 - it's a 9-16 band (depending on the year of the receiver) Vector Cancellation matrix decoder that uses an almost exact duplicate of the PL-II decoding coefficients but can steer sounds independently in each of its individual bands - in other words, it has 9-16 logic decoders working as one so it can steer multiple sounds at once, giving a very discrete sounding presentation (Dolby PL-II Logic can only steer one dominant sound at a time) - and if a sound is panned to, say, left front, Neo-6 keeps it in left front with no leakage to the rear. Universal, for some reason, felt they needed stereo surrounds for Flash and Xanadu and The Wiz and mixed the left and right fronts into the surrounds at various points - with awful results. Some surround decoders, especially in the quad days, had modes that did that to simulate full quad, but its not natural sounding with movies.

For those who haven't heard the above titles screwed up mixes, play a good matrix Dolby Stereo film in PL-II Music mode with Panorama on and Dimension set all the way to the back - PL-II will then mix left front and right front sounds equally between front and back - you'll hear how bad it sounds and the PL-II Music example is minor compared to Universal's tampering.

On a lot of films now I sync the Original DVD or LaserDisc with the BD so I can have HD with correct audio - I'm also making CD's of LaserDisc soundtracks for syncing - like the original P/S digital sound issue of Earthquake - it's the only home video release to have the Sensurround mixed and presented correctly. The widescreen LD version is OK, but didn't use an original Sensurround Control Box to record the 4-track mix - and the anamorphic DVD sound is awful, which gives me no hope that the forthcoming BD will be anywhere near correct.

BTW, Laserbite, what does "...bloody toppy..." Mean? Too much high frequency? Also, what all/else did the Dolby Stereo consultant say? Did he have anything to say about the remixing of directional dialog into center mono? Earthquake was actually the first film to have fully mono dialog, but later Dolby made it almost mandatory because their early Dolby Stereo decoders, which were based on either the Sansui Vario-Matrix decoder (used in the very first Dolby Stereo decoders until the Tate chips became available in 1979) or the original Tate Directional Enhancement System chips, couldn't keep panned dialog from leaking audibly into the surrounds due to optical soundtrack weave and flutter. Later Tate II DES based CAT-150's and Pro-Logic CAT-150's were much better at keeping dialog out of the surrounds, but mixers had become set in their ways and claimed full-time directional dialog, like Patton or Sound Of Music or The Robe had, was unnatural sounding - and both Tom Holman and Robert Harris really lobbied against fully panned dialog. 2001 loses much of its magic with the mono dialog mix the BD release uses. But the original non-anamorphic DVD is beautiful sounding with its faithful directional mix. Of course I sync the DVD sound to the BD... Homemade DTS-6 or CineramaSound.

Love love love the Pink Panther movies! I never get tired of watching them!

And I was really saddened when Herbert Lom died last year.

His role in the films was funny that he's been tormented by the clumsy inspector Clouseau.



Blown up by a bomb and he's there's still smoke on him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLDvtpSC_98

I saw these two Pink Panthers at the local cinema.

Return of the Pink Panther, The (1975)
Pink Panther Strikes Again, The (1976)

I have got to get myself these for just for the laughs as the power of laughter is a feel good healing.

Hilarious _ The Return of the Pink Panther
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaHG1x2Bg84

Volcano (1997) [0603985] Volcano in LA??!! Good image quality and a kick-ass AC-3 track. Had the house rocking last night.

High probability [?]
So you must have an okay pressing then? No I don't have it myself? I have thought about buying it on the cheap as I have seen a few on ebay.

I have seen it before years ago on ITV1 in NICAM-725 digital Dolby pro-logic.

Absolutely no rot on my copy. Actually, this is my second copy of this. I had originally purged it from my collection as part of a sale to a friend and have subsequently repurchased. My first copy was fine too.