I generally only buy PAL discs that are music related because inferior video doesn't bother me... But lately I'm noticing how great they sound.... Are they somehow technically better.... Or is it my ears making up for poor picture????

Digital or analog discs? Digital is the same EFM CD PCM sound - analog has less background noise due to FM carriers being lower in the spectrum so CX wasn't needed as much on analog PAL discs.

thats interesting disclord... yes im running direct into my tv...so Digital sound is impossible ,unless im using a digital output through a digital receiver...correct???


i know thats a dumb question...howver Ive always been confused regarding switching audio tracks ,to choose languages for example, yet im not running the machine through a digital system......

The RCA outputs will send out digital or analog, if your player does both. But unlike NTSC discs, PAL discs can only have digital sound or analog sound, not both at the same time. So you need to check your disc jackets to see if they are analog or digital. Analog discs haven't been issued since the early to mid-80's. if its a digital disc, the players built in DA Converter will convert the signal to analog and output it on the RCA jacks and the pure PCM on the Toslink optical or coax digital jack.

I haven't noticed a systematic difference in sound quality between PAL and NTSC discs, although Disclord's observation about the lower requirement for noise reduction in the case of analogue sound PAL is interesting.

However, I do have one observation. My experience of that the listening experience on PAL discs is dominated by the rot status of those discs, rather than theoretical considerations.

A lot of PAL discs were made by PDO in Blackburn, Lancashire. That was a terrible factory, for CDs as well as LDs. The rot statistics on LDDB don't reflect it, but that's only because those stats don't take the population of discs in collections into account when comparing factories. It's a shame, because they churned out lots of unique stuff, especially music.

It's surprising how watchable and listenable a even a badly rotted analogue PAL disc can be though. Even discs with chunks of reflective material missing round the edge, streaks of oxidation clearly visible going across the disc et cetera can be bearable. It's like a worn VHS tape.

But the key is the word analogue. When it's a digital sound PAL disc that's rotted, it's dead. The sound is unbearable. Even moderate rot seems to kill it off entirely.

That's my experience so far.

A lot of gold discs have black "smearing" at the edge of the disc .. Is that rot??

Since you say gold discs, I'm assuming you mean PDO made PAL discs since gold coloring was never used on a regular basis with US discs except for 5-inch CD-V's and only in Japan for rental LaserDisc's once Japanese law was changed to allow rentals.

I have some DiscoVision discs that have gotten an almost burnt look to small sections at the outer edges - I think its simply oxidation of the reflective material used - any metal that could provide the specified reflectivity could be used for LaserDisc's, and to prevent oxidative damage to the reflective coating from any water in the originally used Pilobond glue (I know MCA and Pioneer used Pilobond to glue the two halves of the discs into one, but I don't know if they later changed glue when rot became a major problem) or moisture that the disc plastic naturally absorbs from the environment (the PMMA LD's used was not hydrophobic - that's how the double sided disc came about - the rigid, single sided, discs MCA/Philips had standardized on for the aborted 1977 launch absorbed moisture and umbrella warped - an MCA Disco-Vision engineer realized that coating the reflective layer with a waterproof coating and then gluing two discs together not only protected the reflective layer from the glue and moisture {and sandwiched the info in the middle of the disc, protecting it from scratches, unlike a CD where a label side scratch will totally ruin the disc} but the tendency for the two disc halves to warp in opposite directions would be cancelled - plus, by measuring each 1x disc and finding the disc's center of gravity, the two halves could he bonded together with their centers of gravity 180 degrees apart, canceling jitter and the wow a single disc would otherwise exhibit since the discs are never the exact same thickness over the entire side.)

Ok, so after all that, I think the dark spots are simply areas where the vapor barrier coating wasn't applied thick enough at the edges and they are absorbing moisture and oxidizing. Also, PDO discs and CD's had a tendency to, for some reason, contain high amounts of sulfur which caused the reflective layer to darken, depending on the metal used.

Although the US Technidisc plant was bad, PDO Blackburn was truly terrible and Philips never seemed to get a handle on it.

Gold coloured discs were sometimes produced in Hong Kong as well. I have a few.

Yes PDO produced some of the worst quality CDs and laserdiscs in the business. I had to send back literally box loads of 80's/early 90's CDs that had bronzed over and almost all the laserdiscs produced by them have some form of defects. I think the bottom line is if an NTSC version (not produced by PDO) exists I'd rather pay the extra for it than buy the PAL version which is more often than not defective.

So, this oxidizing.... Is it effecting the picture and/or sound???

Is it that dumb a question??! I know it looks god aweful, but does that black smudge around the ring effect the playback??

I've seen discs that looked liked the surface of the moon - all blistered and bubbled yet played ok.
Other discs looked perfect to the naked eye but didn't play at all.
A poorly manufactured disc can affect sound and/or picture depending on where the damage is.
There is really only one way to find out - test play it.

Personally if I knew a disc was badly bronzed or turning black I wouldn't buy it for it is obviously badly manufactured and on its way out.
That is why perfect copies of known high probability rotters often fetch good prices.

I have three copies of Rush - A Show of Hands. Two NTSC copies, one with the extra track, plus a PAL copy with the extra track.
Because there are no copy restrictions on LD digital outputs (no PROH message flags up) I've been able to import all three into my computer as digital audio. What I was checking out was why the NTSC editions had a handful of clicks on my copies whereas the PAL disc sounded clean throughout.
What I found was that the audio on all three had been mastered differently. The clicks I had heard were individual samples that had gone awry - possibly before the mastering stage. They're not a real problem unless you're really anal about such things. Vinyl is almost never click-free.
If I recall correctly one NTSC version had been mastered relatively quietly, perhaps hovering around -12dB. This meant that any clicks peaking at 0dB would seem rather loud. I think that the re-issue was mastered louder, but as I'm unable to re-import it at the moment (my sound card with the optical in has failed) I can't be absolutely sure.
The PAL audio was healthy without going to full-scale deflection (0dB) which is the preferred mastering level for most of the audiophile producers who have expressed a preference. There are many CDs nowadays that are "saturated" (I know, this term doesn't really apply to digital audio) but what I mean is that the audio is compressed. It's a subtle effect but this kind of mastering (or "brick-walling") lends a harsh quality to the overall sound.
I think that one point I'm trying to make is that there is an optimum range of levels for mastering that give the most pleasing results and a disc mastered within this optimal range (not necessarily PAL) is likely to be regarded as "better".
The main point I'm making is that the audio on PAL editions will, like the video, be mastered differently.
Technically better? Maybe, maybe not. Different? Cautiously I would say "Yes". Are your ears making up for the poorer video? That could play a part too.